[quote]rrjc5488 wrote:
[quote]UrbanSavage wrote:
[quote]smokotime wrote:
[quote]UrbanSavage wrote:
smokotime, I won’t concede that he has more leeway in his training now and thus it’s a better time for him to train in gear, in fact I’d argue that training incorrectly now will create tons of bad habits that will seriously fuck him up later on. It would be far better for him to get stronger now, find out everything that works for him and make as much natural progress in strength as he can before he starts changing things and altering his training that heavily.
I’m not opposed to gear at all and I don’t hate gear or something, but it’s a mistake to devote so much training to it now. If YOU won’t concede that training in gear now and changing training methods to increase geared numbers as opposed to raw numbers now is a mistake, I’d say you’re biased or something else is preventing you from giving advice on the issue. [/quote]
An equipped lift is different to a raw lift. To quote you,[quote]in fact I’d argue that training incorrectly now will create tons of bad habits that will seriously fuck him up later on.[/quote]. Now is a good time to start building a base of both raw strength and equipped skills. This is something that he can use for the rest of his lifting career. You will note that I told him not to change his training drastically, and to be conseervative and patient. He will continue getting stronger during this time so long as he is sensible.
If, however, he were to follow your advice then he would wait until he was close to elite, then in all likelyhood he would not keep getting stronger while learning the equipment. I am yet to meet anyone elite raw who didn’t have their raw lifts go backwards and get frustrated when they finally tried to learn equipment.
Meanwhile, I have trained and trained with dozens of beginners and intermediates without having a single one get weaker in either.
I am not saying go full gear-whore. I’m presenting a rational and conservative viewpoint and I’m doing my best to back it up. My only bias is trying to save people some trouble. My mediocre lifts and my fed are open to anyone who can be bothered to click on my hub. I’ve got nothing to hide, no secret agenda to push.
It comes down to this: if you honestly believe that at some stage he’ll be competing in equipment, he can invest in it now or down the track. If he does it now, he doesn’t get as strong raw as quickly. If he does it later, he runs the risk of getting weaker and missing out on years of experience in equipment. In the long run, an extra 6 months or even a year means nothing so long as you keep improving.[/quote]
I don’t see any issue with getting some gear and training in it from time to time to get technique down. I’m just saying that if he changes his entire emphasis to lifting in gear now, his raw training will take a hit and he’ll be spending a ton of time working the top end of the bench and squat that are great for gear but he’ll have huge imbalances lifting raw.
I’m honestly not making this up to support my argument, I’ve NEVER heard of a geared lifter who was worth anything whose raw numbers didn’t suffer significantly as a result. If anyone could provide a source for someone primarily known for lifting in gear who can support what’s being said in this thread, I’d appreciate it. [/quote]
The thing about GEARED lifters… is you know, they lift… IN GEAR. Most couldn’t give a shit what their raw lifts are if they compete in geared competitions.
As for lifters who are worth anything… Mark Bell benched 854 @ 275 in competition. Today in training, he did 495 for 5 reps and 545 for 3 reps off a 3 board, raw.
There’s your example.[/quote]
Last February, my wife squated 181x5 raw (she competes at 114). Since then she has entered 4 geared competitions totalling elite for not only her weight class but the weight class above her own.
This last weekend she squated 205x6 raw. I’d say the gear hasn’t exactly hurt her progress.