I think East Germany had something like that at one point too.
There are also more than a few people over 100 who survived COVID.
It’s unreasonable to say we can’t compare countries numbers unless they all have tested the same amount. It is much easier now to get a test done than it was initially that much is for sure.
To dismiss the US doing poorly in comparison to other countries merely because not everyone has tested the same amount of people doesn’t make any sense. If that’s the case countries shouldn’t compare on anything unless it’s an exact match. You can’t say we really have more people dying from obesity than Japan…they don’t have nearly as many obese people. Maybe they aren’t testing for it.
I think it’s hard to ignore the evidence that the US hasn’t handled Covid well from a leadership and societal perspective. But if we just decide to toss out all the numbers then sure the US is doing just as well and maybe better than other countries. No reason to assume otherwise.
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I think what’s most relevant is how many people are in ICU or dead, the other numbers don’t mean much because most people are asymptomatic and even with “hospitalizations” you can be held overnight for observation even if nothing is seriously wrong. With a for-profit medical system that is even more likely.
Look at Belarus, they did nothing about the virus and acted like it didn’t exist, the president said that it wasn’t an issue for them. Is it? We don’t know because there is no data.
Unless the medical system is really overwhelmed in a particular place, I don’t think there is really much use for shutdowns, lockdowns, and arbitrary restrictions based on half-baked ideas. It’s just delaying the inevitable and making simple things frustrating for no reason. The focus should be on protecting the sick and elderly and especially nursing home residents, anything else is a lost cause and an excuse for tyranny as we see in places like Australia and New Zealand.
What do you think about Australia and New Zealand? It’s the complete opposite of what most of the US did, but is it better overall?
Undoubtedly… Yes
Australia is ranked higher than the USA in terms of our democracy. Our government isn’t tyrannical, though we are a nanny state.
NZ doesn’t have a tyrannical government, they have a very progressive leader who is concerned with the potential rammifications stemming from covid. There have been more signs of authoritarian action within the Trump administration compared to Aus/NZ.
Granted I do wish the Australian government would stop making ridiculous rules/regulations for everything… They’re anti-fun 
Benjamin Franklin once said: “Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.”
Slavery is freedom and war is peace too.
Did he ever lock down a city? Looks like he let BLM and antifa get away with a lot of shit.
And by that measure the US is doing horribly though. Although I still think without long term issues being known the number of cases definitely matter as well. My larger point was that dismissing all data like Pat is trying to do (because the data makes his favorite dude look horrific) doesn’t make any sense. It’s merely being said by him to protect our government.
I don’t know what you mean by better overall? We have about 5.3 million more cases than Australia and I believe around 167,000 more deaths if the numbers I looked up are accurate.
That’s not exactly what happened.
Who did they get it from?
Respectfully, I’d like to agree to disagree regarding the federal government in power for Aus/NZ.
Exactly, and the people they got it from… where did THEY get it from? It’s been a while since NZ has recorded a case of covid-19, if this is a response to community based transmission they could be in trouble.
NZ is in a really good place, it’s a smart idea to try stamp it out if realistically possible (and for them it probably is)
Economically speaking/impacts on mental health… though Sweden isn’t doing so well, which somewhat debunks much of the anti-lockdown rhetoric.
Not really following everything in this thread, but I just spoke to my uncle who’s teaching in Venezuela. He said a few people at work/in the area have gotten sick and then ended up dying lately. They’re not being tested, so it’s not known if it’s COVID.
So, let’s assume what NZ is reporting is factually correct. 4 people have tested positive for COVID-19. They perform contact tracing and all that jazz and 4 more people are discovered to be positive. We now have a total of 8 cases. This justifies a 72 hour complete lockdown? What happens when they recover and a few other cases are found? Reverse to lockdown again? Get fucking real.
#FlattenTheCurve
It could end up being an issue, but again the people with no symptoms are not very likely to have long term health complications. The other thing to consider for the long term is how many people will end up getting infected, dying, etc., over the next few years. It’s impossible to know one way or another at this point and I’m certainly not suggesting that this was one of Trump’s brilliant schemes, but it’s possible that like Sweden the US will have the virus under control due to herd immunity long before more cautious countries do. It’s still fucked up the way it was managed, but it’s possible that it won’t be so bad in the end compared to places that lock down when there are 4 cases.
I mean in terms of the impacts of lockdowns (and these are actual lockdowns) and the drastic limits of freedom. Remember when China locked down Wuhan and the media was talking about how they don’t respect human rights and so on? It’s not just China.
Yet to be determined, but my guess is that someone must have traveled outside the country and brought it back.
Not true, while a lot of nursing home residents ended up dying due to some early mistakes the virus is under control now, hardly any more deaths. Also the economy isn’t doing so bad, GDP is down by about 8% while Canada is down by 15% and the US 32%. We went over this a few days ago.
Seems like if anything the initial lockdown would have to be extended to 14 days because anyone else who breathed the same air as any of them could develop symptoms in that time. Then if there are enough new cases by the end of that period it might need to extend again because some of them would have been in contact with others at work or grocery stores. We will see where it goes, but it’s easier to get people to accept a 72 hour lockdown than it is to tell them from the start it will be 14 days at the minimum.
The only solution is for everyone to live in a plastic bubble.
Quick questions:
- What country has a 4% unemployment rate?
- In what country can you go to sporting events with packed crowds and no social distancing?
- What country has a mortality rate of .45 per 100k?
The answer to all of the above is a country in which you can now go about your life closer to the way you lived it pre-COVID AND more safely than here in the United States.
For reference, the U.S. has a mortality rate from COVID of 50 per 100k, so they are doing about 100 times better than we are keeping people alive.
I know it’s been told to you before, but New Zealand isn’t in lockdown. Auckland, NZ is in lockdown. Yes, I’d trade decisive, effective action that creates a better economic outcome that also happens to be safer for what’s going on here. Granted, NZ being an island has some advantages, but still…
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New Zealand, a country of earnest people who pride themselves on intelligence and good government, took the theory of virus eradication through force to an extent not seen in any developed country. It went full barbarism, pitched by a suave politician with a charming accent. All was well. Now barbarism is back again.
Well we don’t even know if true herd immunity exists. But yes it’s possible that we end up better off than other countries. Just zero reason to think that right now at all. Right now our best bet at looking good in comparison to other countries is Brazil passing us.
Well I don’t view masks and social distancing as limits on freedom at all. If masks are then pants are as well. I would have preferred we acted more aggressively before it took hold across the nation but that’s with the help of hindsight. But we’ve said we can’t shutdown or do anything because think about the economy and it’s quite possible that if we had acted stronger the economy would have recovered much quicker and a lot of that economic pain (and Covid deaths) could have been avoided
To Kiwi’s, does she have an accent?
If it doesn’t then the vaccine won’t be much use either so there will be no choice except to go on with life knowing that you could get sick at any time. Kind of like we have already done forever I suppose.
I’m not even talking about that, look at what is going on in NZ and Australia. I think mandatory masks outside is fucking retarded though.
America’s problem is that the economy took a bit hit and there are still lots of cases, essentially the worst of both worlds. I suppose the thinking is that not much can be done about the virus, but at least the economy can be saved.
To the guy who wrote the article she sure does.
Everyone has an accent of some sort, it just might sound normal where you live.
I do try not to get too belligerent about my own belief that we should be wearing masks and social distancing in public. However, am I less of a good person than the individual who went even further and was wearing a pair of goggles and gloves? And even though the “like the flu” stuff annoys me (don’t hear that much anymore) it does in fact kill people. If Covid is ever defeated should we wear masks to try to prevent the loss of life to the flu? If someone is willing to wear a mask for even the flu, are those who refrain less noble? What is the cut off in lives?
It’s like the old question about how much is too much to fold into the price of a an automobile in an attempt to save even more lives.