Why are you against masks? Serious question.
Obviously, you’ve been told that it’s a “conservative” position for some reason.
Why are you all fighting tooth and nail against a minor inconvenience that saves other peoples lives?
Even if it’s let’s say just 50% effective it still has a massive cumulative effect on the reproduction factor of the virus.
Ok, anti-lockdown has some tenuous “but the economy” arguments, but why not masks? That’s misanthropic as fuck.
Further information:
“There are currently no studies that have evaluated the effectiveness and potential adverse effects of universal or targeted continuous mask use by health workers in preventing transmission of SARS-CoV-2.”
“The likely disadvantages of the use of mask by healthy people in the general public include:
• potential increased risk of self-contamination due to the manipulation of a face mask and subsequently touching eyes with contaminated hands;(48, 49)
• potential self-contamination that can occur if non-medical masks are not changed when wet or soiled. This can create favourable conditions for microorganism to amplify;
• potential headache and/or breathing difficulties, depending on type of mask used”
Did you just post a study that supports wearing a mask to support your opinion on not wearing a mask?
I am not “against” masks. I am actually trying to make a nuanced point about the effectiveness of them and the false sense of security that it seems to give people when there is little to no evidence it actually works. That’s all. But like normal, nuance is nearly impossible these days. Disagreement must be met with hostility and denouncement.
Some people have to be internet bad-asses and go strait for the ad hominems because they don’t bother with evidence or facts.
I wear a mask when necessary. It is only a mild inconvenience and if it means opening up, I would tattoo one on my face.
What I have a problem with is the myth that it actually protects a healthy person from getting it. There is very little evidence to suggest, mask alone, does anything.
There is even some evidence that ‘mask wearing’ can actually trap diseases and increase the likely hood of spread. And if you are around somebody who is sick, even with the mask and nothing else, the virus can enter the eyes just as easily.
Asymptomatic spread is the contentious point, but even according the the WHO’s own document, that asymptomatic people are much less likely to spread any virus, including covid, than an actively sick person.
A mask will not stop aerosol-ed virus, period. It’s like trying to hold back a flood with a chain-link fence.
In a healthcare setting, in addition with other PPE, masks very effective and critical, if it is a N95 or better type mask and is changed frequently with a clean one.
In the day to day life, especially if somebody is reusing a cloth mask that is removed frequently and put, God know’s where and reused it may actually make things worse.
So I am not against masks and I follow @Californiagrown 's notion that it’s better safe than sorry in most cases.
I am against the weaponization and dogma of mask use. It’s a false sense of security and there is no evidence to suggest it works outside of close contact with a sick person, in which case, you also need gloves and a face shield at minimum and no face touching of anykind.
Pat likes to point out Biden’s cognitive decline. Pat has cognitive issues as well. When he reads an article he draws conclusions that are the opposite of the article’s conclusions. Every pat post should be labeled fake news.
The lock downs didn’t work. Economic despair is the biggest killer in the world.
Would you rather risk covid or live in Somolia? People are already desperate, people are already suffering big time from unemployment, the closing of small business (40%!) hunger, etc.
Closing again will just cause another spike in re-opening.
If the death rate were even near 1% I could see reason for more fear, but it’s .26% and that’s among everybody. Remove post 75 year old people and the rate is much lower.
It’s not the extreme emergency we were told it was when we were being told ‘millions will die’. It was a gross over-reaction with incredibly painful consequences.
Maybe millions will eventually die, but it will take a few years and with better treatments already and an eventual vaccine, the death rate will drop significantly.
Life is full of risks and covid is not an abnormally high risk for most people.
We protect the most vulnerable, provide flexibility for those at higher risks and we move on.
It will definitely reduce the odds of infection. There was a severe shortage of N95 masks a few months back when cases in Canada were at their peak, healthcare workers had nothing but surgical masks and had to deal directly with infected patients. Although many did get infected, most did not However, in nursing homes the residents were not given masks and in many homes nearly all were infected. Kind of looks like the masks had something to do with it, considering how many people were not aware of being in contact with any infected people but still got it.
There are studies on that for the flu and surgical mask are approximately 80% effective. If you are concerned that surgical masks don’t provide adequate protection then get N95 masks.
I bet if you tattooed MS-13 on your face then most people wouldn’t bother you about a mask.
Yes they did. See Italy. They’re a blunt instrument of disease control that’s been working for the last seven hundred years. We can discuss collateral damage from it, but lockdowns work, like all blunt instruments do.
How exactly?
Data from various states that have reopened has shown that you cannot force people to spend money in bars and restaurants. It’s not the lockdown that’s hurting the economy, it’s the virus.
Where are you getting these numbers from?
Kill them off through Obama’s death panels?
There’s a difference between systemic risk to society as a whole and risk to an individual, namely in the scale of the adverse consequences.
Starvation, war, disease. He does have a point with that. If everyone in the US got COVID it still wouldn’t be half as bad as places like Venezuela or Somalia.
It’s freakin nuts how quick people who were dead set against O-care and health care rationing jumped on the “well they’re gonna die soon anyways” train.
Blindingly fast.
I would need to see those studies that show an 80% efficacy. The links I provided provided contrary evidence to the notion that a healthy person wearing a mask would be less likely to get sick from a sick person not wearing one. This does not include healthcare workers wearing full PPE with an N95 mask.
Further, non-conscientious use of masks, meaning inconsistent, uncareful, use and reuse of masks can actually detrimental and increase one’s risk of getting any virus.
Hence, there is no evidence that masks, alone on a healthy person will prevent that person from getting sick.
The mask does protect an infected person from potentially spreading the disease. But it’s not clear, with regards to covid, that asymptomatic, pre-symptomatic, post-symptomatic carriers are as contagious as symptomatic patients are. As a matter of fact, current evidence suggests that while asymptomatic carriers can spread the disease, the possibility of asymptomatic spread, while not impossible, has a very low probability.
This is different then what we were originally told. We were told that asymptomatic spreaders was the number 1 threat. Now we know, according to the WHO and CDC, that asymptomatic spread, while possible, is pretty low.
Hence, my argument, based on evidence presented so far, remains. No evidence that casual mask wearing by the average person will do anything to prevent someone from getting sick. Not to be confused with a sick person wearing a mask from spreading it.
I am not terribly worried about the inconvenience. I am extremely worried as to how quickly we were willing to give up our Constitutional Rights, based on what turned out to be misinformation. It’s proving all to difficult to get those rights back… Unless of course, you violate the rules to protest for BLM. It’s hypocritical and obscenely obvious that there are two sets of rules. One for far-leftist far-left protesters for BLM, while being mostly white and everybody else.
We have been lied to, it’s obvious and has cost us dearly. But as long as you riot, kill people and burn down poor people’s housing and businesses, it fine. Rules for the, but not for me. Unacceptable!
Which ones?
Italy was overrun all at once, first. Second, having spent a good while in Italy, it was no shock how it spread so fast. There is a lot of hugging, kissing and touching in Italy. It’s just the way their culture is. Any human contagion that Italy is not prepared for will always hit really hard.
Italy did report that the latest tests of the virus indicate that it had weakened a great deal, a study that was duplicated by UPMC in the U.S. Perhaps it’s herd immunity at this point plus a mutation. Virologists from both Italy and UPMC reported seeing a down-grating in the severity of the disease. Now, those are their studies, I cannot speak for how wide-spread this supposed weakening is. They have theories, but no concrete evidence as to why.
I really don’t think I need to explain this to you. The poorest countries in the world have the highest disease rate and highest death rates in the world from disease. They do not have normal sanitation, they drink nasty water, when they can. They are hungry, they are dirty and while they are very vulnerable to disease, they may just as well die from stray bullets or left over landmines.
You cannot force people to spend money they do not have. There are over 35 million unemployed (myself included) due to the virus. The stimulus helped a little, but with that many people unemployed, plus there is a fair percentage of people afraid of going out, the despair is directly linked to the virus. Be it fear or lack of money, people are going on a crazy spending spree. (Which, ironically, provides tremendous opportunities for those with means to get once in a life time deals).
From the CDC and the WHO. I provided the WHO link, I got the mortality rate from the CDC, but did not provide the link. I think the estimate is actually to high. If you exclude elderly, diabetes, the morbidly obesed, and\ or folks with serious cardio pulminary pre-conditions, the number would be far, far less.
I get that, but we have been lied to. How do I know? Look at what was being said in March and now. Plus, when the ‘experts’ excused the riots, violence and protests, then I realized that they do not believe it’s an existential threat. If it was the death sentence they said it was, they would have stopped the protests cold. Otherwise, they would be culpable for thousands of deaths, if it were that serious.
They know it’s not. It’s politics. It’s a way to keep people dependent of government and create despair. It you are desperate, you need the government… But the mask fell when 10’s of thousands of people were allowed to congregate and covid wasn’t even a minor consideration. Media went so far as to say that it was impossible for increased cases to be linked to protests.
Sorry a gathering of 10’s of thousands of people, in close proximity for days is either a threat for spreading covid, or keeping others from the same rights is a political tactic. If thousands were going to die from covid and they were certain, the protests and subsequent riots and murder would have been stopped.
The first amendment for instance? Look what it says, then look what types of things were prohibited.
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”
Go to the gym, you will be arrested. Jewish community in NY had the gates to their worship space welded shut by NYC. Could not even mow your own lawn in Michigan… Still cannot go to church in many places… Couple in Kentucky were slapped with ankle monitors by the police, because the mother tested positive for covid. Churches in CA can gather up to 25%, but they are not allowed to sing or pray in the church, but rioting and burning down buildings, murder, assaulting police officers are perfectly fine.
Basically, it boils down to this. If you have a problem with the government, go burn down people’s houses and businesses, assult the police with fireworks, rocks and frozen water bottles and you will get what you want. If that doesn’t work, throw Molotov cocktails into poor people’s stuff and the mayor and governor will protect you and give you what you want.
If I knew that’s all it took to get change, I would have burnt down a government building a few years ago… Now I must evaluate my targets. I need to burn down an old folks home, or low income housing, then I will get the much needed changes the community needs.
Fuck no I am not going to hurt anybody or do violence! I know facetiousness does not translate well on the internet. I am just loathing the fact that such tactics work…
OK, given your study of rights and stuff, what do you think of this-
https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/historyquarantine.html
And specifically this:
I’m a bit confused. I was under the impression that if you were wearing a mask, you were safe from coronavirus, right? Please correct me if I am wrong.
Exactly right… I typically make it a personal policy to refrain from engaging in arguments with idiots, especially online, but sometimes I have a momentary lapse of self-control.
Wrong. Italy was not overrun at all. The US is overrun, Italy was never overrun. This is why people say lockdowns work.
Not even possible. Why? Because Italy was not overrun. Also, herd immunity takes a long time.
According to what pat posted, you are. He doesn’t read well.
So, with that being said, if you are wearing a mask, and I am not, you’re protected, correct? What is there to worry about?
If you got a vaccine and I did not (no, I am not an anti-vaxxer by any means), the same premise would apply. You would be safe, yes?