When Adding Back an Old Exercise

Training Bodybuilding
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I’ve noticed that during an extended layoff, the strength disappears much more quickly than size. And I can get into new PR territory, size-wise, using the same lifts as before, even though I haven’t yet beaten my old PR lifts.

The weights I’m lifting now are mostly roughly the same, and in some exercises MUCH less, than my all-time PR’s, even though my LBM is now 15-20 lbs higher. And I never varied my exercises too much. So I built new mass - using the same lifts as before (with essentially the same style/type of training) but with lighter weights.

This is my situation, due to long layoffs or whatever (mostly from serious injury, etc). I don’t recommend it though, because it sucks going to the gym (after a layoff), with the semi-respectable appearance of a guy who at least probably lifts weights (5’10"/204 lbs/17" arms/34" waist) … and then proceeding to hit failure on the 6th rep of bench press with a staggering 165 lbs on the bar… which sadly has happened to me! (while the “much smaller” guy on the bench next to me, having just worked up to 365, has this strange look of disbelief, lol)

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[quote]fizisyst wrote:
I’ve noticed that during an extended layoff, the strength disappears much more quickly than size. And I can get into new PR territory, size-wise, using the same lifts as before, even though I haven’t yet beaten my old PR lifts.

The weights I’m lifting now are mostly roughly the same, and in some exercises MUCH less, than my all-time PR’s, even though my LBM is now 15-20 lbs higher. And I never varied my exercises too much. So I built new mass - using the same lifts as before (with essentially the same style/type of training) but with lighter weights.

This is my situation, due to long layoffs or whatever (mostly from serious injury, etc). I don’t recommend it though, because it sucks going to the gym (after a layoff), with the semi-respectable appearance of a guy who at least probably lifts weights (5’10"/204 lbs/17" arms/34" waist) … and then proceeding to hit failure on the 6th rep of bench press with a staggering 165 lbs on the bar… which sadly has happened to me! (while the “much smaller” guy on the bench next to me, having just worked up to 365, has this strange look of disbelief, lol)

[/quote]

Failing at 6x165 on bench at 204lb and 17in arms?? That’s ridiculous lol. And you’re not doing what a lot of natural pro’s seem to end up doing, using lighter weight but with intensity techniques, much better form and whatnot? You’re lifting the same way as before?

I think my arms were 13.5in when I was benching that much :frowning:

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This was “normal” form - PL setup, Touch and go, etc. Admittedly, I was always weak on the BP. My PR prior to this was only 230 X 6 (but that was at the same BW!). Not long after this I ditched the BP, and that’s another story, but I was just using that as an example.

I think there’s a spectrum. At one end, you have the natural athletes - from an evolutionary perspective, their bodies are actually more efficient, in that they can add a ton of strength with minimal mass gain. Think sprinters, gymnasts, lightweight O-lifters/Powerlifters.

At the other end are the guys who’s bodies will (or “must”) add mass, even with the slightest strength increase. Perhaps because their CNS is less efficient, or something to that effect. This is far less efficient from a survival standpoint, but it’s great for bodybuilding. Take someone who is naturally weak, and you can end up with some big bodybuilders who are relatively weak (at least for their size). Take someone who has these kind of genetics, but is also very strong naturally, and you can end up with Ronnie Coleman!

I’m in this group (but weak). To use BP as an example (from back when I was using it - and looking at my logs I can actually verify this) - for every pound I’ve added to my best set of ~10 on BP, I’ve gained a pound of muscle - yeah, ridiculous, a 1:1 ratio. Not a very good candidate here for ever being able to put up double BW, lol! Sadly though, I’ve had to fight hard for every strength increase - so I’m far from “huge”.

Also, when I started out I was very weak, so by the time I had worked up to “average-person” strength, I had well above average size. I’ve even spent years doing strength-only or relative-strength programs (never exceeding 3 reps, long rest periods, etc) - to actually TRY getting stronger without getting bigger, with minimal results. Ie, if I was eating enough I would get stronger AND bigger, if not my strength would simply plateau.

24

[quote]fizisyst wrote:
This was “normal” form - PL setup, Touch and go, etc. Admittedly, I was always weak on the BP. My PR prior to this was only 230 X 6 (but that was at the same BW!). Not long after this I ditched the BP, and that’s another story, but I was just using that as an example.

I think there’s a spectrum. At one end, you have the natural athletes - from an evolutionary perspective, their bodies are actually more efficient, in that they can add a ton of strength with minimal mass gain. Think sprinters, gymnasts, lightweight O-lifters/Powerlifters.

At the other end are the guys who’s bodies will (or “must”) add mass, even with the slightest strength increase. Perhaps because their CNS is less efficient, or something to that effect. This is far less efficient from a survival standpoint, but it’s great for bodybuilding. Take someone who is naturally weak, and you can end up with some big bodybuilders who are relatively weak (at least for their size). Take someone who has these kind of genetics, but is also very strong naturally, and you can end up with Ronnie Coleman!

I’m in this group (but weak). To use BP as an example (from back when I was using it - and looking at my logs I can actually verify this) - for every pound I’ve added to my best set of ~10 on BP, I’ve gained a pound of muscle - yeah, ridiculous, a 1:1 ratio. Not a very good candidate here for ever being able to put up double BW, lol! Sadly though, I’ve had to fight hard for every strength increase - so I’m far from “huge”.

Also, when I started out I was very weak, so by the time I had worked up to “average-person” strength, I had well above average size. I’ve even spent years doing strength-only or relative-strength programs (never exceeding 3 reps, long rest periods, etc) - to actually TRY getting stronger without getting bigger, with minimal results. Ie, if I was eating enough I would get stronger AND bigger, if not my strength would simply plateau.
[/quote]

^ be good to see a photo for context.

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411×548 18.3 KB

Pics from 1 year ago (don’t have any recent - about 10 lbs heavier now).

These may look skewed, because I have a truly GIGANTIC head!

Keep in mind that I’m 5’10", 209 lbs in these pics - and my weakest bodyparts (IMO) are back and quads (quads cause I hadn’t been doing any lower body work except DL’s in a LONG time due to knee problems - I was just starting to work some squats back into my training).

Some lifts at the time (to failure or very near):

Floor press: 235 X 2 (PR, had been working on this for awhile)

Bench: 175 X 10 (just threw this in for a couple workouts to test it out, all-time PR was 260 X 1, after training Westside-style for 6+ months, and weighing ~225!)

BB Incline (Low, ~30 deg): 165 X 8

Squat: 225 X 5 (see above; all-time PR’s though: 345 X 8, 410 X 1, raw/high-bar/DEEP - perhaps the one area where my leverages aren’t naturally shitty - unfortunately my knees are!)

Deadlift (PR’s): Pre- back injuries: 385 X 6, 405 X 3; Touch and go, belt and straps.
Post-injury(s): eventually got up to 425 X 1, no belt, hook grip.
After 2 years of training (age 14-16, granted, still maturing), that included squats and bent rows, I first learned about Deadlifts. Could not budge 225 one inch off the ground when I first tried!

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1824×1544 385 KB

The triceps (17") that can’t bench 250, LOL.

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2736×3648 1.68 MB

Let the flames fly!

Holy missing lats Batman! Yes, I’m working on this now. Chins built my biceps ok, but did nothing for lats. Only now am I finally using pulldowns, various rows, rack DL’s, etc, and I think I’ve FINALLY figured out how to actually stretch & contract my back!

Physique is nothing to write home about, but still, do these strength levels seem off? Am I super-unusual (terrible leverages, etc), or is it all in my head?

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^ what kind of serious injuries if you don’t mind?

If you have technique queries I suggest you post in Meat’s thread and get him to help you out.

Physique critique is not my area, but you look like you are arm/shoulder dominant size-wise relative to chest.

edit: don’t worry about being flamed, you seem pretty legit with your queries. Check out the T-cell roundtables in the areas you want to target for interesting info, and don’t be afraid to directly ask questions of the guys getting legit results.

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Also, the pics may be irrelevant without a “before” for comparison. I don’t have a pic, but:

Age 15: ~5’7", ~115 lbs (wrestled at 103 as a freshman! Then started lifting)
Pics above: 5’10", 209 lbs

So I’ve made some progress. And yes, I think gains in size/strength are intimately related. But a strength increase of X may yield much different size increases for different people.

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Sorry if I hijacked this thread, didn’t mean to!

Injuries?

Lower back injury from conv DL - limped around for 6 months, then started over with the empty bar. always used sumo’s prior, much heavier too and w/ no problems. I’m not built for DL at all - can’t even come CLOSE to keeping my back flat at the bottom conv style - should have known better! Know your body, and be careful of taking advice from “experts”.

Re-injured back on squats 2 years later, hit failure and had the safety pins set about 1 notch too low. Stupid!

Dislocated patella (wrestling), ~minor re-injuries several times. Later squatted 400+, despite always being limited by chronic knee pain on and off (both knees even? - they just suck).

No major upper body injuries, but joint pain seems to creep up on me pretty easily as the weights go up (small joints?, barely 6.5" wrist). Sometimes I feel like I’m always taking 3 steps forward, 2.9 steps back!

I think my technique is very solid on everything now. Training much smarter now - and injury wise, I’ve been feeling super lately, and am slowly making progress (knock on wood).

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how old are you now? I looked in my logs out of curiosity and I think the ratio of bench weight:lean body mass gain is about 5+lb:1lb 1:1 would be ridiculous lol