[quote]Scotacus wrote:
Who brought in IFBB?? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>[/quote]
Who are you talking to with all this? I brought up the IFBB to say that that shouldn’t dictate somebody’s definition of what bodybuilding is though I do like to see those super human monsters.
EDIT: OK, nevermind
[quote]Der Candy wrote:
Bricknyce wrote:
Boris Kleine does use HST but he does use a split if I recall correctly. Bryan Haycock once had a posting on his site of Boris’s training schedule. It had high frequency but was still not a TBT routine.
The title of this thread is “What Program Worked Best For YOU”. I guess the words “working best” refer to what worked best for reaching your PERSONAL GOALS. Obviously not everyone wants to look, train, and live like a bodybuilder as people have different priorities in life. I have personally made bodybuilding a top priority. I do not consider it a sacrfice because quite honestly, I think I might be a boring guy otherwise. I do not own a TV, nor do I give a shit about the pop culture trash that is featured on TV. I honestly do not give a shit about politics. I do not drink excessively, nor do I give a rat’s ass about bars and clubs. I do not plan on getting married for another 7 years at least! So, I do not have anchors that intefere with my progressing in bodybuilding. I guess I am a bit self absorbed, like most serious BBers, recreational or otherwise.
Therefore, I can adopt split routines and any other lifestyle practice that a bodybuilder does, aside from sitting on my ass and not having a career, a luxury SOME men on this earth have because of a sponsor. I plan on entering my first natural show next year. This is my goal, to participate in bodybuilding. I do not have elite genetics, nor do I have shit genetics.I would say on a scale of 1 - 10, I rank 7 in terms of genetics. Above average, but definitely not the best.
All I am saying here is that one should find what works best for THEIR goals. If one wants to gain SOME muscle and have decent fitness levels, go for TBT or upper/lower split routine. If you succeed, great!
Those who want to get jacked as possible, use a TBT and adopt the right lifestyle.
BUT…when discussing what is best for gaining as much mass as possible, it is clear that a split routine is best, regardless of what people’s personal goals are. AGAIN, this is simply because the most muscular men on this earth have gotten to where they are with split routines hundreds, if not thousands, of times over! If TBT did produce more muscle than split routines 1000s OF TIMES OVER, I am CERTAIN that today’s top bodybuilders would adopt this form of training.
Yes, I remember AC discussing that topic. I know he does use MOVEMENT based splits. What I meant was that he is not fond of BODYPART splits because of the inherent flaws in them. All programs have flaws and he would agree with this as well. I do think bodypart splits are not as balanced as a movement based split in terms of balancing muscle tension and strength in specific planes of motion. However, there is risk in some endeavors and I guess bodybuilding does bring some risk with it.
I have benefited from the writings of non BB guys like EC and AC tremendously and have incorporated some of their principles into my bodypart splits to a degree, especially with flexibility, mobility, and warming up and paying some attention to balance within a program.
But I DO get tired of the sneers and jokes aimed at bodybuilders when it happens over and over and over again. Like:
-Bodybuilders are not strong for their size; they are all show and no go.
-Bodyuilding training is dysfunctional. Again, I thought for something to be functional it had to serve a purpose. Bodybuilding training has a purpose, to get jacked!
-Bodybuilders do not “compete.” OK, we get it, maybe its more of a show/exhibition than a competition.
-"Do not listen to those guys at the gym that are all jacked. They are all on 'roids and all they say is to eat more protein. You do not need to eat all that protein. A lot of dietitians say this shit. I happen to be a dietitian myself and am finishing a master degree in nutrition. However, some bodybuilders could teach some RDs how to lose some weight in a hurry, rather than follow their silly pyramid, high carb, low protein diets, while fearing that anynone who ingests more than 30 g of pro in a sitting is going to drop dead of end stage renal disease. Many bodybuilders do not know what the fuck they are talking about, even some advanced ones, and couldn’t nutritionally advise or train someone if their life depended on it. However, some are very intelligent and know their shit very well, training, nutrition, and otherwise. The IFBB pro Colette Nelson happens to be a dietitian. Lonnie Lowery is one. Loads of other BBers without degrees in nutrition know some stuff too.
-Big biceps, pecs, and quads are “useless”. I do not know about this one. Perhaps HUGE quads, bis, and pecs are not necessary for athletic feats, but these muscles do contract in physical performance and some athletes do need mass in these areas, particularly strongman events and powerlifting.
Whatever. With all this ranting, at the end of the day, it all matters what kind of results you want and if you succeed in getting them and whether you actually LIKE and ENJOY what you are doing. When I was younger, I would experiment with some of these cookie cutter routines here on T-mag and training became an utter nightmare! Counting rest periods, reps, tempos, and rest intervals, trying to hog two to three pieces of equipent for agonist/antagonist or some other pairings, and then record all of this data. My hobby turned miserable and I thought that this was the way to go and the other stuff in “Muscle and Fiction”, as all these strength geeks like to call it, was just junk. I returned to more simple split routines, probably some that even resembled what came out of the muscle rags and the gains came along again. I was HAPPY as well!
Meanwhile, I realized that I did learn a lot of things from the muscle mags like Musclemag International (Ron Harris, Will Brink, Greg Zulak were some good authors), Muscle Media when it was good, Iron Man (best newsstand mag in my opinion, has some really good shit, especially when Duchaine wrote for it), and yes, even Flex and M&F! Natural Bodybuilding magazine is eh/OK too SOMETIMES. One should keep in mind that the authors of these magazines might not be the most cerebral strength coaches but they have studied and practiced bodybuilding for DECADES! That says something! That’s not “FICTION” to them!
I’ve been reading some of your posts and you sound very knowledgeable. Great read.[/quote]
Thanks to all who like my posts. I live for this bodybuilding stuff and love to share meaningful exchange with people.
I cant believe Gary Strydom is STILL ranked in IFBB! Wow. Albert Beckles II.
Strydom was a work of living art at the first of the short lived WBF shows which I saw live on PPV.
That and he gets my attention for being 6’2, one the rare bbers over 6’0.
There’s an echo in here
…how did i know that this thread was going to turn into a split vs tbt cage match when i saw the title…guess i know this site too well. cmawn guyysss, can’t we all just get along and drink protein shakes together on a hot sunny afternooooooon?
milos sarcev style training.
[quote]That One Guy wrote:
…how did i know that this thread was going to turn into a split vs tbt cage match when i saw the title…guess i know this site too well. cmawn guyysss, can’t we all just get along and drink protein shakes together on a hot sunny afternooooooon?[/quote]
It’s a shame that it did because this thread had/has a lot of potential.
I’d like to touch base again on my first post in this thread. I dropped a lot of weight, muscle mass and strength after an illness. I decided to do something about it because frankly, I didn’t like how I looked or felt. I found this site and after reading a ton of articles I decided to try TBT as I’d never done that type of training before. When I started BB in the early 80’s it was all split training.
Long story short, TBT along with a dietary change increased my weight, muscle mass, strength and overall health. Now I don’t believe just a dietary change would have produced that type of change. I’ve added inches to all the places we want to add inches to and didn’t add inches to the places we don’t i.e. muscle mass not fat.
Now, splits ‘might’ have produced the same results. Splits ‘might’ have produced superior results. However, in the past using splits I did not experience the gains I’ve had with TBT. Yes, splits did give good positive gains. But, for me personally, at that time in my life, TBT produced superior results in my 40’s than split training in my 20’s.
That isn’t a ‘splits suck’ commentary. It is however a positive commentary on what a TBT program ‘may’ do for someone. As I’ve mentioned, I can press more, lift more, pull more now in my 40’s than I could in my early 20’s. For me, TBT fit the bill and did as advertised…at that time. I think it is possible to extol the virtues of one way of doing things without putting down a different way. That is the point I’m making here.
People have built tremendous physiques using both methods. That is simply history. If one method is currently used more than another, it doesn’t mean that the other is not just as effective.
And here is the really nice part of the whole thing, people can use both if they want to. Makes a nice change up to keep it all fresh. I currently alternate between two different TBT routines and one 3-day split. For me, the results continue to be positive. So hopefully that answers the question for the OP as to what has worked best for me. YMMV.
Peace
[quote]TRAJJ wrote:
I see these ass clowns with thighs so damn big they have to put a kotex and vasaline in between them so they don’t burst into flames when they walk. You may or may not think thats ‘jacked’ but I think its ludicrous. And uh yeah…I’ll use the word NON-FUNCTIONAL. Screw it if you and others don’t like it.
If you can bench 500 hundred but can’t go past 3 on a pyramid, in MY book you’re not a complete BBer. If it works for you, great. Doesn’t do anything for me and my goals.
[/quote]
LOL. It is funny that someone so judgmental takes offense at others questioning his own progress.
I doubt many people but YOU alone give a shit about “going past 3 on a pyramid”.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
TRAJJ wrote:
I see these ass clowns with thighs so damn big they have to put a kotex and vasaline in between them so they don’t burst into flames when they walk. You may or may not think thats ‘jacked’ but I think its ludicrous. And uh yeah…I’ll use the word NON-FUNCTIONAL. Screw it if you and others don’t like it.
If you can bench 500 hundred but can’t go past 3 on a pyramid, in MY book you’re not a complete BBer. If it works for you, great. Doesn’t do anything for me and my goals.
LOL. It is funny that someone so judgmental takes offense at others questioning his own progress.
I doubt many people but YOU alone give a shit about “going past 3 on a pyramid”.[/quote]
Sigh…
Funny how you continue to be a sarcastic jackass rather than staying on topic and actually contributing positive to the thread.
Never took offense to questions of my own progress. I took offense to you and a few others making jackass comments rather than being a positive contributor. And I took you and one other to task on it, because someone needs to. You may have 18,000+ posts here, but that doesn’t make you anything special. If anything, it means you obviously don’t have a life. I don’t even have half that amount of posts on a MA board that I own and have run for 6 years. You should post less and train more. Particularly if you hope to compete one day.
As far as pyramids, your negative comment shows how one-dimensional your thinking is. Actually, there are a LOT of people that use various forms of the pyramid in their training. The fact that you do not is not reflective of everyone. Oh, I’m sure a couple of your lap dogs here will chime in, as they’ve already done. People like you usually travel in packs. But I’m sure on this board we have people with open minds that wouldn’t mind using additional training tools in their programs. Be it a pyramid, a tabata, pushing a car or sled, swimming…whatever.
Whatever THEY find useful in THEIR training program. Seems to me, the PRO’S and EXPERTS that write articles on this site occasionally write about things like bodyweight exercises, ‘best exercises we don’t use’, conditioning etc. Here is a HUGE tip for you X, you don’t necessarily have to have a barbell or dumbbell in your hand every exercise for you to be a body builder. You could actually use…GASP…your body weight on some exercises…or GASP…a cable or tubing or chains!!! Maybe you should post less and read more. I can tell you quite honestly, you don’t know everything and could really stand to learn somethings. Manners comes to mind…
So to put it do you on your own level, I don’t give a shit if you don’t know how to effectively use a pyramid in your training. Looking at your pics…you could really use em…dude. Especially if you want to compete one day as you mentioned. But then, I don’t give a shit if you do or don’t. Their part of MY program, amoung several others I know around the world. In fact we have several threads devoted to pyramids, the royal court training etc.
Oh, and uh the BBer’s of the past did them to. Good lessons to learn from the past. I’ve seen your pics X. Oh, your HUUGGGGE,no doubt about it. Thumbs up for you…but I’m not impressed. You wanna be impressive? Hold a back bridge without your hands for 3 minutes. Wanna be REALLY impressive? Hold a back bridge while decline bench pressing (that means no bench, just your neck and back). They used to do things like that in the past and built tremendous physiques and had exceptional strength. You know…body building stuff.
And last but not least X, the minute you wanna stop being an ass and give your ego and pride a day off…I’d be happy to go into great depth with you on the benefits of the royal court, pyramids, tabata and a whole host of other HIGHLY beneficial training elements to include in a BB program.
I’m not going to hold my breath though. People like you that think they know everything always cover with sarcasm the fact they are the ones that need to learn the most. Oh, and I KNOW that I DON’T know everything. Difference between us is I don’t mind admitting it and learning from others.
Thats why TBT worked for me well that first year back in the iron game.
Why don’t we see some of your pics TRAJJ.
If you aren’t impressed with what prof. x has built in his 10+ years of training I would be amazed to see what you look like.
Because I’m not interested in the opinions of faceless amateurs on the internet. No offense. I’m working with a professional natural BB who is also a trainer. He has 30 years of experience, has won multiple titles and is close to my age so he understands what type of training I need at this stage. His advice mirrors a lot of the advice given by the experts on this site so I have confidence in him. To him I have sent my photos for his critique. As a professional with that amount of experience and credentials, it is his opinion I’m interested in.
Besides, taking a picture of the top of my head, or in the mirror wearing a shirt just seems like…I dunno…a cry for acceptance? I’ll stick to the professional critiques.
I guess we should just name the “physique and performance photos” and the “rate my physique” threads to the "crying for acceptance thread.
Yes, I suppose we should.
Now having some of the professionals on the board rate and critique your photo can be productive. That’s their expertise and they’re in a professional position to offer constructive advice.
However, I’ve read a lot of the comments from the membership in peoples photo threads. Sarcastic, insulting and non-productive. So if someone is looking for advice, why ask amateurs? Many of whom are just a-holes looking to smack their gators or get off by putting a ‘witty/sarcastic’ remark in others threads.
If I want a critique, I’m going to seek someone who has the physique I’m training for. And this is what I’ve done.
YMMV
I wasn’t asking for your pics to critique them. After all, if prof x posted more pics there would not be many critiques. It would be full of "damn"s, and “you are huge” and “whats your training and diet look like”. Not many can critique him because not many of us have gotten to his level.
So if you are unimpressed with his development, I would doubt you would have many critiques by all of us useless “amateurs”.
In fact, by posting pics you could justify that TBT was the right training for you. But don’t worry about, you don’t have anything to prove to us. You have only called out one of the biggest guy’s on the forum and said his methods aren’t ideal because he is strictly sticking to body part splits.
[quote]TRAJJ wrote:
Professor X wrote:
TRAJJ wrote:
I see these ass clowns with thighs so damn big they have to put a kotex and vasaline in between them so they don’t burst into flames when they walk. You may or may not think thats ‘jacked’ but I think its ludicrous. And uh yeah…I’ll use the word NON-FUNCTIONAL. Screw it if you and others don’t like it.
If you can bench 500 hundred but can’t go past 3 on a pyramid, in MY book you’re not a complete BBer. If it works for you, great. Doesn’t do anything for me and my goals.
LOL. It is funny that someone so judgmental takes offense at others questioning his own progress.
I doubt many people but YOU alone give a shit about “going past 3 on a pyramid”.
Sigh…
Funny how you continue to be a sarcastic jackass rather than staying on topic and actually contributing positive to the thread.
Never took offense to questions of my own progress. I took offense to you and a few others making jackass comments rather than being a positive contributor. And I took you and one other to task on it, because someone needs to. You may have 18,000+ posts here, but that doesn’t make you anything special. If anything, it means you obviously don’t have a life. I don’t even have half that amount of posts on a MA board that I own and have run for 6 years. You should post less and train more. Particularly if you hope to compete one day.
As far as pyramids, your negative comment shows how one-dimensional your thinking is. Actually, there are a LOT of people that use various forms of the pyramid in their training. The fact that you do not is not reflective of everyone. Oh, I’m sure a couple of your lap dogs here will chime in, as they’ve already done. People like you usually travel in packs. But I’m sure on this board we have people with open minds that wouldn’t mind using additional training tools in their programs. Be it a pyramid, a tabata, pushing a car or sled, swimming…whatever.
Whatever THEY find useful in THEIR training program. Seems to me, the PRO’S and EXPERTS that write articles on this site occasionally write about things like bodyweight exercises, ‘best exercises we don’t use’, conditioning etc. Here is a HUGE tip for you X, you don’t necessarily have to have a barbell or dumbbell in your hand every exercise for you to be a body builder. You could actually use…GASP…your body weight on some exercises…or GASP…a cable or tubing or chains!!! Maybe you should post less and read more. I can tell you quite honestly, you don’t know everything and could really stand to learn somethings. Manners comes to mind…
So to put it do you on your own level, I don’t give a shit if you don’t know how to effectively use a pyramid in your training. Looking at your pics…you could really use em…dude. Especially if you want to compete one day as you mentioned. But then, I don’t give a shit if you do or don’t. Their part of MY program, amoung several others I know around the world. In fact we have several threads devoted to pyramids, the royal court training etc.
Oh, and uh the BBer’s of the past did them to. Good lessons to learn from the past. I’ve seen your pics X. Oh, your HUUGGGGE,no doubt about it. Thumbs up for you…but I’m not impressed. You wanna be impressive? Hold a back bridge without your hands for 3 minutes. Wanna be REALLY impressive? Hold a back bridge while decline bench pressing (that means no bench, just your neck and back). They used to do things like that in the past and built tremendous physiques and had exceptional strength. You know…body building stuff.
And last but not least X, the minute you wanna stop being an ass and give your ego and pride a day off…I’d be happy to go into great depth with you on the benefits of the royal court, pyramids, tabata and a whole host of other HIGHLY beneficial training elements to include in a BB program.
I’m not going to hold my breath though. People like you that think they know everything always cover with sarcasm the fact they are the ones that need to learn the most. Oh, and I KNOW that I DON’T know everything. Difference between us is I don’t mind admitting it and learning from others.
Thats why TBT worked for me well that first year back in the iron game.
[/quote]
You are degrading bodybuilding based on some lame notion that someone has to do activities like “back bridges for 3 mins”? Some of the best bodybuilders in the sport, while flexible enough to do splits (even Ronnie has on stage) are not judged on “back bridges for 3 min”. You seem lost.
I could care less if you are impressed by my progress. There are idiots who degrade some of the top bodybuilders on the planet so I can only imagine many would find fault for me because I’m not there yet. However, why are so many of you ashamed to show your own progress publicly at all?
Very interesting.
Ya, I can relate… I was pressing around 500lbs for awhile but, i dunno, it was kinda like “so what”, is this really helpin me peddle my mountain bike faster…? Had to be honest, the answer was no and since i wanna be a true bodybuilder i had to make a decision. Wasnt easy to make, but im glad i made it and can i ever peddle my bike really fast! like any REAL bodybuilder of course.
I can also relate to not wanting to post pictures due to the fact that MY personal trainer is Jesus Schwarzenegger (no shit, thats his real name) and i only show my pics to him coz, well, i guess he’s kinda special and i feel kinda special when he sees me naked without my shirt. blush
[quote]TRAJJ wrote:
Wanna be REALLY impressive? Hold a back bridge while decline bench pressing (that means no bench, just your neck and back). They used to do things like that in the past and built tremendous physiques and had exceptional strength. You know…body building stuff.
[/quote]
Yea, again, can totally relate dude. This guy in my gym presses like 350 but its like so comical coz not once have i seen him even TRY a back bridge. Dont you hate it when these wanna-bes think there (sic) so special jus coz they look like they press twice as much as you weigh for sets and reps.
Hey, can we be friends?
I really don’t understand y every1 on here is knocking on every1 else’s goals. If Trajj wants to feel like pyramids are important in his training routine then good for him lol. Do I use them? No, but that doesn’t give me the right to bash them.
Bottomline, there is not 1 person on here, aside from myself, that can tell me what works best for me. It also strikes me odd that certain members such as Scotacus really need to get off of professor X’s bird. Sure he as an impressive physique, but that is completely irrelovant to the topic of what works best for us, the individual.