What Routine Worked Best For You?

Training Bodybuilding
41

[quote]TRAJJ wrote:
X
‘I am a recreational bodybuilder who may or may not compete (probably will but haven’t yet).’

Good for you, hope you do well. I’m a bodybuilder that trains for strength, explosive power, endurance and as an assistance to the martial arts I teach. I also train to assist in keeping my self safe in my career. To that end, so far so good.

X
‘What was written is that to claim something WORKED in bodybuilding would mean it actually BUILT YOUR BODY UP. You can keep pretending like a little matter like MUSCLES is irrelevant all you wish, it won’t make it go away.’

Never said anything against muscle mass. You need to read more than you post, might help. I’ve regained 0ver 20 lbs of muscle mass using TBT as a tool. I’m currently 180lbs. I never said that was my goal or where I’ve stopped. I’m gaining in a progressive manner and that is where I’m at now. And MORE importantly, it is a solid 180 that looks good and feels good. No tummy or love handles. That way when I hit 185, 190, 200 I still feel and look good with no tummy. No need to where a t-shirt when taking a picture of myself in the mirror…Not that I would anyway.

X
'Read above.

By the way, I bet your face is flushed and your heart rate is elevated. I would watch that if I were you.’

Uh…what? I was on the fence whether you were just a serious poster, a troll or an idiot. Your making the choice a little easier.

X
‘I’m sorry, but why would I be doing a “combat pyramid”? I lift weights for strength and size, not to do “combat pyramids”’

Maybe you should. Then you could take your shirt off when snapping your photo. They’re a great tool to use in BODY BUILDING.

Hey, if just being ‘big’ is your goal, more power to you. I have different goals. Size and strength are a part of it, but not the only thing. I’ve posted what is working for ME. Why not doing something really novel and actually post something on-topic…like what worked for you. Otherwise, you don’t belong in the thread sport.

X
‘Again, this is the BODYBUILDING FORUM, not the “who can do more combat pyramids” forum.’

It IS the bodybuilding forum. That can and DOES include a large variety of TOOLS for a variety of GOALS. Shame you’re not ‘getting’ that. Open your mind and close your mouth. It would do you a world of good. You may even learn something you didn’t know before.

What a novel thought.

Now rather than going back and forth and taking more out of this thread, how about posting what works for YOU. That will benefit the OP, maybe others and perhaps ME as well as I’m always willing to learn from others experience rather than knocking what is different from mine.

Have a nice day.

[/quote]

You are apparently new here. I couldn’t even count the threads that I have gone into detail about bodybuilding related topics. If that sounds like the work of a troll to you, maybe YOU should read more than you post.

This topic was not about “combat pyramids” or any other fitness related activity. It was about bodybuilding. That usually means muscle gains. To claim something worked for you, the first question would be specifically HOW it worked for you. If your response is that you simply regained some weight you had previously and that still leaves you at average weight for your height, that doesn’t exactly fit, does it?

42

I can say that if you’re a skinny beginner it doesn’t matter. Just keep eating and keep adding weight to the bar.

I’ve done full-body, upper/lower, OLAD, and even CW’s weird 30 day mass plan which is all unilateral work. If you look at my weight from about 65 kilos (once I learned to eat) to 87 (when I got pretty sick after insects infested my buckwheat) it’s very close a straight line. There is, of course, normal fluctuation, but that’s just noise in the data. There is no way to see that one program was more effective than another.

43

X,

It’s like this, we could go back and forth for the next 5 pages having a pissing contest. Waste or our time and non-productive.

So lets you and I start over with each other, and hopefully address the topic. I’m open to learning from you, and perhaps I’ll share something along the way that will assist you in your training.

I had an illness. I lost weight, mass and strength. As a means of returning, and surpassing where I was I choose to use predominately TBT with some split. This is not saying a predominately split based plan would not have worked. Simply that TBT was the method I choose to use at that time.

At that time, I struggled to bench 135lbs, this is how far I had fallen. Using TBT as a tool and a good diet, along with info from this site I was able to go from 154lbs to 180lbs currently. I’m not done, that is simply where I’m at currently. I think 26lbs is a good beginning. My strength is now beyond where I was in my early 20’s and my overall mass has increased to where people have noticed it. Again, I haven’t arrived, I’m on the journey.

My endurance and functional strength, which I consider a part of BB for my personal definition has surpassed where I was previously. For me personally, that is part of the total package. Overall, I’m pleased with my progress. I am now using a combination of TBT and 3 day splits depending on different variables.

Now I’d like to hear what worked for you in your goals X, if you’d like to share them.

Peace.

44

[quote]TRAJJ wrote:
X,

It’s like this, we could go back and forth for the next 5 pages having a pissing contest. Waste or our time and non-productive.

So lets you and I start over with each other, and hopefully address the topic. I’m open to learning from you, and perhaps I’ll share something along the way that will assist you in your training.

I had an illness. I lost weight, mass and strength. As a means of returning, and surpassing where I was I choose to use predominately TBT with some split. This is not saying a predominately split based plan would not have worked. Simply that TBT was the method I choose to use at that time.

At that time, I struggled to bench 135lbs, this is how far I had fallen. Using TBT as a tool and a good diet, along with info from this site I was able to go from 154lbs to 180lbs currently. I’m not done, that is simply where I’m at currently. I think 26lbs is a good beginning. My strength is now beyond where I was in my early 20’s and my overall mass has increased to where people have noticed it. Again, I haven’t arrived, I’m on the journey.

My endurance and functional strength, which I consider a part of BB for my personal definition has surpassed where I was previously. For me personally, that is part of the total package. Overall, I’m pleased with my progress. I am now using a combination of TBT and 3 day splits depending on different variables.

Now I’d like to hear what worked for you in your goals X, if you’d like to share them.

Peace.[/quote]

http://www.T-Nation.com/tmagnum/readTopic.do?id=651079

I started this weighing about 150lbs out of high school.

45

Another thread on the subject:
http://www.T-Nation.com/tmagnum/readTopic.do?id=2034884

Along with:
http://www.T-Nation.com/tmagnum/readTopic.do?id=2026854

and
http://www.T-Nation.com/tmagnum/readTopic.do?id=1949269

46

[quote]TRAJJ wrote:
X,

It’s like this, we could go back and forth for the next 5 pages having a pissing contest. Waste or our time and non-productive.

So lets you and I start over with each other, and hopefully address the topic. I’m open to learning from you, and perhaps I’ll share something along the way that will assist you in your training.

I had an illness. I lost weight, mass and strength. As a means of returning, and surpassing where I was I choose to use predominately TBT with some split. This is not saying a predominately split based plan would not have worked. Simply that TBT was the method I choose to use at that time.

At that time, I struggled to bench 135lbs, this is how far I had fallen. Using TBT as a tool and a good diet, along with info from this site I was able to go from 154lbs to 180lbs currently. I’m not done, that is simply where I’m at currently. I think 26lbs is a good beginning. My strength is now beyond where I was in my early 20’s and my overall mass has increased to where people have noticed it. Again, I haven’t arrived, I’m on the journey.

My endurance and functional strength, which I consider a part of BB for my personal definition has surpassed where I was previously. For me personally, that is part of the total package. Overall, I’m pleased with my progress. I am now using a combination of TBT and 3 day splits depending on different variables.

Now I’d like to hear what worked for you in your goals X, if you’d like to share them.
Peace.[/quote]

Well I for one would like to hear more about these “combat pyramids”!

…Just kidding, I don’t give a shit.

47

I think we need a separate forum entitled: ARGUMENTS.

Actually, though, even without that, in and around the bickering, I think I’m starting to glean useful info from these boards like they’re intended for. Thanks to Prof X and Bricknyce arguing with the TBT population, myself included, they’ve put forth very sound reasoning in support of splits (ok, others have argued as well, but these two put it best). Especially the “it’s what works best, not what you like to train” mantra. I’ll admit, I’ve loved training total body workouts, and have liked the progress I’ve made on them… but haven’t loved it, from a muscle mass or strength perspective.

Athletically, I think they’ve done a good job of preparing me for what I need to do, but those days may be behind me (I hate feeling old at 23).
Thanks to these arguments, which may or may not be the most tolerant approaches, I see the need to change things up, and frankly I’m looking forward to it. I’ll also be able to report back as to how a more intense split works for me than TBT. Democracy in action!

48

X,

Appreciate the links. I’ll take some time to read them over so that I can get an understanding of where you’re coming from. I’m sure I’ll have some questions so I’ll get back with you.

Thank you.

49

I respect prof X’s opinions on bodybuilders and split training… however, what prof x fails to mention is that 90% of the professional bodybuilding world revolves around the use of anabolic agents. That being said, any workout routine would work for a person abusing steroids…

50

[quote]pietran30 wrote:
I respect prof X’s opinions on bodybuilders and split training… however, what prof x fails to mention is that 90% of the professional bodybuilding world revolves around the use of anabolic agents. That being said, any workout routine would work for a person abusing steroids…[/quote]

That isn’t true at all. There are people abusing drugs who you would never know by looking at them. Genetics and effort are at the base of all progress.

51

I wholeheartedly agree, i actually know friends of mine who used steroids and did nothing but gain fat off of them lol. Don’t get me wrong though, genetics and effort are definately the base of all progress as u previously stated. I was merely stating that the professional bodybuilding world today revolves around steroids. If you can honestly try to tell me any of the mr. olympia competitors never used a drug a day in their life, than i’d have to say you are the most naive person i’ve come in contact with.

The point i’m trying to make is that new scientific studies are showing that for hypertrophy TBT seems to be more effective. I respect your opinions and i’m sure u’ve made incredible gains off of split training, as have i. Personally, i started an HST program about a year ago, and will never go back. I started at 5’10 165 lb @ 10% bodyfat, and am currently around 190 lbs with 8% bodyfat. I’ve gained a substantial amount of strength off of HST as well as my bench press has progressed from 275 to my now 1 rep max of 325.

I’m certainly not knocking on Split training, I’m just saying that for you to say that you know for pure fact that split training is better for putting on mass than TBT is just plain ignorant…

52

[quote]pietran30 wrote:

any workout routine would work for a person abusing steroids…[/quote]

I dont think this is true, though Im not sure what are trying to say.

=====

Prof X, you remain unflinching, standing in the trenches. My hats off to you. With poise you have withstood the blitherings of one who thinks bodybuilding is about pretty much everything but building large quantities of muscle.

Personally, I like reading the accounts of bodybuilding champs and how they never consciously set out to build large amounts of muscle and how they all agree that the most important thing about bodybuilding is it allows them to do 1 20 1 pyramids, despite, you know, all the yuckie muscle stuff.

So many wanna-bes like to toss around or adopt terminology and think it can be stretched to fit any pursuit. Yet some lack the sense to realize that because they lift weights, and feel good, and get thumbs up from the wife, doesnt necessarily make them a bodybuilder.

53

[quote]pietran30 wrote:
I respect prof X’s opinions on bodybuilders and split training… however, what prof x fails to mention is that 90% of the professional bodybuilding world revolves around the use of anabolic agents. That being said, any workout routine would work for a person abusing steroids…[/quote]

I’m so sick of hearing steroids as an excuse for not making progress. Most people do not train with enough intensity and consistency to make any progress regardless of split, full body, upper/lower, steroids, whatever. Every small person is so worried about “overtraining” yet they can’t even train with enough volume or intensity to come close to that point. It’s like anything else, if you put 110% effort and focus to achieve your goals, then it will happen. But most people aren’t willing to do this and blame every outside factor imaginable for why they fail.

54

Kinda like these guys that loose alot of fat, build some muscle (not alot) then don the orange paint and speedos and compete in “bodybuilding” competitions. And all the pc assholes say “ooo, looking good. follow your dream.” its like the emporer’s new clothes. On another website they showed this pic of the amateur over 40 “bodybuilder” of the week or month or whatever, doing the skinny-muscles look. Its depressing. For the love of decency, have some self-respect before parading around like that.

There ought to be rule: if, when doing a front double bi’s, your pecs disappear, you may not wear the orange paint (except for your wife of course).

55

[quote]pietran30 wrote:
I wholeheartedly agree, i actually know friends of mine who used steroids and did nothing but gain fat off of them lol. Don’t get me wrong though, genetics and effort are definately the base of all progress as u previously stated. I was merely stating that the professional bodybuilding world today revolves around steroids. If you can honestly try to tell me any of the mr. olympia competitors never used a drug a day in their life, than i’d have to say you are the most naive person i’ve come in contact with.

The point i’m trying to make is that new scientific studies are showing that for hypertrophy TBT seems to be more effective. I respect your opinions and i’m sure u’ve made incredible gains off of split training, as have i. Personally, i started an HST program about a year ago, and will never go back. I started at 5’10 165 lb @ 10% bodyfat, and am currently around 190 lbs with 8% bodyfat. I’ve gained a substantial amount of strength off of HST as well as my bench press has progressed from 275 to my now 1 rep max of 325.

I’m certainly not knocking on Split training, I’m just saying that for you to say that you know for pure fact that split training is better for putting on mass than TBT is just plain ignorant…
[/quote]

Yea, thats kinda like me… i used to be 5’11 143lbs, now im 5’6 287lbs… and since i was taking steroids all i had to do was beat the shit out of my girlfriend twice a week… sometimes total body, sometimes id do a split (thats when you alternate punchingn and kicking the shit out her).

56

[quote]ccardill wrote:
I’m so sick of hearing steroids as an excuse for not making progress. Most people do not train with enough intensity and consistency to make any progress regardless of split, full body, upper/lower, steroids, whatever. Every small person is so worried about “overtraining” yet they can’t even train with enough volume or intensity to come close to that point. It’s like anything else, if you put 110% effort and focus to achieve your goals, then it will happen. But most people aren’t willing to do this and blame every outside factor imaginable for why they fail.[/quote]

lol i think you misinterpreted my post. I myself personally have nevr used any performance enhancing drugs. i feel they are extremely unneccessary considering i lift do not compete in any form of bodybuilding competitions, and no longer play football. I lift to get bigger and stronger because i like to stay fit and feel good about the way i look.

The only reason i brought up steroids was because the bodybuilding world is full of them. Prof X stated that many professional bodybuilders use split routines. If “natural” bodybuilders followed everything the pros said and did, they’d soon find that they wouldn’t make nearly as much progress as the pros. That being said some of this can be contributed to diet, instensity, genetics, etc. But in the professional bodybuilding world today, performance enhancing drugs are in use which really helps the pros build alot of mass that they naturally would not be able to.

As for the post above me, there was no relovance to nething in that post, and the sarcasm was quite unneccesary and unwarranted.

57

[quote]pietran30 wrote:
The only reason i brought up steroids was because the bodybuilding world is full of them. Prof X stated that many professional bodybuilders use split routines. If “natural” bodybuilders followed everything the pros said and did, they’d soon find that they wouldn’t make nearly as much progress as the pros. That being said some of this can be contributed to diet, instensity, genetics, etc. But in the professional bodybuilding world today, performance enhancing drugs are in use which really helps the pros build alot of mass that they naturally would not be able to.
[/quote]

using some pro bodybuilder’s routine is not the point. they have been training for years progressively increasing volume, work capacity, etc… progressive being the key word. steroids or not, these are the keys to training and this limiting belief that “natural” bodybuilders can’t be using substantial volume is wrong, it just that work capacity has to be built up over months and years of consistent training.

it seems this society moves towards anything that promotes the quick fix and these 3 day a week, whole body routines where you’re in the gym 3 hours a week is not going to give the best results over the long term.

58

[quote]ccardill wrote:
using some pro bodybuilder’s routine is not the point. they have been training for years progressively increasing volume, work capacity, etc… progressive being the key word. steroids or not, these are the keys to training and this limiting belief that “natural” bodybuilders can’t be using substantial volume is wrong, it just that work capacity has to be built up over months and years of consistent training.

it seems this society moves towards anything that promotes the quick fix and these 3 day a week, whole body routines where you’re in the gym 3 hours a week is not going to give the best results over the long term.[/quote]

That’s a fair assesment, and understandable with the logic of bodybuilding and hypertrophy over the past decades. I’m also glad u brought up progressive, because progressive loading is key to building muscle as u pointed out. I was never saying that steroids are the reasons people get bigger or anything like, it just seemed that professor X was putting too much emphasis on the pros.

The point i am trying to make however, is that the amount of time in the gym you spend is important, but like most things in this world, it’s about quality not quantity. Personally, i find myself pushing myself harder and harder when using a program like HST rather than a split routine. The key word there being me and myself.

I’ve made better gains off of TBT than i have from splits. This is me, and i respect all of your opinions, because you provide valid arguements and whatnot. My whole arguement was just that i felt professor x was placing too much emphasis on what the pros do.

That all being said, i would recommend a TBT program working out 3 days a week doing 1 or 2 sets per excercise, for that is what has worked for me. Right now i feel that is the best way to build mass. However, i’m definately not saying that i won’t ever go back to splits. It’s just thus far i’ve seen better gains on myself using a program like HST, rather than a split routine.

59

Can’t we all just get along, quit bitchin, go workout, eat, or something?

I think I’ll start randomly picking workouts on this site and do’em. They all pretty much work anyway. Just not CWs TBT, didn’t do shit for some reason. I might just pick them based on what will piss off people the most that week, and then chirp about how my way is best.

Kidding

60

[quote]pietran30 wrote:
ccardill wrote:
using some pro bodybuilder’s routine is not the point. they have been training for years progressively increasing volume, work capacity, etc… progressive being the key word. steroids or not, these are the keys to training and this limiting belief that “natural” bodybuilders can’t be using substantial volume is wrong, it just that work capacity has to be built up over months and years of consistent training.

it seems this society moves towards anything that promotes the quick fix and these 3 day a week, whole body routines where you’re in the gym 3 hours a week is not going to give the best results over the long term.

That’s a fair assesment, and understandable with the logic of bodybuilding and hypertrophy over the past decades. I’m also glad u brought up progressive, because progressive loading is key to building muscle as u pointed out. I was never saying that steroids are the reasons people get bigger or anything like, it just seemed that professor X was putting too much emphasis on the pros.

The point i am trying to make however, is that the amount of time in the gym you spend is important, but like most things in this world, it’s about quality not quantity. Personally, i find myself pushing myself harder and harder when using a program like HST rather than a split routine. The key word there being me and myself.

I’ve made better gains off of TBT than i have from splits. This is me, and i respect all of your opinions, because you provide valid arguements and whatnot. My whole arguement was just that i felt professor x was placing too much emphasis on what the pros do.

That all being said, i would recommend a TBT program working out 3 days a week doing 1 or 2 sets per excercise, for that is what has worked for me. Right now i feel that is the best way to build mass. However, i’m definately not saying that i won’t ever go back to splits. It’s just thus far i’ve seen better gains on myself using a program like HST, rather than a split routine.
[/quote]

How has it worked for you? How much muscle have you gained specifically and how many years have you been lifting?

Why wouldn’t I look to what the people making the most progress are doing? If TBT built more muscle on them, don’t you think they would be using it in majority? Why would I look to those with the least genetic potential to determine what works the best in gaining muscle mass? This is bodybuilding. Frankly, if you have the worst genetics on the planet, you may need to find a different hobby. There is no way I would spend this much time, money and effort on something to reap very little benefit from it. Most natural competitive bodybuilders also use split routines. They are also likely to have better genetics than average. This really isn’t an activity for the genetically inept. You also won’t know where you stand in that department until you have put some YEARS into this.

You wrote:

That speaks volumes about your own level of motivation. Regardless of what you are doing you should be pushing yourself hard. Why would the specific routine make you work harder than another? You obviously don’t want to reach a goal bad enough if a change in routine can REDUCE your own motivation.