To the OP, if you are managing to increase your squat by 5lbs each week on 5x5 KEEP DOING IT. The best recipe for larger legs is stronger legs, growth WILL COME.
When your weights start to stall and no longer respond to the method you are currently using, that’s the time to change your rep scheme. Something simple like a 3x10 would be a good option with the same principle of attempting to add a little extra weight each week applied.
Not hard data just my opinion. I used to be more bodybuilding inclined. I quad squatted and what not. 3 years ago I got into powerlifting. My thigh circumference is probably about the same as 3 years ago. My quads are smaller and thinner. My hams and butt are much bigger and I squat about 200lbs more. I do believe my quads are smaller 1] because they don’t get the volume they used to both in terms of exercise and form execution and 2] the rep range. It certainly seems quads can and do grow big off 10+ reps
[quote]undeadlift wrote:
Powerlifters who do 1 rep per set have huge legs. So does the Hungarian Oak who squats for 8 minutes straight, probably around 300-500 reps. Your call.[/quote]
Don’t forget oly lifters who do lots low-rep squats. I, being a mixed oly/powerlifter, have large hamstrings and glutes. They really help pack leg size even if my quads aren’t that impressive.
10 minutes on the stairmaster will put on size too…
haha fuck the stairmaster, I walk up enough stairs going to class.
20 rep squats FTW…
I’ve found variation works best for me. If i’m going heavy i’ll switch up and go light with super high reps…like 4x50 on squats or something my body totally isn’t used to. I read the article on T-Nation, forgive me for not looking it up and citing it, but they referenced speed skaters and how they develop huge quads. Then they referenced how tom platz had incremented high rep leg exercises into his routine. I was trying to find an exercise to bring detail in my quads and tried a strip set on a hack squat machine. Well the detail came and the size. lol I loaded up the machine with a total of 6 cadillacs (45lb plate, lol i like the slang) on both sides. Rep out 3 reps and strip 2 of the right side, 3 reps 2 off the left,etc until all the plates are gone. Immediately after the last plates are gone rep out 24 and see how you like it. Go deep throughout the exercise. You can also do lighter weight and even high reps if you like. Of course that exercise requires additional help so that somebody can take the plates off for you.
-gerdy
I have always found that higher reps (12-16) best add size to my legs. I certainly get stronger with 5x5 leg days, but for size more reps work for me. I love nothing more than hitting deadlifts for high intensity days and squats for moderate intensity days for a solid all around leg blast.
[quote]undeadlift wrote:
avatar trance[/quote]
2nd that…
As for rep range, there is no “best” rep range. If you stick with one range, you might get some growth, but your gonna adapt a lot sooner, than if you mix it up.
Rather than think of rep range, think of ways to up your strength, and increase the total work done. (sets x reps x weight)
10x3 and 3 x 10 will work, and then you can go to 5x5.
All that matters, is your strength is going up, and your increasing the TOTAL amound of weight lifted.
Having said that. Do something drastically different then youve been doing currently. So maybe have one strength day, that is high intensity low volume (5x3) and later in the week have a 3x15.
A last note, try to keep the weight in the 70-90% range, and control your eccentric, and lift maximally during concenric. Whatever reps you can do that for is good.
For Leg Size you should use a rep range of 12 and above. Widowmaker sets of 20 can be done somewhat regularly but ultra-insane stuff like Tabata Squats and 50-rep+ stuff should be used sparingly if at all.
But for leg training you should also use reps of 6 or less with near-maximal weights so you can continue to increase your strength. If your strength doesn’t increase, you can’t increase your training poundages.
Quads and Hip Extension (Squats, RDLs) respond well to higher reps above 12.
Knee Flexion (Leg Curls, GHR) responds well to lower reps of 8-10.
Calves Respond well to reps with lots of ROM. Get a superb stretch and maximize the good pain.
Thx guys lots of good advice. I have a question though. I always hear on this site to either train for size or strength not both, and some of you guys are suggesting a lower rep heavy day and then a low weight high rep day later in the week. so if I’m doing a heavy day of say 5x5 and then 3 days later do 4X12 isn’t that doing exactly what everyone says not to?
You know all of this makes a lot of sense. My chest and my legs are two of my strongest muscle groups, but they are also relatively the smallest. I didnt realize that I had always been doing low reps with both muscle groups to maximize strength for football and unkowingly higher reps for my other muscle groups for size. So all of this is making a lot of sense now that I’m putting 2 and 2 together, ty guys.
Unless you have an endless supply of steriods or perfect genetics, you should be training for both strength and size.
In my opinion you can train with emphasis on one or the other. Just as a bodybuilder is strong but cares more about building muscle, most powerlifters are big but care about getting stronger. Regardless of which one you may be focusing on at the moment the other will also come.
If your getting bigger most likely your getting stronger. If your getting stronger most likely you will be getting bigger or at least have the potential to lift a heavier weight building a bigger muscle…lol
[quote]dankid wrote:
Unless you have an endless supply of steriods or perfect genetics, you should be training for both strength and size.[/quote]
Well I have both so I’l just stick with size for now. lol jk
Hmm so then I guess the real question is if I really want to train for pure size should I switch every exercise, and i mean EVERY exercise into the 12+ rep range?
For instance, for the past couple years I have been doing 6 or less reps for every compound exercise like squat, bench, military, etc. and 10+ for smaller muscle groups, such as biceps/triceps, and for isolation stuff like leg extensions, delt work, and flys. I have made really good strength gains and put on some decent size as well. But if I REALLY want to go all out for strictly size should I switch every lift over to the 12+ rep range including all of my compounds?
I wouldn’t do that. At least not for long term. A switch to something drastically different will likely result in some gains, but your gonna want to continue to increase strength as well. Maybe 4-6 weeks of higher reps, and then work back in your strength.
The thing ive noticed, is its much easier to increase your workload, by working with heavy weights.
Say you can bench 3x10 with 225 and your 1rm is 300. You can try to improve by adding a rep to each set, or adding sets, but if you were to work strength and increase you 1rm to 350 or 400, then you might be able to rep 275 for 3x10.
The point is, there is more than one way to progress, and its not short term that matters, its long term. Sure sets of 12+ might seem better for short term development but in the long run your going to need to increase strength through the use of lower reps. ***Also, dont forget the power of density. If you do sets of 5 with 250, and decrease the rest breaks down to 30 seconds or less, its almost as if the 2 sets of 5 become one set of 10. This is a great way of training to increase both size, and workload.
You might start with a 10x3 with 2 minute rest breaks, keep the weight the same each workout, but gradually decrease the rest breaks. When you get to 30 second rest breaks, up the weight and start over. People get too caught up in sets and reps. The body doesn’t recognize sets and reps. It sees stressors placed upon it repeadedly as it recovers. Use this to your advantage.
Try switching it up, or try lower reps for your primary movements (bench, deadlift, squat, rows, etc.) and use lighter weights for assistance work.
When you’ve been training legs for size have you been trying to reach hypertrophy? This can be reached no matter what set/rep scheme you are doing as long as you are pushing yourself with the weight. I know that sounds like a stupid question but reaching hypertrophy in your legs isn’t easy. you sound strong so I doubt you haven’t pushed yourself at all, but like i said getting legs to hypertrophy isn’t an easy task.
Many people think they are busting a gut on squats but really they are just conditioning their legs instead of getting to hypertrophy. Some may be out of breath before their legs reach hypertrophy so you feel like your getting a good training session in but it’s working more cardio/respiratory than legs. lol Many hardcore people speak of throwing up, etc during squats and to a point they are correct.
On leg day if you are leaving the gym without feeling like you’ve just gone through hell you probably aren’t reaching hypertrophy. To bust out of plateu’s in the past I’ve like my workouts consisting of heavy weight/low rep exercises and light weight high rep exercises in the same training session. Here is one that helped bust out of a plateu, some may argue and call it over training or they don’t like the idea of doing high and low rep exercises for one muscle group but here it goes.
bike moderate 5 mins to warm up
Squat 5x8-12 heavy
Leg Press 5x8-12 heavy
Strip sets on hack squat machine 3 sets look at my previous posts on this thread i described the exercise if you don’t know it
Lunges 3x25 per leg add weight if you don’t struggle with last few reps
Leg Extensions 2x25
Leg Curls or Glute/Ham Raise 2x25/or 8-10 the g/h raise isn’t easy for me. lol
Wall Sits 2x2mins on/1min rest
followed by your choice of calf exercise.
the last set of each exercise should require you to drop weight to complete the set. Each set almost to failure.
Perform each exercise like it’s the only one your doing that day. You should be leaving the gym feeling it in your legs. I used to have the whole super strong legs and no size being a catcher in baseball but i’ve made good progress in the size dept adding workouts like this in. Every time I add this workout in or one similar I only train legs once that week .vs. the usual twice. When I return to my leg workouts I can usually add a few lbs to each exercise and they get larger. I’ve had to buy bigger pants or wear shorts lately so something has worked for me. I know what works for me and everybody is different, but you can try this if you’d like.
Key point here is to just make sure you feel like you are reaching hypertrophy in your legs which as i stated before isn’t easy. You will know when you do because everyday tasks with your legs are almost impossible. lol
-Gerdy
thx dankid and gerdy for the good info.
So dankid I think I’m gonna do what you said and do high reps for like 6-8 weeks then switch back to lower reps. I’ve been doing low reps for all the big stuff for 4 years so I’m sure I need to change it up.
gerdy as to the hypertrophy thing I think your absolutely right. For some reason it is incredibly difficult for me to get soreness in my legs and calves, which probaby explains why they are my lagging muscle groups(However I’ve only been training calves for a year so…)
That workout is beast lol, well I guess just need to up my total volume. Have you noticed if lunges have helped a lot for overall mass? I fucking hate them and don’t want to do them if I dont have too lol.
[quote]FightingScott wrote:
For Leg Size you should use a rep range of 12 and above. Widowmaker sets of 20 can be done somewhat regularly but ultra-insane stuff like Tabata Squats and 50-rep+ stuff should be used sparingly if at all.
But for leg training you should also use reps of 6 or less with near-maximal weights so you can continue to increase your strength. If your strength doesn’t increase, you can’t increase your training poundages.
Quads and Hip Extension (Squats, RDLs) respond well to higher reps above 12.
Knee Flexion (Leg Curls, GHR) responds well to lower reps of 8-10.
Calves Respond well to reps with lots of ROM. Get a superb stretch and maximize the good pain. [/quote]
Thx fightingscott, good post.
interesting post gerdy, not sure what it feels like to hypertrophy though, lol.