[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]rds63799 wrote:
worrying about what’s attainable natty is the same in my eyes as fat chicks whining about size zero models.
Who cares what someone else has done? Just be the best version of yourself you can.
And while I hate to throw flames on an argument that has raged through this place like napalm, something is only viewed as unattainable natty until someone natty attains it. Maybe you’ll be the first? Won’t know if you don’t try.[/quote]
This.[/quote]
i responded to the post from RDS, im not limiting anyone.
[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]rds63799 wrote:
worrying about what’s attainable natty is the same in my eyes as fat chicks whining about size zero models.
Who cares what someone else has done? Just be the best version of yourself you can.
And while I hate to throw flames on an argument that has raged through this place like napalm, something is only viewed as unattainable natty until someone natty attains it. Maybe you’ll be the first? Won’t know if you don’t try.[/quote]
This.[/quote]
i responded to the post from RDS, im not limiting anyone.
[/quote]
It’s too late.
You are limited.
[quote]flipcollar wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]rds63799 wrote:
worrying about what’s attainable natty is the same in my eyes as fat chicks whining about size zero models.
Who cares what someone else has done? Just be the best version of yourself you can.
And while I hate to throw flames on an argument that has raged through this place like napalm, something is only viewed as unattainable natty until someone natty attains it. Maybe you’ll be the first? Won’t know if you don’t try.[/quote]
This.[/quote]
Obviously there are LIMITS though. Someone should start a thread about it…
[/quote]
But if everybody’s limit is different than there really isn’t a limit… and who says anybody has a limit? What if a person reaches the so called “limit” and keeps working, are they just going to stay the same after that? Are they going to get a text msg saying “you have reached your limit, no progress will be made” come on man!! For most peole they talk about natty limits to make themselves feel better when they see dudes that are bigger, stronger, and faster then they are… They use the, “he isn’t natural” excuse so they don’t have to worry about trying to compete with that other person…
[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]rds63799 wrote:
worrying about what’s attainable natty is the same in my eyes as fat chicks whining about size zero models.
Who cares what someone else has done? Just be the best version of yourself you can.
And while I hate to throw flames on an argument that has raged through this place like napalm, something is only viewed as unattainable natty until someone natty attains it. Maybe you’ll be the first? Won’t know if you don’t try.[/quote]
This.[/quote]
i responded to the post from RDS, im not limiting anyone.
[/quote]
It’s too late.
You are limited.[/quote]
What exactly are we approaching?
[quote]krummdiddy wrote:
[quote]flipcollar wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]rds63799 wrote:
worrying about what’s attainable natty is the same in my eyes as fat chicks whining about size zero models.
Who cares what someone else has done? Just be the best version of yourself you can.
And while I hate to throw flames on an argument that has raged through this place like napalm, something is only viewed as unattainable natty until someone natty attains it. Maybe you’ll be the first? Won’t know if you don’t try.[/quote]
This.[/quote]
Obviously there are LIMITS though. Someone should start a thread about it…
[/quote]
But if everybody’s limit is different than there really isn’t a limit… and who says anybody has a limit? What if a person reaches the so called “limit” and keeps working, are they just going to stay the same after that? Are they going to get a text msg saying “you have reached your limit, no progress will be made” come on man!! For most peole they talk about natty limits to make themselves feel better when they see dudes that are bigger, stronger, and faster then they are… They use the, “he isn’t natural” excuse so they don’t have to worry about trying to compete with that other person… [/quote]
There isn’t a hard and fast limit that can be used for each person but each person will have their own limit. It’s basic physiology.
Doesn’t mean you should not train your ass off erry day and do what ever you can to continue to progress and enjoy what you are doing. But to say ppl do not have a size/leannes limit is asinine
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
[quote]krummdiddy wrote:
[quote]flipcollar wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]rds63799 wrote:
worrying about what’s attainable natty is the same in my eyes as fat chicks whining about size zero models.
Who cares what someone else has done? Just be the best version of yourself you can.
And while I hate to throw flames on an argument that has raged through this place like napalm, something is only viewed as unattainable natty until someone natty attains it. Maybe you’ll be the first? Won’t know if you don’t try.[/quote]
This.[/quote]
Obviously there are LIMITS though. Someone should start a thread about it…
[/quote]
But if everybody’s limit is different than there really isn’t a limit… and who says anybody has a limit? What if a person reaches the so called “limit” and keeps working, are they just going to stay the same after that? Are they going to get a text msg saying “you have reached your limit, no progress will be made” come on man!! For most peole they talk about natty limits to make themselves feel better when they see dudes that are bigger, stronger, and faster then they are… They use the, “he isn’t natural” excuse so they don’t have to worry about trying to compete with that other person… [/quote]
There isn’t a hard and fast limit that can be used for each person but each person will have their own limit. It’s basic physiology.
Doesn’t mean you should not train your ass off erry day and do what ever you can to continue to progress and enjoy what you are doing. But to say ppl do not have a size/leannes limit is asinine [/quote]
I know people have a limit but they will never reach that limit in less they challenge what most people think the limit is…
[quote]krummdiddy wrote:
[quote]flipcollar wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]rds63799 wrote:
worrying about what’s attainable natty is the same in my eyes as fat chicks whining about size zero models.
Who cares what someone else has done? Just be the best version of yourself you can.
And while I hate to throw flames on an argument that has raged through this place like napalm, something is only viewed as unattainable natty until someone natty attains it. Maybe you’ll be the first? Won’t know if you don’t try.[/quote]
This.[/quote]
Obviously there are LIMITS though. Someone should start a thread about it…
[/quote]
But if everybody’s limit is different than there really isn’t a limit… and who says anybody has a limit? What if a person reaches the so called “limit” and keeps working, are they just going to stay the same after that? Are they going to get a text msg saying “you have reached your limit, no progress will be made” come on man!! For most peole they talk about natty limits to make themselves feel better when they see dudes that are bigger, stronger, and faster then they are… They use the, “he isn’t natural” excuse so they don’t have to worry about trying to compete with that other person… [/quote]
this has nothing to do with jealousy for fuck sake, those charts were based on the limits that top natty pros have obtained, alot of whom were likely not naturals anyway. i dont try to bring anyone down i try to educate and discuss. like i said at the start of the thread all these people love to argue against it, but no one has shown me a single natty who has gained significantly more that those charts…
im not saying everyone’s limit is the same! most will gain less and a select few may gain slightly more. ive also never said someone shouldn’t aim to do better that the people these charts of based off of, just that dont be disappointed if you dont get there…
[quote]krummdiddy wrote:
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
[quote]krummdiddy wrote:
[quote]flipcollar wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]rds63799 wrote:
worrying about what’s attainable natty is the same in my eyes as fat chicks whining about size zero models.
Who cares what someone else has done? Just be the best version of yourself you can.
And while I hate to throw flames on an argument that has raged through this place like napalm, something is only viewed as unattainable natty until someone natty attains it. Maybe you’ll be the first? Won’t know if you don’t try.[/quote]
This.[/quote]
Obviously there are LIMITS though. Someone should start a thread about it…
[/quote]
But if everybody’s limit is different than there really isn’t a limit… and who says anybody has a limit? What if a person reaches the so called “limit” and keeps working, are they just going to stay the same after that? Are they going to get a text msg saying “you have reached your limit, no progress will be made” come on man!! For most peole they talk about natty limits to make themselves feel better when they see dudes that are bigger, stronger, and faster then they are… They use the, “he isn’t natural” excuse so they don’t have to worry about trying to compete with that other person… [/quote]
There isn’t a hard and fast limit that can be used for each person but each person will have their own limit. It’s basic physiology.
Doesn’t mean you should not train your ass off erry day and do what ever you can to continue to progress and enjoy what you are doing. But to say ppl do not have a size/leannes limit is asinine [/quote]
I know people have a limit but they will never reach that limit in less they challenge what most people think the limit is…[/quote]
No one said not to try and beat these charts, where are you getting this from? these are just accurate expectations of what experts believe majority of people can gain naturally. based on experience and studying of TOP NATURAL BODYBUILDERS. no one said stop fucking trying if you get close to them, and you would be an idiot to do so.
Also be realistic about how long it takes a natty to get there.
[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
[quote]krummdiddy wrote:
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
[quote]krummdiddy wrote:
[quote]flipcollar wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]rds63799 wrote:
worrying about what’s attainable natty is the same in my eyes as fat chicks whining about size zero models.
Who cares what someone else has done? Just be the best version of yourself you can.
And while I hate to throw flames on an argument that has raged through this place like napalm, something is only viewed as unattainable natty until someone natty attains it. Maybe you’ll be the first? Won’t know if you don’t try.[/quote]
This.[/quote]
Obviously there are LIMITS though. Someone should start a thread about it…
[/quote]
But if everybody’s limit is different than there really isn’t a limit… and who says anybody has a limit? What if a person reaches the so called “limit” and keeps working, are they just going to stay the same after that? Are they going to get a text msg saying “you have reached your limit, no progress will be made” come on man!! For most peole they talk about natty limits to make themselves feel better when they see dudes that are bigger, stronger, and faster then they are… They use the, “he isn’t natural” excuse so they don’t have to worry about trying to compete with that other person… [/quote]
There isn’t a hard and fast limit that can be used for each person but each person will have their own limit. It’s basic physiology.
Doesn’t mean you should not train your ass off erry day and do what ever you can to continue to progress and enjoy what you are doing. But to say ppl do not have a size/leannes limit is asinine [/quote]
I know people have a limit but they will never reach that limit in less they challenge what most people think the limit is…[/quote]
No one said not to try and beat these charts, where are you getting this from? these are just accurate expectations of what experts believe majority of people can gain naturally. based on experience and studying of TOP NATURAL BODYBUILDERS. no one said stop fucking trying if you get close to them, and you would be an idiot to do so.
[/quote]
I think this whole thread is stupid…
I have noticed a correlation between believing that there aren’t really set limits and being a “big guy” or “bulker”. It just seems that all of the guys arguing against any of the limits that have been discussed lately are the big 'ole boys (X, krumm, etc.), or just guys who like to bulk out.
[quote]krummdiddy wrote:
[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
[quote]krummdiddy wrote:
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
[quote]krummdiddy wrote:
[quote]flipcollar wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]rds63799 wrote:
worrying about what’s attainable natty is the same in my eyes as fat chicks whining about size zero models.
Who cares what someone else has done? Just be the best version of yourself you can.
And while I hate to throw flames on an argument that has raged through this place like napalm, something is only viewed as unattainable natty until someone natty attains it. Maybe you’ll be the first? Won’t know if you don’t try.[/quote].
This.[/quote]
Obviously there are LIMITS though. Someone should start a thread about it…
[/quote]
But if everybody’s limit is different than there really isn’t a limit… and who says anybody has a limit? What if a person reaches the so called “limit” and keeps working, are they just going to stay the same after that? Are they going to get a text msg saying “you have reached your limit, no progress will be made” come on man!! For most peole they talk about natty limits to make themselves feel better when they see dudes that are bigger, stronger, and faster then they are… They use the, “he isn’t natural” excuse so they don’t have to worry about trying to compete with that other person… [/quote]
There isn’t a hard and fast limit that can be used for each person but each person will have their own limit. It’s basic physiology.
Doesn’t mean you should not train your ass off erry day and do what ever you can to continue to progress and enjoy what you are doing. But to say ppl do not have a size/leannes limit is asinine [/quote]
I know people have a limit but they will never reach that limit in less they challenge what most people think the limit is…[/quote]
No one said not to try and beat these charts, where are you getting this from? these are just accurate expectations of what experts believe majority of people can gain naturally. based on experience and studying of TOP NATURAL BODYBUILDERS. no one said stop fucking trying if you get close to them, and you would be an idiot to do so.
[/quote]
I think this whole thread is stupid…[/quote].
That’s nice… Who the fuck told you that you had to be apart of it?
I wish everyone would stop being do argumentative about this stuff.
No one will dispute that a limit for each person does exist.
Some will argue that basing yourself off what other people did MIGHT slow you down. I can see his point. Sprinters run as if the finish line is another 10ft past the finish. They don’t slow down as they near the finish because of this mentality.
Personally, I don’t think these talks limit people. It’s just interesting stuff.
I like this topic, and like to see it discussed, just for funsies though,
To me it’s like discussing any other aspect of training, low carb vs high carb diets, low volume vs high volume training. Yeah, there’s really no ‘right’ answer or anything, but still it’s nice to kind of talk shop with people of a similar interest as yourself.
Plus, IMO, and maybe I should put this in the flame-free thread, but anyone who would allow a discussion of ‘limits’ on a random forum on the internet make them lower their standards or not try as hard anymore, well… maybe they aren’t cut out for this 
In my opinion the topic is boring because it is trivial.
We have a good idea of what people so far have accomplished natty (data: lbm estimates + pictures).
Think you or your buddy are the natty ubergod defying all existing data? Well, then to convince others you better produce some damn good evidence backing your claim. [post up a good quality picture and/or reliable bf proof and/or evidence that you are actually natty; no simple testimonies allowed]
So far we have seen only worthless evidence from the few people who argue that there are people who defy previous data.
As for the whole “limits” holding everyone back bs. Any natty on here and on this planet will not even look remotely close to Cordova & co in their life. Then how should seeing them as the (“wrong”) max limit should hold anyone back is beyond me.
Ok, carry on.
[quote]J. Prufrock wrote:
I have noticed a correlation between believing that there aren’t really set limits and being a “big guy” or “bulker”. It just seems that all of the guys arguing against any of the limits that have been discussed lately are the big 'ole boys (X, krumm, etc.), or just guys who like to bulk out.[/quote]
^ Dis.
[quote]bwilliamsr89 wrote:
Personally, I don’t think these talks limit people. It’s just interesting stuff.[/quote]
Right, which is why I’ve been involved in these discussions in the past.
You can see this old conversation from last summer. T - Competitive Bodybuilding - Forums - T Nation
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
In my opinion the topic is boring because it is trivial.
We have a good idea of what people so far have accomplished natty (data: lbm estimates + pictures).
Think you or your buddy are the natty ubergod defying all existing data? Well, then to convince others you better produce some damn good evidence backing your claim. [post up a good quality picture and/or reliable bf proof and/or evidence that you are actually natty; no simple testimonies allowed]
So far we have seen only worthless evidence from the few people who argue that there are people who defy previous data.
As for the whole “limits” holding everyone back bs. Any natty on here and on this planet will not even look remotely close to Cordova & co in their life. Then how should seeing them as the (“wrong”) max limit should hold anyone back is beyond me.
Ok, carry on.[/quote]
^ Dis.
If some chart or equation on a website is going to make you give up on your goal of building the best physique you can, you didn’t have what it would take to be your best anyway.