Why am I getting a feeling of deja vu.
S
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
Why am I getting a feeling of deja vu.
S[/quote]
Has Stu finally realized heās in a curling loop?
[quote]spar4tee wrote:
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
Why am I getting a feeling of deja vu.
S[/quote]
Has Stu finally realized heās in a curling loop?[/quote]
omg heās becoming aware of the Stu show where the world secretly watches him curl 24/7.
[quote]SteelyD wrote:
Not speaking for PX-- just interjecting my own thoughts into this very reasonable discussion.
[quote]LoRez wrote:
If you met some kid and he was hoping to run a 2 minute mile, would you be encourage that? Or would you attempt to set him straight on whatās been achieved so farā¦ and then wish him luck? Or really, how would you approach that? Genuinely curious.[/quote]
Hereās a more applicable āwhat ifā.
Take a kid like Spidey on this forum (no particular reason, just the first sort of new kid I thought of).
Say his goal was to bench a raw 800 lbs - a world record. (To my knowledge the raw WR is low 700ās)
Say his current bench is 185.
Would you NOT encourage that? I would say you say āFUCK YESā, but first, we get you to 190. Then 225, then ā¦
You donāt say āWell, thatās a world record and you donāt have the genetics to do it because nobody has ever done it and I have a chart of all recorded raw benchpress numbers here to show itā.
The only answer is āFUCK YES, YOU CAN DO THIS, NOW GO EATā.
Now, raw 800lb BP with #hawtabz at 10.0334534% BF ā weāll work on that a little laterā¦
[/quote]
Fuck yes. Finally someoneās talking some sense on here. At least someone gets it.
I think even considering limits is counterproductive to anyoneās mental attitude. You hammer home that table to a kid like that and heāll never know if he could have broken a world record because he will have given up long before he ever gets close to finding out.
No one exceptional ever achieved anything by thinking about what their limits were. It was the belief that they could achieve anything and that everyone who says otherwise can go fuck themselves that carried them there.
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
Why am I getting a feeling of deja vu.
S[/quote]
Yup
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
[quote]SteelyD wrote:
Not speaking for PX-- just interjecting my own thoughts into this very reasonable discussion.
[quote]LoRez wrote:
If you met some kid and he was hoping to run a 2 minute mile, would you be encourage that? Or would you attempt to set him straight on whatās been achieved so farā¦ and then wish him luck? Or really, how would you approach that? Genuinely curious.[/quote]
Hereās a more applicable āwhat ifā.
Take a kid like Spidey on this forum (no particular reason, just the first sort of new kid I thought of).
Say his goal was to bench a raw 800 lbs - a world record. (To my knowledge the raw WR is low 700ās)
Say his current bench is 185.
Would you NOT encourage that? I would say you say āFUCK YESā, but first, we get you to 190. Then 225, then ā¦
You donāt say āWell, thatās a world record and you donāt have the genetics to do it because nobody has ever done it and I have a chart of all recorded raw benchpress numbers here to show itā.
The only answer is āFUCK YES, YOU CAN DO THIS, NOW GO EATā.
Now, raw 800lb BP with #hawtabz at 10.0334534% BF ā weāll work on that a little laterā¦
[/quote]
Fuck yes. Finally someoneās talking some sense on here. At least someone gets it.
I think even considering limits is counterproductive to anyoneās mental attitude. You hammer home that table to a kid like that and heāll never know if he could have broken a world record because he will have given up long before he ever gets close to finding out.
No one exceptional ever achieved anything by thinking about what their limits were. It was the belief that they could achieve anything and that everyone who says otherwise can go fuck themselves that carried them there.
[/quote]
I agree. Iām pretty sure thatās what I said, but if not, that was what I meant by:
[quote]
There was a reason for the ācorrectionā. It wasnāt āit canāt be doneā, itās ādonāt focus on that now, until itās more attainable for youā. If the guy is currently running a 6 minute mile, itād probably be better to focus on the near term of getting a 5:30 mile, then a 5:00 mile, then 4:30, etc. Itās not āthereās no way youāll ever get a 2 minute mile so you should just give upā.
Likewise on the weight gain. Thereās nothing wrong with an extremely aggressive goal, but if youāre focusing ONLY on that goal without breaking it down into easier-to-achieve chunksā¦ for most peopleā¦ this just ends up causing discouragement and disappointment. For some, thatās exactly what they need for motivation, but for many, a series of smaller goals is a better route. [/quote]
Also
[quote]
Correct me if Iām wrong, but Iāve never seen it phrased as āno one can gain more than 80lbs lean massā, or really in any truly limiting phrasing.
Itās quite possible that some people phrase it that way, but Iāve never seen it written that way on these forums. As far as Iāve seen, itās been treated in the same way as any other ārecordā is in any other sportā¦ nothing more than āthis is the best thatās been done up until now.ā [/quote]
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
Why am I getting a feeling of deja vu.
S[/quote]
Deja Stu
[quote]LoRez wrote:
I agree. Iām pretty sure thatās what I said, but if not, that was what I meant by:
[/quote]
Sorry, language not my English is first.
[quote]SteelyD wrote:
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
Why am I getting a feeling of deja vu.
S[/quote]
Deja Stu[/quote]
Clever I like it
[quote]UtahLama wrote:
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
Why am I getting a feeling of deja vu.
S[/quote]
Yup[/quote]
Yesād Post
I think there is nothing wrong with aspiring to break limits, records, etc. Having a mindset that you will break those thresholds is almost a prerequisite to doing so.
But, there should be a distinction between having a killer mindset and understanding what most people are likely capable of.
For instance, somebody above mentioned the Spoto raw bench record. It is laudable if a powerlifting trainee aspires to break that record and has a mindset every day in the gym that they will eventually break that record. However, it is NOT laudable to believe, from an objective standpoint, that you are as likely as the next T-Nation member to break that record, generally speaking. If I sat here and told you I was going to break that record, without any stats, etc., I would deservedly be laughed at. Only a teeny tiny percentage of people will ever come close and only a handful out of millions will be potential record-breakers.
LBM Limits, in this context, are no different. They are like olympic records, powerlifting records, etc. They will be broken. Most records usually are. IF 60lbs was the all time record, eventually someone would come along with 60.1 lbs. But, that doesnāt mean, you, as a typical trainee, should believe, objectively, that 60.2 lbs of LBM is a reasonable goal. Itās not. You can aspire to it and have a positive attitude, but believing you are a likely candidate for doing so is kind of juvenile, IMO. Itās more sensible to look at what is typical. Even comparing against a 99 percentile bandwidth is far superior than eyeing extreme outliers.
I think all it does it set people up for failure and disappointment. For most people. I think being sensible about what is possible will keep you enjoying the pursuit for much longer.
[quote]SteelyD wrote:
If you met some kid and he was hoping to run a 2 minute mile, would you be encourage that? Or would you attempt to set him straight on whatās been achieved so farā¦ and then wish him luck? Or really, how would you approach that? Genuinely curious.
Hereās a more applicable āwhat ifā.
Take a kid like Spidey on this forum (no particular reason, just the first sort of new kid I thought of).
Say his goal was to bench a raw 800 lbs - a world record. (To my knowledge the raw WR is low 700ās)
Say his current bench is 185.
Would you NOT encourage that? I would say you say āFUCK YESā, but first, we get you to 190. Then 225, then ā¦
You donāt say āWell, thatās a world record and you donāt have the genetics to do it because nobody has ever done it and I have a chart of all recorded raw benchpress numbers here to show itā.
The only answer is āFUCK YES, YOU CAN DO THIS, NOW GO EATā.
Now, raw 800lb BP with #hawtabz at 10.0334534% BF ā weāll work on that a little laterā¦
[/quote]
That seems to be the difference between performance and aesthetics conversations. Not that thereās anything wrong with aesthetics but thereās more talk about potential when talking in those terms than when youāre talking about performance. Maybe itās because we all know that every record is going to be broken by someone and weāre all trying to break personal records.
james
[quote]atypical1 wrote:
That seems to be the difference between performance and aesthetics conversations. Not that thereās anything wrong with aesthetics but thereās more talk about potential when talking in those terms than when youāre talking about performance. Maybe itās because we all know that every record is going to be broken by someone and weāre all trying to break personal records.
james[/quote]
Good point. Now can someone answer me why some people canāt just accept this view on aesthetic training? Why can we not regard āthis is what has been done so farā and do our best to either beat those stats, or focus on constantly bettering our own? I think we all know deep down that no one can view into the DNA of every human being who will ever exist, so itās kinda silly to have that as the ultimate neg card.
S
and Oh yeah,ā¦ funny guy Steely! -lol
S
[quote]SteelyD wrote:
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
Why am I getting a feeling of deja vu.
S[/quote]
Deja Stu[/quote]
sounds brack
Why is Stu always Yellin? Weāre trying to have a civil conversation in here.
[quote]Mad Martigan wrote:
I think there is nothing wrong with aspiring to break limits, records, etc. Having a mindset that you will break those thresholds is almost a prerequisite to doing so.
But, there should be a distinction between having a killer mindset and understanding what most people are likely capable of.
For instance, somebody above mentioned the Spoto raw bench record. It is laudable if a powerlifting trainee aspires to break that record and has a mindset every day in the gym that they will eventually break that record. However, it is NOT laudable to believe, from an objective standpoint, that you are as likely as the next T-Nation member to break that record, generally speaking. If I sat here and told you I was going to break that record, without any stats, etc., I would deservedly be laughed at. Only a teeny tiny percentage of people will ever come close and only a handful out of millions will be potential record-breakers.
LBM Limits, in this context, are no different. They are like olympic records, powerlifting records, etc. They will be broken. Most records usually are. IF 60lbs was the all time record, eventually someone would come along with 60.1 lbs. But, that doesnāt mean, you, as a typical trainee, should believe, objectively, that 60.2 lbs of LBM is a reasonable goal. Itās not. You can aspire to it and have a positive attitude, but believing you are a likely candidate for doing so is kind of juvenile, IMO. Itās more sensible to look at what is typical. Even comparing against a 99 percentile bandwidth is far superior than eyeing extreme outliers.
I think all it does it set people up for failure and disappointment. For most people. I think being sensible about what is possible will keep you enjoying the pursuit for much longer.
[/quote]
Good points.
āAim for the starsā and all that but we are talking reality.
It doesnāt matter much because both sides have made up their minds and that isnāt going to change.
Some people even said that a natural could surpass Ronnie Colemanās physique.
Itās basically going round and round at this point with both camps circle jerking anyone who agrees with them lol
Agree to disagree and letās move on
[quote]super saiyan wrote:
Why is Stu always Yellin? Weāre trying to have a civil conversation in here.[/quote]
hurhur
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
[quote]atypical1 wrote:
That seems to be the difference between performance and aesthetics conversations. Not that thereās anything wrong with aesthetics but thereās more talk about potential when talking in those terms than when youāre talking about performance. Maybe itās because we all know that every record is going to be broken by someone and weāre all trying to break personal records.
james[/quote]
Good point. Now can someone answer me why some people canāt just accept this view on aesthetic training? Why can we not regard āthis is what has been done so farā and do our best to either beat those stats, or focus on constantly bettering our own? I think we all know deep down that no one can view into the DNA of every human being who will ever exist, so itās kinda silly to have that as the ultimate neg card.
S[/quote]
You can never truly compare yourself to someone in bbing becuse you will look different. You have differnt structure insertions ect.
Itās always a better yourself competition.
People do need to understand a natty will hit a wall itās basic physiology it will happen.
[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
I really like the scientific side of bodybuilding just as much as the actual training. Now i know these thread normally turn to shit really quick, but im hopping to have a decent discussion with minimal flaming.
now this is someone with elite genetics and access to just about any drug he wanted of that era. yet we have people on here who claim to have natural powerlifting friends who are 5ā7, 225lb and walk around at 6% bodyfat. FUCKING PLEASEā¦[/quote]
For me this first post set the stage wrong for me. First heās talking about bodybuilding then he mentions powerlifting. I honestly donāt know any powerlifters who can tell you their bodyfat percentages because it doesnāt matter. So you can take the xx % bodyfat with a huge grain of salt. Bodybuilders to care and do track it so itās going to be much more accurate and meaningful.
Youāre also going to have a different conversation (as Stu pointed out) if youāre talking about aesthetics than if youāre talking about performance. But I do think that you need to be careful about all the assumptions because thereās always exceptions to the rule.
I do like the idea that setting limits does inhibit what youāre going to do. While itās good to have a healthy dose of reality thrown in there you are probably best off not caring what someone tells you youāre capable of and just going for what you can.
james