What Naturals are Truly Capable of...

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

You should go read the last part of blue’s thread. He states he had been at the same weight yet his mass has been redistributed. Legs shrunk and upper body came up

I would argue that is what would happen in this case [/quote]

I do believe I asked Blue…not anyone else.[/quote]

I do believe this is a public forum. If you limited your responses to only those where someone was speaking directly to you then you probably wouldn’t have 50,000 posts.

[quote]bpick86 wrote:

However MassiveGuns 5’6" 220lb 6% year round natty friend is mythical. At least one, and most likely two of those descriptors is false.

[/quote]

This the physique ^^^^ that people laughed at being a year round natty.

NOBODY said that 5’10" 210lbs and 10% was impossible…on the contrary it is very attainable as a natty.

These threads get twisted so easily.

[quote]bpick86 wrote:

Yes but they did it while lifting weights as I am assuming Gooze has. It is pretty unbelievable although not entirely unfathomable that it could be done by strictly playing a sport without lifting a weight. On a side not, what wrestling or basketball program doesn’t lift weights? [/quote]

I don’t care to get into some squabble about hypotheticals. I have known people with genetics that passed this. I don’t have pictures or youtube vids and don’t care to argue whether they actually existed or if I dreamed them up.

It is a waste of internet bandwidth to keep that up.

[quote]bpick86 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]bpick86 wrote:
This “limit” is completely separate from the one we beat to death earlier first off. But yes, it would take a very large frame person to hit 210 6%bf @ 5’10". That being said, there have been some very successful naturally large framed body builders, Dave Draper comes to mind. Reg Park was very large framed back in the day. And the reason bodybuilders were used as a gauge to try to quantify “LBM potential” is because they are the ones that have come the closest to achieving that.[/quote]

No, by large I do not just mean big muscles or wide shoulders.

For instance, how tall are you and what is your shoe size?[/quote]

5’10.5" size 11.5 I also have small wrists and ankles but wide shoulders for my frame[/quote]

Understood.

I am almost as tall as you and wear a size 14 shoe.

That is why when people make these "lean body mass "claims, they need to understand actual human diversity.

[quote]super saiyan wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

You should go read the last part of blue’s thread. He states he had been at the same weight yet his mass has been redistributed. Legs shrunk and upper body came up

I would argue that is what would happen in this case [/quote]

I do believe I asked Blue…not anyone else.[/quote]

I do believe this is a public forum. If you limited your responses to only those where someone was speaking directly to you then you probably wouldn’t have 50,000 posts.[/quote]

Why keep this up?

I am trying to have a discussion with Blue…not the same “we” who keeps derailing every thread I post in.

Please take that shit somewhere else.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]super saiyan wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

You should go read the last part of blue’s thread. He states he had been at the same weight yet his mass has been redistributed. Legs shrunk and upper body came up

I would argue that is what would happen in this case [/quote]

I do believe I asked Blue…not anyone else.[/quote]

I do believe this is a public forum. If you limited your responses to only those where someone was speaking directly to you then you probably wouldn’t have 50,000 posts.[/quote]

Why keep this up?

I am trying to have a discussion with Blue…not the same “we” who keeps derailing every thread I post in.

Please take that shit somewhere else.[/quote]

Well a public forum isn’t the best place for a private conversation.

And many here have asked you to take your shit elsewhere, but it hasn’t stopped you yet.

@SS, Ryan, bpick, brick, utahlama
No one is allowed to comment, give insight or their thoughts about any post unless it is directly aimed at them.
Pls stop derailing this informative discussion.

[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
@SS, Ryan, bpick, brick, utahlama
No one is allowed to comment, give insight or their thoughts about any post unless it is directly aimed at them.
Pls stop derailing this informative discussion.[/quote]

Noted.

…and there goes the discussion.

Again…

I do believe Blue can carry himself much better than you two in a discussion…so please either allow the adults to have one…or quit fucking up threads with this.

It’s tired and none of you are funny. Let it go and grow up.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]bpick86 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]bpick86 wrote:
This “limit” is completely separate from the one we beat to death earlier first off. But yes, it would take a very large frame person to hit 210 6%bf @ 5’10". That being said, there have been some very successful naturally large framed body builders, Dave Draper comes to mind. Reg Park was very large framed back in the day. And the reason bodybuilders were used as a gauge to try to quantify “LBM potential” is because they are the ones that have come the closest to achieving that.[/quote]

No, by large I do not just mean big muscles or wide shoulders.

For instance, how tall are you and what is your shoe size?[/quote]

5’10.5" size 11.5 I also have small wrists and ankles but wide shoulders for my frame[/quote]

Understood.

I am almost as tall as you and wear a size 14 shoe.

That is why when people make these "lean body mass "claims, they need to understand actual human diversity.[/quote]

reposted due to dumbassery.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
…and there goes the discussion.

Again…

I do believe Blue is can carry himself much better than you two in a discussion…so please either allow the adults to have one…or quit fucking up threads with this.

It’s tired and none of you are funny.[/quote]

Nobody is attempting to speak for Blue; it’s a public forum.

This is funny coming from the guy who is king at f’ing up threads with his insults and nasty attitude.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
…and there goes the discussion.

Again…

I do believe Blue can carry himself much better than you two in a discussion…so please either allow the adults to have one…or quit fucking up threads with this.

It’s tired and none of you are funny. Let it go and grow up.[/quote]

Relax…there is zero personal attacks going on, the discussion is going just fine.

Maybe if you just chilled out and quit saying things like Oh, I don’t know…

  1. Go off on a rant while saying “some of you/many here/etc…” in order to avoid directly addressing anyone specific.
  2. Repeatedly quote the few who agree with him as proof that he is correct and say “good post” & “great points.”

IN every post you make.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]bpick86 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]bpick86 wrote:
This “limit” is completely separate from the one we beat to death earlier first off. But yes, it would take a very large frame person to hit 210 6%bf @ 5’10". That being said, there have been some very successful naturally large framed body builders, Dave Draper comes to mind. Reg Park was very large framed back in the day. And the reason bodybuilders were used as a gauge to try to quantify “LBM potential” is because they are the ones that have come the closest to achieving that.[/quote]

No, by large I do not just mean big muscles or wide shoulders.

For instance, how tall are you and what is your shoe size?[/quote]

5’10.5" size 11.5 I also have small wrists and ankles but wide shoulders for my frame[/quote]

Understood.

I am almost as tall as you and wear a size 14 shoe.

That is why when people make these "lean body mass "claims, they need to understand actual human diversity.[/quote]

I understand where you are coming from with that, and the Butts formula that I have referenced in other threads makes an effort to accommodate that with the wrist and ankle measurements however he (and I) acknowledge that there will be some variance for those with out of the norm proportions.

I think the limits argument is still valid however if start from the place that Brick suggested when he was discussing the limit, which was your fully matured self in an untrained state compared to your matured self in your currently trained state. I know you disagree with using that as a measuring stick and I will agree that it is a lot of conjecture in that but by using that formula saying 80lbs of muscle gains is unattainable is a pretty safe bet.

Again I know that you disagree with starting from that point but if one does start from that point then I think the limit is perfectly reasonable.

[quote]bpick86 wrote:

I understand where you are coming from with that, and the Butts formula that I have referenced in other threads makes an effort to accommodate that with the wrist and ankle measurements however he (and I) acknowledge that there will be some variance for those with out of the norm proportions. [/quote]

Actually, Casey Butts stated right here that his formula may not work for those of African descent.

His source of info would further call it into question.

[quote]

I think the limits argument is still valid however if start from the place that Brick suggested when he was discussing the limit, which was your fully matured self in an untrained state compared to your matured self in your currently trained state. I know you disagree with using that as a measuring stick and I will agree that it is a lot of conjecture in that but by using that formula saying 80lbs of muscle gains is unattainable is a pretty safe bet.

Again I know that you disagree with starting from that point but if one does start from that point then I think the limit is perfectly reasonable. [/quote]

You already should know that I would look at where the actual individual was at the age of adulthood.

I wouldn’t look at them as an adult…and then add weight to them for weight they are “supposed to gain” before they hit the age of 21.

That makes no sense.

So yes, I agree it is conjecture and nothing more.

Everyone doesn’t fit the same mould …thus why a guy as tall as you can have a shoe size damn near 3-4 sizes bigger.

Chances are, he can hold more “lean body mass” than you…even if you won the best natural bodybuilding contest in the world.

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
@SS, Ryan, bpick, brick, utahlama
No one is allowed to comment, give insight or their thoughts about any post unless it is directly aimed at them.
Pls stop derailing this informative discussion.[/quote]

Noted.[/quote]
@ss
This was said in jest but I’m serious about the context.
If people didn’t respond to X’s posts unless he was talking to them and X didn’t respond to people’s posts unless they were talking to him the massive derail pissing matches would stop.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

You should go read the last part of blue’s thread. He states he had been at the same weight yet his mass has been redistributed. Legs shrunk and upper body came up

I would argue that is what would happen in this case [/quote]

I do believe I asked Blue…not anyone else.[/quote]

How was anything about my post not handled in a an adult matter and how was I speaking for him. These are things he said in his thread. Just go read them

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

You should go read the last part of blue’s thread. He states he had been at the same weight yet his mass has been redistributed. Legs shrunk and upper body came up

I would argue that is what would happen in this case [/quote]

I do believe I asked Blue…not anyone else.[/quote]

How was anything about my post not handled in a an adult matter and how was I speaking for him. These are things he said in his thread. Just go read them[/quote]

We are on page two…after Blue made a comment…of guys like you complaining that I want a response from Blue and not you.

How long do you want to keep that up, guy?

Blue made a comment…and I questioned that comment. You didn’t come into the picture at all.

[quote]bpick86 wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]Smashingweights wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
No but we do know how to read better enough and comprehend what he writes
[/quote]
Ryan, what where do you draw the Natty Line in The Sand between believable, questionable, no way Jose?
Hypothetically speaking and obviously this isn’t 100% set in stone.
I would be interested in hearing some hypothetical numbers.[/quote]

Already stated 3lbs per inch lean. [/quote]

The suggestion is to start with 5’0" as a base height and 100 pounds as a base weight. Then add 10 pounds for every inch of height above 5’0" for a medium bone structure, 8 pounds for a small structure, and 12 pounds for a large structure. Above 5’9" add only half those amounts. A person of 5’9" with a medium structure would weigh 190 pounds. A person of 6’1" with a large structure would weigh 232 pounds. This is a worthwhile refinement of the simple linear approach, but becomes inaccurate when dealing with very large and/or very small structured people

This is just a quick off the cuff estimate proposed by Stuart McRobert based off a similar formula Steve Reeves used.[/quote]

Hate it when posts come up late. I like this

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

You should go read the last part of blue’s thread. He states he had been at the same weight yet his mass has been redistributed. Legs shrunk and upper body came up

I would argue that is what would happen in this case [/quote]

I do believe I asked Blue…not anyone else.[/quote]

How was anything about my post not handled in a an adult matter and how was I speaking for him. These are things he said in his thread. Just go read them[/quote]

We are on page two…after Blue made a comment…of guys like you complaining that I want a response from Blue and not you.

How long do you want to keep that up, guy?

Blue made a comment…and I questioned that comment. You didn’t come into the picture at all.[/quote]

You such a derogatory asshole it boggles my mind.

In summary, it took over a decade and 34 pages in this very thread to remember that a big foot is proof that one can pass every attainable natural muscle building limit ever. Dummies.