[quote]Waittz wrote:
Also, most Pro Physique guys look like bodybuilders, they just are not pushing 250+ contest shape or short dudes pushing the 220s. Basically the guys who have good physique, just cant compete with the sheer size of the pro level 212’s or heavyweights. [/quote]
Nothing that ensures the Physique guys are natural either.
It is interesting to consider that in 1988 the Mr Olimpia runner-up had a stage weight of 209lbs (Gaspari) and the #4 finisher weighed 176 (Labrada).
[/quote]
the physique guys are most certainly not natural…
if a comp is not tested… it’s essentially guaranteed that everyone is using… even if it is tested… everyone is probably doing all they can to cheat without getting caught[/quote]
agrrrreeeeed[/quote]
if ya aint cheaten ya aint trying! [/quote]
Just breaks my heart how gullible newbs are when it comes to believing celebs and fitness models are natty, I’ve had people try and argue with me that Dwayne Johnson is 100% drug free[/quote]
[quote]Waittz wrote:
Also, most Pro Physique guys look like bodybuilders, they just are not pushing 250+ contest shape or short dudes pushing the 220s. Basically the guys who have good physique, just cant compete with the sheer size of the pro level 212’s or heavyweights. [/quote]
Nothing that ensures the Physique guys are natural either.
It is interesting to consider that in 1988 the Mr Olimpia runner-up had a stage weight of 209lbs (Gaspari) and the #4 finisher weighed 176 (Labrada).
[/quote]
the physique guys are most certainly not natural…
if a comp is not tested… it’s essentially guaranteed that everyone is using… even if it is tested… everyone is probably doing all they can to cheat without getting caught[/quote]
agrrrreeeeed[/quote]
if ya aint cheaten ya aint trying! [/quote]
Just breaks my heart how gullible newbs are when it comes to believing celebs and fitness models are natty, I’ve had people try and argue with me that Dwayne Johnson is 100% drug free[/quote]
[quote]Waittz wrote:
Also, most Pro Physique guys look like bodybuilders, they just are not pushing 250+ contest shape or short dudes pushing the 220s. Basically the guys who have good physique, just cant compete with the sheer size of the pro level 212’s or heavyweights. [/quote]
Nothing that ensures the Physique guys are natural either.
It is interesting to consider that in 1988 the Mr Olimpia runner-up had a stage weight of 209lbs (Gaspari) and the #4 finisher weighed 176 (Labrada).
[/quote]
the physique guys are most certainly not natural…
if a comp is not tested… it’s essentially guaranteed that everyone is using… even if it is tested… everyone is probably doing all they can to cheat without getting caught[/quote]
agrrrreeeeed[/quote]
if ya aint cheaten ya aint trying! [/quote]
Just breaks my heart how gullible newbs are when it comes to believing celebs and fitness models are natty, I’ve had people try and argue with me that Dwayne Johnson is 100% drug free[/quote]
…it breaks your heart?[/quote]
Yup :)[/quote]
He’s admitted steroid use when he was in his early twenties.
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
Hey Stu, how much confidence do you have in those top dogs actually being natty? How stringent are the WNBF’s testing methods? I have no clue, but can’t image that they have enough funding to do extensive testing. Out-of-competition testing?
ps: I think I have to alter my statement slightly regarding natties and legs in the other thread.[/quote]
I have geared friends who do drug tested shows all the time. I tell them that they are morons. If they are gonna gear (I have no problems with that) then enter a non-tested show. Most of the competitors in tested shows are geared up anyway. It’s like the assholes who hack xbox live Call of Duty LOL
[quote]dnlcdstn wrote:
I’d like to know who is natural and who isn’t on this forum. I’ve found that a lot of dudes I thought natural are not.[/quote]
[/quote]
[quote]Waittz wrote:
So here are two questions, part science and part rhetorical/philosophical.
Not what limits us, but why are we as humans limited to a degree as a natural trainee to perpetual gains in muscle growth and strength? Why is it that at some point our bodies will not allow us to continue to make large and noticable gains in that area yet with the simple introduction of a few hormones the rules then instantly break? What purpose does our internal deisgn serve to prevent this? Again, not what does it, buy why does it occur?
Now again we can debate if there is or is not a ‘limit’ until we are blue in the face, but we all(well most of us) can agree that for the natural trainee there is a limit of gains where that trainee will then start to experience dimishing results to an exponential degree in size and stregth. Where or what that said point is I am not really interested in discussing. Kind of like knowing when you die in the event that it will be unavoidable, I’d rather not know. But my second question is what role does advanced training technique, supplements, advanced recovery techinques(things like hyperbaric chambers etc) play in those limits? Does it push us past? Or does it just get us to that point of diminishing returns faster? [/quote]
I thought this interesting
First I think there is no survival advantage ti being huge so there has been no evolutionary need to support that. The body tends to homeostasis and adding hormones breaks that
Second I suspect all the advanced supps etc both push the boundary a little and speed up the journey there a little
[quote]Waittz wrote:
Also, most Pro Physique guys look like bodybuilders, they just are not pushing 250+ contest shape or short dudes pushing the 220s. Basically the guys who have good physique, just cant compete with the sheer size of the pro level 212’s or heavyweights. [/quote]
Nothing that ensures the Physique guys are natural either.
It is interesting to consider that in 1988 the Mr Olimpia runner-up had a stage weight of 209lbs (Gaspari) and the #4 finisher weighed 176 (Labrada).
[/quote]
thats sort of what i was getting at with the frank zane example, guy was 3 times mr Olympia yet only competed at 185.
I’ve always wondered what Zane in his prime would look like next to guys like Cordova, Doug Miller, Hayzer… Have training methods really evolved? Do we just understand things better? OTC supplements?
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
I’ve always wondered what Zane in his prime would look like next to guys like Cordova, Doug Miller, Hayzer… Have training methods really evolved? Do we just understand things better? OTC supplements?
S[/quote]
interesting point. You see the routines some old timey lifters did and they just look insane
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
I’ve always wondered what Zane in his prime would look like next to guys like Cordova, Doug Miller, Hayzer… Have training methods really evolved? Do we just understand things better? OTC supplements?
S[/quote]
interesting point. You see the routines some old timey lifters did and they just look insane[/quote]
That’s why many of them didn’t really do any cardio.
I’m curious what the differences are as well, besides using more drugs. They certainly knew how to eat and how to train intensely, but there still weren’t really any mass monsters until Haney.
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
I’ve always wondered what Zane in his prime would look like next to guys like Cordova, Doug Miller, Hayzer… Have training methods really evolved? Do we just understand things better? OTC supplements?
S[/quote]
interesting point. You see the routines some old timey lifters did and they just look insane[/quote]
That’s why many of them didn’t really do any cardio.
I’m curious what the differences are as well, besides using more drugs. They certainly knew how to eat and how to train intensely, but there still weren’t really any mass monsters until Haney.[/quote]
Maybe it is just as simple as more drugs and more food? I highly doubt it was NO Explode.
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
I’ve always wondered what Zane in his prime would look like next to guys like Cordova, Doug Miller, Hayzer… Have training methods really evolved? Do we just understand things better? OTC supplements?
S[/quote]
interesting point. You see the routines some old timey lifters did and they just look insane[/quote]
That’s why many of them didn’t really do any cardio.
I’m curious what the differences are as well, besides using more drugs. They certainly knew how to eat and how to train intensely, but there still weren’t really any mass monsters until Haney.[/quote]
Maybe it is just as simple as more drugs and more food? I highly doubt it was NO Explode. [/quote]
[quote]dnlcdstn wrote:
I’d like to know who is natural and who isn’t on this forum. I’ve found that a lot of dudes I thought natural are not.[/quote]
I’m not a natural… I eat bacon…
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
I’ve always wondered what Zane in his prime would look like next to guys like Cordova, Doug Miller, Hayzer… Have training methods really evolved? Do we just understand things better? OTC supplements?
S[/quote]
interesting point. You see the routines some old timey lifters did and they just look insane[/quote]
That’s why many of them didn’t really do any cardio.
I’m curious what the differences are as well, besides using more drugs. They certainly knew how to eat and how to train intensely, but there still weren’t really any mass monsters until Haney.[/quote]
Maybe it is just as simple as more drugs and more food? I highly doubt it was NO Explode. [/quote]
I’m curious what the differences are as well, besides using more drugs. They certainly knew how to eat and how to train intensely, but there still weren’t really any mass monsters until Haney.[/quote]
the old school dudes put a massive emphasis on keeping the waist small. Once that line of thinking was abandoned it meant people could push the envelope more in terms of size
