Shit I don’t even truly respect getting into medical school becuse plenty of ppl in my class did that on top of so many other things. Makes me look like I have done nothing
@steven-Ha, what makes you think that? No, I’m from the States. If I had to guess, I would say that it has something to do with my major being English Literature with a minor in Creative Writing. I feel like that has aided in my becoming an articulate speaker.
[quote]J. Prufrock wrote:
@steven-Ha, what makes you think that? No, I’m from the States. If I had to guess, I would say that it has something to do with my major being English Literature with a minor in Creative Writing. I feel like that has aided in my becoming an articulate speaker.[/quote]
LOL I must confess it was indeed your writing style that made me think you were a Brit but that isn’t to say your fellow citizens aren’t articulate, LOL. Some of the best writers here are Yanks.
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Shit I don’t even truly respect getting into medical school becuse plenty of ppl in my class did that on top of so many other things. Makes me look like I have done nothing [/quote]
I’m the same where the core principle is concerned (regardless of my starting point). I’m taking advantage everything I can get my hands on in order to develop myself.
[quote]spar4tee wrote:
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Shit I don’t even truly respect getting into medical school becuse plenty of ppl in my class did that on top of so many other things. Makes me look like I have done nothing [/quote]
I’m the same where the core principle is concerned (regardless of my starting point). I’m taking advantage everything I can get my hands on in order to develop myself.[/quote]
As you should
@steven-Agreed.
[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
[quote]gswork wrote:
Isn’t all this college stuff a semantic mux up, should have said undergraduate and postgraduate
Both achievable by naturals btw, bringing us back on track… yay![/quote]
Sort of but not totally.
I stated, as someone who has taken more than one college nutrition class, that saying you took nutrition classes in college doesn’t mean anything because what they teach is so back asswards when it comes to what we know as weightlifters.
I.E. fats are bad! Don’t eat more than 1g of protein per pound or your kidneys will shut down!
That sort of thing.
I said that taking those classes in no way makes you an expert as most here know because I’m guessing almost all of us who went to college took those classes and know how BS they are.
Getting a degree as a Nutrionist/RD is obviously different because you go WAY more into it and that is their “craft.”
Then the good doctor(or surgeon. We still haven’t cleared that up yet) said he studied nutrition at a much higher level way past college.
That brought up the question of “what is a much higher level way past college?”
Does that make sense?[/quote]
A “much higher level way past college” means graduate school, be it medical, dental, or science-related doctoral programs. While these degrees are awarded by colleges, to make the claim that coursework from such programs is in any way equivalent to undergraduate coursework is laughable.
Medical and dental schools put their students through graduate level anatomy, biochemistry, nutrition, and physiology courses that far eclipse in their depth AND breadth anything an undergraduate would learn. There is a reason medical school is considered difficult, and it’s because its rigorous coursework is not completable by all.
As an MD, I respect what X has to say, because the guy has the best of both worlds: he has the medical level coursework training, as well as a hell of a lot of progress in the gym. He has a perspective on the physiology of the human body that, quite frankly, very few others on this site have. Unless you have graduated from medical or dental school, you simply haven’t the foggiest idea of what those accomplishments take, or the knowledge imparted on you by graduation.
Does X have the physique of a bodybuilder? No. Can he be crass and obnoxious? Sure! But I would be too if I had five different people denigrating me in various ways on every post I made, be it mocking his profession, physique, or in this case, even education. The point is that if you want bodybuilding information, go ahead and ask Stu or zraw, as they clearly have been very successful in that regard, however, if you want the opinion of someone with intimate understanding of human physiology as it pertains to muscle building, give me the guy with the medical degree who is also 250+ pounds. That’s not to say that those with undergraduate nutrition or kinesiology degrees don’t know anything about physiology (because that would be stupid), but rather, until anyone else has completed the coursework at such a medical level, why would you assume to know more?
And to answer your other question, a DDS or DMD (dental degree) has the ability to do post-graduate residency training in oral maxillofacial surgery, endodontics, orthodontics, etc. Any of these could be considered an oral surgeon, and once the training is completed, the candidate becomes a fully licensed, independent practitioner of whatever craft they’ve chosen.
Carry on.
While I agree that medical school and pharmacy and vet school and law are much above undergrad and I am sure dentistry is too, its the running joke between pharm and med students that dentistry is for those who couldn’t make into any of the others. Mean? Sure. True? For some.
Anyways dentistry will not give a large in depth coverage of the physiology of the body. So to say his knowledge is superior to many because of being a dentist is absurd. And the same thing about docs. Many I am sorry to say are down right dumb.
[quote]mezcal wrote:
[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
[quote]gswork wrote:
Isn’t all this college stuff a semantic mux up, should have said undergraduate and postgraduate
Both achievable by naturals btw, bringing us back on track… yay![/quote]
Sort of but not totally.
I stated, as someone who has taken more than one college nutrition class, that saying you took nutrition classes in college doesn’t mean anything because what they teach is so back asswards when it comes to what we know as weightlifters.
I.E. fats are bad! Don’t eat more than 1g of protein per pound or your kidneys will shut down!
That sort of thing.
I said that taking those classes in no way makes you an expert as most here know because I’m guessing almost all of us who went to college took those classes and know how BS they are.
Getting a degree as a Nutrionist/RD is obviously different because you go WAY more into it and that is their “craft.”
Then the good doctor(or surgeon. We still haven’t cleared that up yet) said he studied nutrition at a much higher level way past college.
That brought up the question of “what is a much higher level way past college?”
Does that make sense?[/quote]
A “much higher level way past college” means graduate school, be it medical, dental, or science-related doctoral programs. While these degrees are awarded by colleges, to make the claim that coursework from such programs is in any way equivalent to undergraduate coursework is laughable.
Medical and dental schools put their students through graduate level anatomy, biochemistry, nutrition, and physiology courses that far eclipse in their depth AND breadth anything an undergraduate would learn. There is a reason medical school is considered difficult, and it’s because its rigorous coursework is not completable by all.
As an MD, I respect what X has to say, because the guy has the best of both worlds: he has the medical level coursework training, as well as a hell of a lot of progress in the gym. He has a perspective on the physiology of the human body that, quite frankly, very few others on this site have. Unless you have graduated from medical or dental school, you simply haven’t the foggiest idea of what those accomplishments take, or the knowledge imparted on you by graduation.
Does X have the physique of a bodybuilder? No. Can he be crass and obnoxious? Sure! But I would be too if I had five different people denigrating me in various ways on every post I made, be it mocking his profession, physique, or in this case, even education. The point is that if you want bodybuilding information, go ahead and ask Stu or zraw, as they clearly have been very successful in that regard, however, if you want the opinion of someone with intimate understanding of human physiology as it pertains to muscle building, give me the guy with the medical degree who is also 250+ pounds. That’s not to say that those with undergraduate nutrition or kinesiology degrees don’t know anything about physiology (because that would be stupid), but rather, until anyone else has completed the coursework at such a medical level, why would you assume to know more?
And to answer your other question, a DDS or DMD (dental degree) has the ability to do post-graduate residency training in oral maxillofacial surgery, endodontics, orthodontics, etc. Any of these could be considered an oral surgeon, and once the training is completed, the candidate becomes a fully licensed, independent practitioner of whatever craft they’ve chosen.
Carry on.[/quote]
Good post.
I can never quite fathom why anyone would try to denigrate PX’s achievement in his medical profession. It adds fuck all to any discussion about bodybuilding and also tries to take away from someone a very really and notable achievement.
Whatever you feel about the paucity of PX’s knowledge in bodybuilding it remains to be said he is an educated man and it does this forum no favours whatsoever to pour scorn on his achievements in the medical field.
Hell, I reckon it must take a load of study over many years to become a dentist so hats off to him.
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
While I agree that medical school and pharmacy and vet school and law are much above undergrad and I am sure dentistry is too, its the running joke between pharm and med students that dentistry is for those who couldn’t make into any of the others. Mean? Sure. True? For some.
Anyways dentistry will not give a large in depth coverage of the physiology of the body. So to say his knowledge is superior to many because of being a dentist is absurd. And the same thing about docs. Many I am sorry to say are down right dumb. [/quote]
I agree that many who go dental did so because they couldn’t go med, but that’s certainly not everyone. Some may have had a family member in the business, a good mentor who was a dentist, a positive experience, whatever.
You’d be surprised just how much the dental curriculum resembles your own. Is it AS in depth as medical? I don’t know, because I have only done allopathic medicine, but I remember talking to my dental school colleagues and being very surprised at how sharp their knowledge of physiology was. Dental school is NOT limited to things relevant to the mouth.
And two things about your last statement. First, I agree with the premise that some healthcare practitioners know very little about weight training and building a muscular physique. However, I think we can clearly agree that X isn’t one of those people, so that fact isn’t relevant. Second, if I recall correctly I read that you are finishing up first year now, right? Trust me, those docs who you are saying are “dumb” still have a fund of knowledge infinitely greater than yours. I don’t mean this as a slight since you only have one year under your belt, but what you’ll find as the years go on is that remembering the name of an obscure enzyme or reaction intermediate from biochemistry isn’t going to make you a good physician. I thought I was the smartest guy in the world after I crushed Step I, and I couldn’t believe how many mechanisms and other things that some attendings didn’t remember on the wards. But trust me, you really just don’t know how much you don’t know. Respect your colleagues, and always approach them as if you can learn something from them. I assure you that you will emerge a more competent clinician with that attitude. All the best.
mezcal, good stuff. If I may: You seem to have trained in the States (eg, you took the Step exams), but your TN info indicates an English residence. Are you practicing over there?
[quote]EyeDentist wrote:
mezcal, good stuff. If I may: You seem to have trained in the States (eg, you took the Step exams), but your TN info indicates an English residence. Are you practicing over there?[/quote]
Not updated. I lived in the UK for a year previously (at the time I signed up for this site), but I presently practice in Connecticut.
Edit: in the interest of full disclosure, when I say practice, I’m currently a resident
[quote]mezcal wrote:
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
While I agree that medical school and pharmacy and vet school and law are much above undergrad and I am sure dentistry is too, its the running joke between pharm and med students that dentistry is for those who couldn’t make into any of the others. Mean? Sure. True? For some.
Anyways dentistry will not give a large in depth coverage of the physiology of the body. So to say his knowledge is superior to many because of being a dentist is absurd. And the same thing about docs. Many I am sorry to say are down right dumb. [/quote]
I agree that many who go dental did so because they couldn’t go med, but that’s certainly not everyone. Some may have had a family member in the business, a good mentor who was a dentist, a positive experience, whatever.
You’d be surprised just how much the dental curriculum resembles your own. Is it AS in depth as medical? I don’t know, because I have only done allopathic medicine, but I remember talking to my dental school colleagues and being very surprised at how sharp their knowledge of physiology was. Dental school is NOT limited to things relevant to the mouth.
And two things about your last statement. First, I agree with the premise that some healthcare practitioners know very little about weight training and building a muscular physique. However, I think we can clearly agree that X isn’t one of those people, so that fact isn’t relevant. Second, if I recall correctly I read that you are finishing up first year now, right? Trust me, those docs who you are saying are “dumb” still have a fund of knowledge infinitely greater than yours. I don’t mean this as a slight since you only have one year under your belt, but what you’ll find as the years go on is that remembering the name of an obscure enzyme or reaction intermediate from biochemistry isn’t going to make you a good physician. I thought I was the smartest guy in the world after I crushed Step I, and I couldn’t believe how many mechanisms and other things that some attendings didn’t remember on the wards. But trust me, you really just don’t know how much you don’t know. Respect your colleagues, and always approach them as if you can learn something from them. I assure you that you will emerge a more competent clinician with that attitude. All the best.[/quote]
I know they cover more than the mouth but it will not be on the level of a many other PhDs (obv depending on field) and oharmach students. It’s like an upper level phys course from undergrad. You will know much more than the general population but little compared to many others. Again just my opinion.
I wasn’t just commenting in docs and muscular ppl. Just docs in general.
I think it’s funny you think I am talking myself up and feel like know a shit ton. I feel 100% inadequate I realize I don’t know jack shit. But I still can pick out terrible doctors and ppl in my class and the class above me that are just plain stupid. And you also pointed out what I hate the most about first year half of the basic science shit we learn means nothing for real world practice. Just because someone is a doctor does not mean they get my respect they have to earn it just like everyone else.
Does hiring a tutor revoke natty status?
I have to say that I agree with a great deal of the statements made by mezcal thus far. I mean, really, when it comes down to people trying to debase X’s achievements, whether it be professional/physique/etc., I feel that the thread has run its course and gone rather sour. Do I think that X can be stubborn and abrasive? Oh, hell yes. However, do I also agree with his stance on many a bodybuilding topic? Yep. I have always said that I respect X’s physique but not his attitude. I stand by that.
Lastly, in regards to mezcal stating that he would rather have X’s opinion on matters a majority of the time, I will say this: While X obviously knows what his goals are and how to achieve them, I don’t feel like he is a good mentor like he seems to try and be. I’ve read through a great many of his post and, to be honest, he never really gives any advice that isn’t already easily accessible. His answer to almost every situation is eat more and not worry about fat gain too much when your goal is “really big muscles”. Really? Who doesn’t know that they need to eat more to gain weight?
Personally, I feel that posters such as Stu, Zraw, etc. have much more to offer because of the fact that they have walked the walk when it comes to dieting/building a proportionate physique/etc., while X has not. If I was a fresh new lifter, meaning a complete greenhorn, I would absolutely listen to what X has to say. However, anything past that point, and I would look to more accomplished lifters such as those that I have already mentioned. I am not, repeat, not trying to diminish what X has done. He is veteran in the iron game. But, when all is said and done, he really doesn’t possess any knowledge that I would consider useful to intermediate lifters and above.
[quote]Waittz wrote:
Does hiring a tutor revoke natty status?[/quote]
Well, if you use g4p to acquire the funds for that tutor, you become 1/2 natty like Matt Ogus.
[quote]J. Prufrock wrote:
I have to say that I agree with a great deal of the statements made by mezcal thus far. I mean, really, when it comes down to people trying to debase X’s achievements, whether it be professional/physique/etc., I feel that the thread has run its course and gone rather sour. Do I think that X can be stubborn and abrasive? Oh, hell yes. However, do I also agree with his stance on many a bodybuilding topic? Yep. I have always said that I respect X’s physique but not his attitude. I stand by that.
Lastly, in regards to mezcal stating that he would rather have X’s opinion on matters a majority of the time, I will say this: While X obviously knows what his goals are and how to achieve them, I don’t feel like he is a good mentor like he seems to try and be. I’ve read through a great many of his post and, to be honest, he never really gives any advice that isn’t already easily accessible. His answer to almost every situation is eat more and not worry about fat gain too much when your goal is “really big muscles”. Really? Who doesn’t know that they need to eat more to gain weight?
Personally, I feel that posters such as Stu, Zraw, etc. have much more to offer because of the fact that they have walked the walk when it comes to dieting/building a proportionate physique/etc., while X has not. If I was a fresh new lifter, meaning a complete greenhorn, I would absolutely listen to what X has to say. However, anything past that point, and I would look to more accomplished lifters such as those that I have already mentioned. I am not, repeat, not trying to diminish what X has done. He is veteran in the iron game. But, when all is said and done, he really doesn’t possess any knowledge that I would consider useful to intermediate lifters and above.[/quote]
Have you read what X has to say for beginning lifters concerning training and nutrition, particularly when I questioned him on it numerous times?
People don’t need ANY degree to understand ENOUGH about physiology to be a great contest prep coach or trainer.
I have an undergraduate degree in nutrition, registration as dietitian, and a masters degree in nutrition and exercise physiology. I’d know enough to get where I am and have been at physically or to train someone WITHOUT these degrees.
Yeah, it was cool to learn a ton and it trained me for my career positions in clinical and corporate dietetics and foodservice management and it adds to my knowledge for sports nutrition, but for bodybuilding and sports nutrition, one can accrue the needed knowledge from reading books and articles and going to the gym and experience.
Shelby, JM, CT, Stu, Skip, Scott Abel, Chris Aceto, Tom Venuto, Dan Duchaine, and so on - none had or have a medical degree, nor did they or do they need ANY advanced degree to do what they are doing or did. What someone learns in a clinical nutrition, biology, or anatomy course in school has almost nothing to do with real world application in bodybuilding and sports, and this is coming from someone whose majority of coursework dealt with these subjects.
@Brick-What did he say exactly? I’m curious.
FTR, I in no way degraded or debase X’s college (and much higher level) education.