What I've Picked Up Along The Way

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]PB Andy wrote:
This whole carbless post-workout thing is very interesting. I was talking with BBB and he firmly believes in it and because of that, I will take his advice and try it out over the next few weeks and gauge my progress/fat loss… definitely have some fat to lose. How’s this look for a typical John Meadows-type workout?

Meal 1: 4 whole XL eggs, spinach, cooked w/ coconut oil, 1/2 cup oats w/ 1 scoop of Metabolic Drive, 1/2 cup blueberries [carb count: 37g]

60 mins pre-workout: MAG-10 pulse, 1 Finibar [carb count: 50g]

During workout: 2-3 scoops Plazma depending on workout [carb count: 76-113g]

60 mins post-workout: MAG-10 pulse [carb count: 11g]

Total carbs pre/peri-workout and for the day: 211g carbs (Right now I am about 225 lbs)

Rest of my meals: protein + fat [grass-fed meats, leaner cuts of turkey/chicken, avocado/nuts/olive oil, unlimited veggies]

[/quote]

that amount of carbs looks good for a back day or a leg day. consider adjusting them for smaller bodyparts[/quote]
Cool. Yeah it’d be around 174g carbs for say, an Arms day or Chest/Shoulder pump day.

The3Commandments, i will respond to the questions that weren’t actually asked though, and address the concerns that weren’t actually raised, just for the sake of the thread.

When eating with clients/supervisors, go with things that are cooked with the least amount of oil, as restaurants will almost ALWAYS use things like canola/safflower oil, etc.

do not eat their bread, as bread is…basically just plain bad for you.

i can almost assure you that any seafood dish is overpriced, and farm-raised, and should be avoided as a result (farm-raised is disgusting, and unhealthy)

an optimal meal would be something like - a grilled chicken breast salad, or a grilled chicken breast sandwich (remove the bread)

for on the road, if you for some reason cannot pack a chicken breast with coconut oil and spinach in tupperware, consider:

-stopping at a trader joe’s or something similar

-picking up a can opener (i keep one in my car for such occasions)

-getting a can (or more, depending on the length of the trip) of wild caught tuna/salmon, and some organic blueberries

thinking like this will help you greatly in your body composition-related goals. especially considering the alternative “food” choices

as for stopping carb cravings, i would advice coconut oil with chocolate flavored whey, in a shake. Tastes delicious, and is not carbs.

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

for on the road, if you for some reason cannot pack a chicken breast with coconut oil and spinach in tupperware, consider:

-stopping at a trader joe’s or something similar

-picking up a can opener (i keep one in my car for such occasions)

-getting a can (or more, depending on the length of the trip) of wild caught tuna/salmon, and some organic blueberries

as for stopping carb cravings, i would advice coconut oil with chocolate flavored whey, in a shake. Tastes delicious, and is not carbs.[/quote]

thanks. those are the type of suggestions i was looking for. and by on the road i kind of meant, running errands that took you longer than you thought and didnt pack a meal for. or food choices at school if you didnt pack a meal, or lunches at work if you didnt have time to pack a lunch, etc. not actually road trip on the road, lol.

will try coconut oil and chocolate whey.

[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

for on the road, if you for some reason cannot pack a chicken breast with coconut oil and spinach in tupperware, consider:

-stopping at a trader joe’s or something similar

-picking up a can opener (i keep one in my car for such occasions)

-getting a can (or more, depending on the length of the trip) of wild caught tuna/salmon, and some organic blueberries

as for stopping carb cravings, i would advice coconut oil with chocolate flavored whey, in a shake. Tastes delicious, and is not carbs.[/quote]

thanks. those are the type of suggestions i was looking for. and by on the road i kind of meant, running errands that took you longer than you thought and didnt pack a meal for. or food choices at school if you didnt pack a meal, or lunches at work if you didnt have time to pack a lunch, etc. not actually road trip on the road, lol.

will try coconut oil and chocolate whey.[/quote]

i apologize for my rough response, i primarly post on AAS boards, and have to deal with a TON of stupid kids asking stupid questions…wears through my patience quickly.

feel free to ask more questions by all means

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]fisch wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
i would strongly advise waiting a tiny bit longer, and having a whole food meal - chicken/white rice/coconut oil (white rice is a simple carb yes, but the protein and fats will slow the digestion and resulting BG impact)

i would use branch-chain cyclic dextrins as found in anaconda, or something similar. There are MANY superior carb sources to dextrose and maltodextrin. [/quote]

So wake up,
75 mins pre-workout: chicken/rice/oil meal
during: 30-50g carbs, 20g whey hydrosylate + 4.5g leucine
20 mins after: 30g whey +4.5 leucine

Or would any of the shakes change due to the chicken/rice/oil meal? Like would you reduce the carbs or protein in the pre WO shake since your already getting some from the chicken/rice?
[/quote]

there ya go, i suppose dextrose would be fine for your peri-workout, especially if cost is an issue.

[/quote]
cool thanks

Great post!

What I could add is that there are better fat souurrces out there than coconut oils. Coconut are medium chain saturated fatty acids. I can understand the use of medium chain FA for bodybuilding purposes. These are absorbed in the blood stream a lot easier than long chain fatty acids but it is still a saturated fat. It is better than animal saturated fats.

EDIT: Mr. W that comment wasn’t directed to you really but just a little tidbit as it looks like you know you know your stuff quite well.

Again, great posts. Since you are a Meadows fan can I get your take on eating super duper organic heathly along with using synthetic hormones. I realize JM has digestive issues and anything you can do to prevent or reduce possible sides is great, but the two seems counterintuitive. What is your take?

SOME THOUGHTS FROM YESTERDAY’S AND TODAY’S TRAINING:

YESTERDAY: was back day.

I followed my typical setup, rows first, mid/lower trap activation SS with bb shrugs

since i had my trap fibers activated, i decided to follow up with some rack pulls (as i really want to add considerable to my every dimension traps)…

I got set up to pull (from a couple inches below the knee), then i thought to myself, “everyone seems to be so concerned with pulling the weight, lifting it up and down as opposed to contracting their muscles”.

long story short, after squeezing my lats and traps (same principle as flexing hamstrings before SLDL), i decided to perform my rack pulls with my scapulae COMPLETELY retracted throughout the entirety of the movement, lifting and lowering the weight Slowly, controlling every inch of the motion, for higher than typical reps (8-10)

Of course, this meant i could not handle nearly as much weight, but bodybuilding is not about lifting heavy.

This movement felt absolutely incredible. I then moved on to my standard neutral grip pulldown variation after my work sets on my rack pulls were complete

I woke up this morning, and all of my trap fibers, upper, middle, and lower, absolutely STUNG when i performed any movement of my arms/shoulders that recruited them… (they quite literally… stung)

i was very worried that i had damaged my spine… but quickly realized (after rotating my head/moving neck without any measure of pain), that i had simply severely brutalized my traps.

While of course, DOMS is not any indication of a good session, i am led to believe that this is how deadlift variations are meant to be performed… i will certainly be performing mine in this fashion from now on.

which leads me to TODAY: shoulders and arms

because of the sensitive condition of my traps, i had to put in extra effort to avoid their recruitment during my shoulder workout (if my muscles are really sore, i tend to feel them more even though im not trying to target them).

This led me to perform my lateral raise variation on the lateral raise machine (i almost never use this machine, and when i do… i never grab the handles that the machine provides, opting instead to grab the moving arms themselves). Remembering the form that john meadows adopts during his partials, i decided to keep my head back throughout the entirety of the movement to try to minimize the recruitment of my traps.

(i also leaned forward). I performed each rep with a very slow tempo and a solid contraction at the top. all i can say is WOW! INTENSE pump/burn/contraction/isolation etc in my lateral delt (basically exclusively)! I do not consider my shoulders to be a strong point (though i always get asked what i do for them…), and i attribute their second-rate growth to the difficulty that i have always had in obtaining a solid contraction, and performing a controlled negative on lateral variations. Cables never worked because my traps took over.(lateral partials have helped substantially though, but you can never have big enough shoulders)

this method provided me with both of those things, and the ability to perform partial reps, and isometric holds (which i also used). I attribute the incredible degree of isolation entirely to the stance that i adopted (head back, arm placement, and leaning forward)

needless to say, my shoulders are experiencing severe DOMS, and i anticipate a similar “stinging sensation” tommorrow morning. Even though, as i said before, DOMS generally means nothing in terms of hypertrophy, i finally found a way to get a solid contraction on my lateral delts, and perform a slow, controlled negative…

round shoulders, here i come!

[quote]Fuzzyapple.Train wrote:
Great post!

What I could add is that there are better fat souurrces out there than coconut oils. Coconut are medium chain saturated fatty acids. I can understand the use of medium chain FA for bodybuilding purposes. These are absorbed in the blood stream a lot easier than long chain fatty acids but it is still a saturated fat. It is better than animal saturated fats.

EDIT: Mr. W that comment wasn’t directed to you really but just a little tidbit as it looks like you know you know your stuff quite well.[/quote]

im not sure what you are saying, are you saying that saturated fats are bad for you? what fats would you prefer in their stead?

[quote]Myosin wrote:
Again, great posts. Since you are a Meadows fan can I get your take on eating super duper organic heathly along with using synthetic hormones. I realize JM has digestive issues and anything you can do to prevent or reduce possible sides is great, but the two seems counterintuitive. What is your take?[/quote]

I can definitely see how the two appear counterintuitive. However, there is synergy.

I cannot speak for John, but i will say, that giving the body exactly what it needs nutrionally in order to function optimally will assist the performance enhancing drugs in their actions within the bodies of those who use them. You can take all the steroids/GH/slin in the world, but if your nutrition is subpar, your results will be subpar.

This is what many people fail to take into consideration. I have witnessed friends take hefty doses of AAS, and implement a VERY subpar diet, and they gained very little in terms of lean mass despite their use of synthetic hormones. To be blunt and crude, you can’t simply stick a needle in your ass and expect results.

Also, eating very nutritious and easily-digestable food (while simultaneously avoiding unhealthy food), goes a LONG way in mitigating the side effects that come with PED usage.

I hope i answered your question… i may not have understood what u were actually asking lol.

If I get caught without a meal on the road, some BCAAs or a Finibar will do. Frankly, IF has retrained my brain. I now know that I don’t need to eat every 3 hours to mass. Eating a QUALITY protein meal with lots of plants before I go out is important too.

And my stomach cant tell the difference now anyway either. For the first time in my life, I’m not “hungry” every three hours.

[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:
Also, I’m so glad that the “You do NOT need to get fat” message is FINALLY sinking in. I was preaching about that 4-5 years ago and nearly got ran out of town because I was “limiting people progress” by encouraging a smaller food intake. Preach on brother.[/quote]

The dichotomy seems clear between those who have really leaned down and those who’ve never done it.

Not that one can’t learn from both sides of this particular “fence,” but this exact difference does seem conspicuous.

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]Myosin wrote:
Again, great posts. Since you are a Meadows fan can I get your take on eating super duper organic heathly along with using synthetic hormones. I realize JM has digestive issues and anything you can do to prevent or reduce possible sides is great, but the two seems counterintuitive. What is your take?[/quote]

I can definitely see how the two appear counterintuitive. However, there is synergy.

I cannot speak for John, but i will say, that giving the body exactly what it needs nutrionally in order to function optimally will assist the performance enhancing drugs in their actions within the bodies of those who use them. You can take all the steroids/GH/slin in the world, but if your nutrition is subpar, your results will be subpar.

This is what many people fail to take into consideration. I have witnessed friends take hefty doses of AAS, and implement a VERY subpar diet, and they gained very little in terms of lean mass despite their use of synthetic hormones. To be blunt and crude, you can’t simply stick a needle in your ass and expect results.

Also, eating very nutritious and easily-digestable food (while simultaneously avoiding unhealthy food), goes a LONG way in mitigating the side effects that come with PED usage.

I hope i answered your question… i may not have understood what u were actually asking lol.

[/quote]

Thanks for your response. I am always interested in the motivation behind people’s decisions and how they come to their choices.

Stereotypically, believers in organics use better health as their motivation and justification behind paying extra for organic/grassfed etc. Add drugs to the diet and things seem to get murky using this justification. I am certainly not here to debate organics vs normal food or enhanced vs natural, its just I have not gotten to that point (organics or drugs) where I personally could justify either (maybe one day).

I realize there is almost always another level of training, eating, supplementation and whatnot, but would you say a user eating organics is not only going to have fewer sides, but also better growth/progress and if so, would this progress also translate to a natty organic eater?

Thanks for your opinion.

Solid thread

[quote]Myosin wrote:
Again, great posts. Since you are a Meadows fan can I get your take on eating super duper organic heathly along with using synthetic hormones. I realize JM has digestive issues and anything you can do to prevent or reduce possible sides is great, but the two seems counterintuitive. What is your take?[/quote]

I dont see it that way at all… Why would you not eat healthy just because you are using chemical assistance. In order to reach the level of development John wants you simply HAVE to use drugs, and you HAVE to have your diet absolutely on point. John is just implementing them both at the highest level he knows how to. As a side note… If you are going to go the chemically assisted route, it benefits you to eat as healthy as possible anyway to minimize any damage they could cause (if thats a real concern at the levels being used)

Why would John implement what he believes to be a subpar diet just because he is using drugs? Knowing what he believes he knows about fats/organics and such, and provided that money is not an issue, it would be stupid for him not to eat that way it seems to me.

Its not worth the cost for me at my current income level/living expenses… But if I had the money I would certainly “gamble” that organic/grass fed beef was the way the go and buy that exclusively.

[quote]Myosin wrote:

but would you say a user eating organics is not only going to have fewer sides, but also better growth/progress and if so, would this progress also translate to a natty organic eater?

Thanks for your opinion.[/quote]

this is exactly what im saying, yes…

and of course it would absolutely translate to a natural organic eater.

Organic food > processed, farm-raised (seafood), hormone/pesticide-infested, food

[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:

[quote]Myosin wrote:
Again, great posts. Since you are a Meadows fan can I get your take on eating super duper organic heathly along with using synthetic hormones. I realize JM has digestive issues and anything you can do to prevent or reduce possible sides is great, but the two seems counterintuitive. What is your take?[/quote]

I dont see it that way at all… Why would you not eat healthy just because you are using chemical assistance. In order to reach the level of development John wants you simply HAVE to use drugs, and you HAVE to have your diet absolutely on point. John is just implementing them both at the highest level he knows how to. As a side note… If you are going to go the chemically assisted route, it benefits you to eat as healthy as possible anyway to minimize any damage they could cause (if thats a real concern at the levels being used)

Why would John implement what he believes to be a subpar diet just because he is using drugs? Knowing what he believes he knows about fats/organics and such, it would be stupid for him not to eat that way.[/quote]

Point made. I am really curious about the organic/green/grassfed side of the equation. While JM has had success with it, I am not sure too many top IFBB Pros go that route as well. Organics usually are foods without added chemicals, then one turns around and “adds chemicals”. I think its pretty easy to see some sort of strange dichotomy.

I suppose one could ask is a traditional bodybuilding diet truly sub par for the bodybuilder’s needs? But please let us leave that for another thread, I am just interested on the thought process.

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]Myosin wrote:

but would you say a user eating organics is not only going to have fewer sides, but also better growth/progress and if so, would this progress also translate to a natty organic eater?

Thanks for your opinion.[/quote]

this is exactly what im saying, yes…

and of course it would absolutely translate to a natural organic eater.

Organic food > processed, farm-raised (seafood), hormone/pesticide-infested, food[/quote]

Cool beans…thanks for your time.

[quote]Myosin wrote:

Point made. I am really curious about the organic/green/grassfed side of the equation. While JM has had success with it, I am not sure too many top IFBB Pros go that route as well. Organics usually are foods without added chemicals, then one turns around and “adds chemicals”. I think its pretty easy to see some sort of strange dichotomy.

I suppose one could ask is a traditional bodybuilding diet truly sub par for the bodybuilder’s needs? But please let us leave that for another thread, I am just interested on the thought process.[/quote]

MODOK made the point that “many young and up-and-coming bodybuilders do not place nearly enough focus on eating high-quality foods (I.E. organic)”. They only see protein for protein, fat for fat, carbs for carbs… and end up eating garbage in order to meet their macros, simply pumping more drugs to compensate.

this is a practice that will inevitably bite them in the ass, and cut their careers, if not their lives tragically short.

[quote]Myosin wrote:

Point made. I am really curious about the organic/green/grassfed side of the equation. While JM has had success with it, I am not sure too many top IFBB Pros go that route as well. Organics usually are foods without added chemicals, then one turns around and “adds chemicals”. I think its pretty easy to see some sort of strange dichotomy.

I suppose one could ask is a traditional bodybuilding diet truly sub par for the bodybuilder’s needs? But please let us leave that for another thread, I am just interested on the thought process.[/quote]

In terms of overall size and conditioning, there is going to be very little difference, If any at all. Its not like Phil Heath is losing contests because he eats Foster Farms chicken instead of Amy’s Organic Free Range. Its mainly just a health thing.

As for the “Organic but Assisted” idea… Not all chemicals are equal. Salt and arsenic are both “natural and organic” but I only want one of them on my steak. While the dose is ultimately what determines the danger of a chemical, its probably wise to avoid as much pesticide, antibiotic, and other additives as possible. To say nothing of the Omega 6:Omega 3 ratio of grass fed beef.

Suffice to say that there are many benefits to eating “organic”, the least of which is body building related. Although it should be noted that this is not without controversy, as there have been many studies that have documented NO change in the “healthiness” of organic products over non-organic, and its largely just a labeling tactic in the US.

Having said all that… There is a hint of irony in the situation that doesn’t escape me, but its well justified.