I live in the UK. “I’m not sure I believe…” is how the British say “those studies are steaming piles of maggot-infested horseshit fabricated by syphilis-raddled corrupt cretins who are the Donald Trumps of the social sciences”.
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Anna artwork
I have no idea how to define masculinity. I just don’t. It’s nuanced, it’s contradictory, I don’t think it’s the same for everyone, and I firmly believe two men can be masculine in entirely different way.
What I can say, is I know many men who I truly respect as men. Men I have served with who fit every classic stereotype. Tall, strong, drive trucks, hunt, fight, drink bourbon straight, you name it. I can also think of men who I truly respect as men who sip wine at night while watching tv with their wife and little toy dog, who read poetry and delve into debates about Chaucer or Shakespeare. I know men I respect as men who are gay, who are fat, who are short, who are just about any stereotype you could think AGAINST what we would normally associate with traditional masculinity.
These men are all very different, and in my mind, all extremely valuable to me, to their families, and to society at large. I think the biggest factor amongst all of them, is that they don’t waste time trying to be what someone says they should be.
I’m reminded of Marcus Aurelius saying “ Waste no more time arguing what a good man should be. Be one " I think that is valuable beyond what many give it credit for. Do your job, whatever it may be. Play your part well, live a life where you can be proud of your pursuits and efforts, based upon whatever it is that YOU find to be worthy of value. A good man, in my mind at least, is a man who lives his life in accordance with his values. For me, I suppose that is to provide, to protect, and to procreate (a common theme when discussing males roles evolutionarily). Id suggest you find whatever values speak to you, and then follow them.
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What a great post.
These, exactly. Again, great post. Thank you for taking the time to write it.
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Appreciate the kind words, glad someone got something out of it
How many guys out there have traveled alone with their kids?
I have a 4YO and a 2MO. My wife and I have traveled and camped extensively with our 4YO daughter and both of us have flown individually with her multiple times. I took a flight with my 2MO son to meet family and friends this weekend by myself as my wife had to work and my daughter had school. I was met with incredulity by family, friends, and even people on the plane. Granted, I’m able to do it because my wife isn’t breastfeeding and I have flexibility with work, so I’m not launching an offensive on dads who don’t travel alone with their kids. That said, the sentiment communicated to me was definitely that it’s weird that I’m fulfilling the role of a woman by taking care of an infant. The guys who had something to say about it admitted that they either don’t feel capable of doing it or would never voluntarily choose to do it, even given the opportunity. MTF, but curious to know if I’m alone in this regard.
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I did almost everything with my kiddo from the very get go. Partly because I’ve had tons of practice with a slew of nieces and nephews, and partly because my wife was literally struck down in her tracks at the realization that motherhood is not a reflex.
No one ever really had anything to say about that, expressed or implied.
I’d have to question their sense of duty to the responsibility of having a child if anybody tried floating that one by me.
I think a lot of that “woman’s work” type stuff is just poorly developed guys doing a weak immitation of what they think a man should be. Instead of doing what needs done they duck and cover behind stuff like that.
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Took the words out of my mouth so I won’t try to restate what you’ve already said. It’s a weird thing how guys make up rules about what falls out of bounds regarding their capabilities and responsibilities.
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They need to protect their egos at all cost. The cost is usually their marriage, custody of their kids, etc.
They aren’t trying to do anything right, they’re just trying to feel better about themselves.
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Haven’t yet, and probably won’t just because I don’t need to. Wife has more work flexibility than me and constant FOMO so no real reason to go it alone.
I’m working full time right now while she is on maternity leave with our 7wk old son. When I get home, I’m fully responsible for all baby care (minus breastfeeding) to give her a break. Caring for my kid and interacting are very instinctual and gut-feel for me so it’s honestly pretty easy. She struggles a bit more having more anxiety and getting lost down Google rabbit holes of baby care problems, while I’m just focused on keeping him happy, and alive haha. KISS mentality.
Idk, I voluntarily signed up for this. The whole thing. I’m not gonna pick and choose the parts I’m only willing to do haha. I’m willing to do all of it, and never had any illusions about doing everything. If anything, it’s honestly been easier than expected as I was prepared for the horror stories I heard.
So no, what your doing is not weird. It’s good dad’ing IMO. When other men say they “don’t/won’t do that” part of baby care, I honestly lose a little respect for them as people.
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To me masculinity means strength. Strength physically, strength mentally, strength emotionally.
Be strong and fit. Self-explanatory IMO.
Be strong mentally. Be comfortable being uncomfortable. Being tough is mental not physical. Be willing to sacrifice. Be willing to suffer so others may be better off. Be strong enough to weather criticism and temptation in pursuit of what you know is right.
Be strong emotionally. Don’t let emotions rule you. Feel emotions and consciously process them and leverage them to your own benefit.
That said, there are a number of what I consider feminine traits which I try to embody also: pursuit of physical attractiveness, empathy, compromise, seeking help when needed.
Can’t be all yang, gotta have balancing yin as well.
Agree 100%
If you aren’t prepared to change a few nappies, it sets a really low bar for what you are prepared to do. How can you be relied on to do the right things when things get difficult?
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Because my wife wasn’t able to have children and daughter was 6 when we met - I have never changed even 1 diaper in my life. But I wish I had the experience, since my parents are getting close to 90. If I am begrudgingly yet still willing to do this if necessary, does that up my masculinity quotient any?
Doing a dirty job, cause it needs to get done.
Actually my post was in jest, but might come to pass and ^^^.
Agreed with your (and @SkyzykS ) sentiment, that many tasks are easily performed by either sex. People would voice surprise that I could cook or clean the toilet. I would say - since I got married at 33, what was I supposed to do, live at home or be a caveman? lol.
Congrats on the baby.
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Here is my definition of masculinity, hot off the presses. I come home from work Thursday evening and pour a glass of wine. We’re chit-chatting before making dinner.
Husband 
“Guess what! I killed two mice in a single trap!”
Me 
Husband: “This is the first time that’s ever happened!”
Me:
Fast forward to Saturday. We are camping with friends, majority men. Sitting around the campfire eating breakfast burritos.
Husband:
“Oh! Guess what! I killed two mice in a single trap!”
Friends:
Cue animated conversation about mice and death (6 dead in a bucket!).
Four women:
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We’re also good at hitting stuff with other stuff. Rocks, sticks, hammers, birds, mice, deer, etc.
Ex. John Bonham + Thor + Hulk punching giant wolf, even Loki gets in on the action by throwing things and hitting stuff with other stuff.
That clip there is basically an 8ball of man-crack.
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Ahh, the good ol’ bragging about what we have killed and with what discussion.
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Hahahaha, coincidentally, the pumpkin above is mine from this year (modeled on my husband’s face, obviously). When I got home Thursday it was gone. To our land, where yesterday it was shot to death by some number of the mice-killing, camping men. This November camping is for target and skeet shooting and mischief. I came home yesterday before the shooting started.
I go up on Fridays now and come home Saturday, as they become smellier and more and more primitive and as I hit my limit of low-20 degree nights outside. It lets my husband say/do whatever horrifying things without me, and my time to luxuriate in my warm, clean, comfy bed and other feminine joys.
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