I strongly believe that there is always an explanation, and within this archetype, it’s always the same one.
It might not be obvious, but it’s always there.
I don’t like to just toss absolutes like that around all willy-nilly, but if a woman sees a guy acting like a complete derelict and thinks he’s a good idea,you can virtually guarantee she has been invalidated and abused to the point of subjugation from early on.
Normal people who were raised in a loving and nurturing household aren’t attracted to that.
For some yes, for others no. Perhaps there are less now, in this increasingly atomized, materialistic, and hedonistic atmosphere, but I know of, and can remember, plenty of young people who were not confused about how or where to find a woman, their life goals, and what to study and work in.
I know why I was confused and I’ve divulged with that on this forum before.
Oh there are parents and mentors who give more than a little nudge in many cases with great results.
Anyway, I do not intend to derail this thread. I didn’t start it and it’s not about me.
If the guy wants more of my input, I’ll go ahead. I had a strong hunch that attracting women would be brought up and it was.
I would agree with this if it is a pattern. But if a one off, it could just be a poor choice in looking for something different than the usual. The thrill of the bad boy.
On topic, I agree the most with studhammer’s post.
Are you referring to designing a very rigid, fixed path for an adolescent/child wherein they have no choice in the matter? I’ve seen this approach implode many, many times.
I think the kid/adolescent has to WANT to be pushed in a certain direction in order for it to work.
A teenager passionate about engineering isn’t going to be on board with dropping everything and becoming an architect, and if his parents force him into it; resentment may develop.
I’ll also bounce now. Perhaps I’ve misinterpreted your post. When I was referring to a “nudge” I was referencing career choice, dating, political affiliation etc.
There are men in this world who were given family businesses, huge sums of money handed down, and matched with a woman by their community or family members at young ages and had more than three children from the resultant marriages. I highly doubt these people were ever confused about much, if at all.
There are also less wealthy and connected parents who invest heavily in others ways or in the best way they can.
That’s more than a nudge. And more power to them.
I am not suggesting people push children in directions they are unsuitable for.
I think masculinity is purely physical. Any other qualities are equally desirable/undesirable regardless of gender.
I like intelligence, sensitivity, confidence in everyone, I don’t like aggression, rudeness, vanity in anyone. I can’t think of any character or personality traits that are good in one gender but not in the other.
Being kind or sad or compassionate does not make me feel less like a man. Being aggressive does not make me feel more of a man.
Masculinity to me is physical strength and characteristics. Muscles make me feel like a man, shaving makes me feel like a man, peeing standing up makes me feel like a man.
I’m definitely guilty of false dichotomy on this one, but passivity just drives me so crazy that I really appreciate aggressiveness. I like action far more than inaction.
Nothing wrong with assertive; aggressive for me is when you cross the line. (We may be saying the same thing here, but have different definitions of what is assertive and what is aggressive.)
For me assertive is when you’re confident and believe in what you’re saying and doing, so you act decisively. Aggressive is when you can’t make your case so you try to bully people into doing what you want.
Of course people value and dislike different traits. And there are traits that people consider unlikable that are typical of either sex.
For example, there are traits typical of women that many men don’t like. Hence why you might hear some men (and women) say a man is “acting like a woman” or “quit being a b___h”. Likewise there are typically male traits that women aren’t typically fond of either.
However, there are studies showing that when a woman displays high levels of “masculine qualities” like
she’s percieved negatively (ie bossy, demanding, cold) whereas a man who displays similar levels of such traits are percieved positively (ie strong leader)
Many of these differences in character traits are biologically based as @BrickHead pointed out
On a side note, it really sucks how women tend to be less rational and stoic. Emotions have a role (it’s pretty much impossible to make decisions without them), but they can also be very messy and inefficient in many cases
I’m not sure I believe those studies - they tend to prove whatever the original hypothesis is. You can find just as many that “prove” the opposite.
In my own staff I don’t see any evidence whatsoever of any gender stereotypes being true. The women are definitely no less rational or stoic than the men, and are as competitive and aggressive.
You could argue this group has self-selected, but that would be as much true for the men as the women.
