[quote]Brother Chris wrote:[quote]Tiribulus wrote:He does hate homosexuals.[/quote]Damn…sounds just like WBC. [/quote]Don’t make me pull out your Friar from Our Lady of Guadalupe again Chris who quite rightly stated in plain language that the notion of God hating, but loving sinners is a modernist invention.
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Don’t make me find the transcript, word for word that I posted on here, which you conceded that he was in fact saying hate the sickness, not the sick. As St. Augustine put it.
God does not hate anything in existence. If he did, it wouldn’t exist. Theological fact.
[quote]sufiandy wrote:<<< “God hates fags, HOWEVER…” makes for a slightly less interesting sign to hold up on street corners.[/quote]Won’t ever be me. My call to them is the same as it was to me. And again, for the same reasons. Acknowledge your sin before God, repent of it, trust Jesus for your justification and live eternally as His brother, bride and son. There is no putrefying perverted pedophile beyond the redemptive power of the cross of Christ. He will make them new creatures in Himself. Whosoever will may come. ( That’s you again Christopher, don’t lemme down now =] )
[quote]twiceborn wrote:
The only true religion in the original meaning of the word is pure entheogenic drug use.
Religion literally means “to bring back into connection with”, and is fundamentally the same term as “Yoga”. That being said, NONE of the modern “isms” is actually practicing “religion” these days.
Fairytale books of the past and absurd, outdated systems of behavior are not religion, they’re cults. [/quote]
Equivocation, false dichotomy, &c. &c.
[quote]All the modern “isms” stem from the original systems of spirituality which we refer to these days as indigenous shamanism. The original goal of every one of these “isms” was to allow small groups of initiates a chance to connect themselves directly to the wheelwork of nature and personally experience the hidden aspects of consciousness only available through drug use, ritualism, tantric dance, etc.
I’d wager that just about no one on this board has ever experienced any true religious practice. Raising this question here is like asking the blind to explain a sunrise.
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Thanks, we all don’t know anything. You know everything. Your argument narrow, our argument wide. You win every time. Thanks for the explanation.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:[quote]Tiribulus wrote:He does hate homosexuals.[/quote]Damn…sounds just like WBC. [/quote]Don’t make me pull out your Friar from Our Lady of Guadalupe again Chris who quite rightly stated in plain language that the notion of God hating, but loving sinners is a modernist invention.
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Don’t make me find the transcript, word for word that I posted on here, which you conceded that he was in fact saying hate the sickness, not the sick. As St. Augustine put it.
God does not hate anything in existence. If he did, it wouldn’t exist. Theological fact.[/quote]I found it, but can’t look now. I may be misremembering, but I thought it as a different point I conceded to you. About not knowing if another person is presently saved or not. Could be wrong. If so then he’s wrong too. There’s plenty God hates. It’s all over the bible. David even promised TO hate those God hates, or stated that he did in a positive way. That was under the earthly old covenant though. I’ll be back.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:[quote]Tiribulus wrote:He does hate homosexuals.[/quote]Damn…sounds just like WBC. [/quote]Don’t make me pull out your Friar from Our Lady of Guadalupe again Chris who quite rightly stated in plain language that the notion of God hating, but loving sinners is a modernist invention.
[/quote]
Don’t make me find the transcript, word for word that I posted on here, which you conceded that he was in fact saying hate the sickness, not the sick. As St. Augustine put it.
God does not hate anything in existence. If he did, it wouldn’t exist. Theological fact.[/quote]I found it, but can’t look now. I may be misremembering, but I thought it as a different point I conceded to you. About not knowing if another person is presently saved or not. Could be wrong. If so then he’s wrong too. There’s plenty God hates. It’s all over the bible. David even promised TO hate those God hates, or stated that he did in a positive way. That was under the earthly old covenant though. I’ll be back.
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Yes, and God destroyed them or it can be argued that it was hyperbole. So you admit St. Augustine is wrong, and everyone including Jesus was wrong in the early Church.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
We have a winner boys and girls. ALL that is not born from explicit faith in the one true God is sin no matter how right it may in itself appear to us. Giving to the poor out of any motivation other than self conscious love for and the glory of the Lord of the universe is sin. All that is not of faith IS sin. This is your cue to turn that passage upside down now too Chris =] I say it’s a sort of moral syllogism with the part I quoted above as the major premise. The exact inverse of what you are going to say.
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I apologize if this has been covered before, and if it has feel free to just direct me to where it is discussed instead of typing out a new answer, but how exactly does one achieve salvation in the eyes of the christian God? Does one just have to accept God and Jesus and say you are sorry for your sins, or do you have to stop sinning altogether or just try to stop and apologize when you fail? If so, how much effort does one have to put in in order for it to be enough? For me, personally, my big sins are Idolatry (I love Hockey and material possessions and higher education being a professor myself), gluttony (I have spent the past few years bulking which means eating a lot more than what I need, and I enjoy delicacies and well seasoned food), and Pride (I am very proud of my many accomplishments in my field and the progress I have made physique wise), and I also support gay rights and am mostly pro-choice. Do I have to give up all of those things in order to get into heaven, or do I just have to be sorry for all of them and continue on with my life? This is a serious post by the way, in case you were thinking otherwise. I am genuinely curious about what Christians believe.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
If God does exist who will he favor the most?[/quote]The body builders.
[quote]What if the true religions hasn’t been invented yet?[/quote]We invent it.
[quote]Do you think an all-powerful god would really be jealous and smite you if you accidentally were born into the wrong one?[/quote]Jealous people are insecure. Why worship some loser who gets all jearous that you don’t pay attention to him. Those most worthy of honour are those who have self-confidence, not attention whores.
[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:<<< I apologize if this has been covered before, and if it has feel free to just direct me to where it is discussed instead of typing out a new answer, but how exactly does one achieve salvation in the eyes of the christian God? Does one just have to accept God and Jesus and say you are sorry for your sins, or do you have to stop sinning altogether or just try to stop and apologize when you fail? If so, how much effort does one have to put in in order for it to be enough? For me, personally, my big sins are Idolatry (I love Hockey and material possessions and higher education being a professor myself), gluttony (I have spent the past few years bulking which means eating a lot more than what I need, and I enjoy delicacies and well seasoned food), and Pride (I am very proud of my many accomplishments in my field and the progress I have made physique wise), and I also support gay rights and am mostly pro-choice. Do I have to give up all of those things in order to get into heaven, or do I just have to be sorry for all of them and continue on with my life? This is a serious post by the way, in case you were thinking otherwise. I am genuinely curious about what Christians believe.[/quote] I just had to stop back in to get something and check my mail. Didn’t I? This is a set of the greatest questions ever asked right here and while I don’t necessarily expect you to fall to your knees upon hearing the answers, you will get my narrow dogmatic and very correct ones. I HAVE to go now though. If you guys only knew what my offline life was like at the moment. Once again please browse this: 301 redirect for what will essentially be my answers. This is NOT scripture and is NOT divinely binding, but is in my view the most scripturally accurate yet concise statement of the meat of the true Christian faith EVER assembled in one place. Believe it or not my homeboy Shai Linne, the rappin theologian, get’s it absolutely right every time I’m aware of. I have yet to hear a single syllable fall from this man’s lips that I do not totally agree with. Most pastors are not half as good as this guy. I’m being dead serious. Unbelievably rock solid old school Westminster Calvinism served straight up. One of the kids at my church introduced me to him. My neck still hurts from nodding up and down and shoutin GLORY!!! LOL!! Shai Linne - Triune Praise - YouTube
[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:<<< I apologize if this has been covered before, and if it has feel free to just direct me to where it is discussed instead of typing out a new answer, but how exactly does one achieve salvation in the eyes of the christian God? >>>[/quote]Salvation has already been achieved. Conceived in eternity by the Father, accomplished in time by the Son and applied throughout history by the Spirit. To become a partaker of it one must believe with their heart and confess with their mouth that they are guilty as charged and the merits of the blood and resurrection of Jesus Christ of Nazareth alone are acceptable as payment for that guilt before the offended holy God. It is NOT about making you happy. It is about about making you live.[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:<<< Does one just have to accept God and Jesus and say you are sorry for your sins, >>>[/quote]Essentially yes (with some clarification, some of which is above). However, if that is done from a heart being enlivened by the risen Christ it WILL in every single instance bring about a transformation in the sensibilities and appetites that will be entirely unmistakeable to those who’ve known you. If not? Then you are still in your sins.[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:<<< or do you have to stop sinning altogether >>>[/quote]Nobody will ever stop sinning altogether in this life.[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:<<< or just try to stop and apologize when you fail? >>>[/quote]Essentially yes again. Except a truly born again man will know that he cannot overcome sin on his own. He will seek God for power and develop a hatred for that which displeases his Lord. Little brother Forbes said it quite well. https://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/world_news_war/defining_a_true_christian?id=4268652&pageNo=0 [u][b](12-29-2010, 02:11 PM)I would say, though this may not be the case for everyone, is that you know you’re born again when you struggle with sin. By that I mean, you become aware of what your sins are, and though they may bring pleasure to the flesh, a battle rages in you to overcome it. This struggle though is constant however and will always be there. Hence the term, fighting the good fight.
I struggle(d) with pornography. No doubt it brings pleasure to the flesh, but the spirit within me knows its wrong. When I wasn’t born again, I said “well I’m a guy with needs and its natural”. How wrong I was. Eventually I began to feel bad for watching it. Something inside me said to stop.[/b][/u] That is precious in the sight of his Father God. A conscience tender to the Holy Spirit within.[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:<<< If so, how much effort does one have to put in in order for it to be enough? >>>[/quote]Your efforts contribute zero to your state of being accepted in Christ. ZEEROH. That said? No effort, no Christ. If nobody can tell you’re a Christian? You’re not. If you look, act, talk and think like the world then you have yet to taste of the transforming power of the gospel of God.[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:<<< For me, personally, my big sins are Idolatry (I love Hockey and material possessions and higher education being a professor myself), gluttony (I have spent the past few years bulking which means eating a lot more than what I need, and I enjoy delicacies and well seasoned food), and Pride (I am very proud of my many accomplishments in my field and the progress I have made physique wise), and I also support gay rights and am mostly pro-choice. Do I have to give up all of those things in order to get into heaven, or do I just have to be sorry for all of them and continue on with my life? >>>[/quote]I say again. Being a true Christian, a born again believer, an eternally elect member of the invisible body of Christ, His church, IS NOT the acquiescence to a set of moral and intellectual principles among competing options. It is the supernatural resurrection from true death in sin to true life in Him. A new creature. Old things pass away and all things become new.(progressively) You DO NOT indeed CANNOT clean yourself and or your mind up to be saved. Here’s a real big “HOWEVER”. IF He has made you His own and taken up residence in your heart. He WILL do it for you. Those things WILL fall by the wayside as you grow in your love for and devotion to Him. I promise. Once again. If that ain’t happnin? You ain’t His.[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:<<< This is a serious post by the way, in case you were thinking otherwise. I am genuinely curious about what Christians believe.[/quote]I believe that or I would not have wasted my time with this response. I could write a book that thick, (holds up finger and thumb a couple inches apart) detailing in excruciating biblical detail everything I just said. It was the by far vast majority view at the time of the founding of this nation. I can prove that too. Like it or not that’s where we came from as a country and it’s abandonment is why we are dying.
[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:
I apologize if this has been covered before, and if it has feel free to just direct me to where it is discussed instead of typing out a new answer, but how exactly does one achieve salvation in the eyes of the christian God? Does one just have to accept God and Jesus and say you are sorry for your sins, or do you have to stop sinning altogether or just try to stop and apologize when you fail? If so, how much effort does one have to put in in order for it to be enough? For me, personally, my big sins are Idolatry (I love Hockey and material possessions and higher education being a professor myself), gluttony (I have spent the past few years bulking which means eating a lot more than what I need, and I enjoy delicacies and well seasoned food), and Pride (I am very proud of my many accomplishments in my field and the progress I have made physique wise), and I also support gay rights and am mostly pro-choice. Do I have to give up all of those things in order to get into heaven, or do I just have to be sorry for all of them and continue on with my life? This is a serious post by the way, in case you were thinking otherwise. I am genuinely curious about what Christians believe.
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To make it simple, the one liner that is required of Christians to fulfill:
Love thy God, love thy neighbor.
However, that can be put into more practical steps:
First step, Baptism, then other sacraments (frequent the Eucharist as much as possible).
Second step, do good, avoid evil.
Third step, go to confession when you mess up on second step.
St. T. Aquinas was asked how one becomes a saint, as Nike’s motto goes: Just do it. The difference between those who win the battle and those who lose are the ones who get back up and try again.
Quick on the draw there dearest Christopher. LOL! We are about to see folks why Catholics (big C) and historic non Catholics can never EVER be one big happy neo-ecumenical family.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Quick on the draw there dearest Christopher. LOL! We are about to see folks why Catholics (big C) and historic non Catholics can never EVER be one big happy neo-ecumenical family. [/quote]
Because one of us is right and the other 40 thousand of us are wrong?
[quote]TigerTime wrote:
pat wrote:
By definition an Uncaused-cause cannot be caused, or it’s not an Uncaused-cause. There’s nothing more to it than that. A deductive argument functions much like a math equation, what’s on the other side of the equal sign, or the “therefore” works in the inverse to the equation or premises. \
k
Well a dimension is just a function of what occupies it. For instance, space is defined by the objects that occupy it. No matter, no space. So it’s dependedent.
Then I suppose vacuums don’t exist…
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Why? Vacuums are something’s, not nothing’s.
Your trying to put God as the spark of each potential universe. That’s not the case. There is a reason for each universe that exists, there’s a reason they for their infinite presence. You just put another cog in the causal chain. There cannot be more than one uncaus-cause in all of existence. Infinite or not.
And you basing it on a theory that is going bye-bye.
Actually, not being temporally dependent makes it tautologically not dependant on the constraints of time. If you have a dimension above the constraints of time, then you can have an infinite regression of first causes (so to speak) in the same way you can have an infinite amount of 2 dimensional branes in a 3 dimensional universe.
(This is what I was talking about before, it’s just that this is more of an infinite amount of first causes, rather than an infinite regression of first causes.)
Your scope is to small. I am talking about existence in general, it doesn’t matter what it is that exists.
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There is nothing magical about it. It’s the Uncaused-cause. There can only be one.
Then you acknowledge that God created homosexuals or don’t? Again please show me in the bible God’s hate. Stating that we cannot understand God’s love and justice is a cop out. All we have is our perspective.
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I don’t know much of anything about Christianity, but I have been reading about it a bit, and I personally would be more worried about other sins way before I worried about stuff like homosexuality. I came across this article on Idolatry and if it is correct, I can’t think of a single person I know who doesn’t commit this sin multiple times on a daily basis.
There is a lot of bad info out there. People try to make idolatry a lot of things it’s not to justify their own beliefs or for the purpose inflate themselves or tear down somebody else.
It basically means you are attributing God or God like qualities that to something other than God. That’s really all it is.
I don’t feel like I need to give you a reading list, just please be careful of what your reading. There is a lot of misrepresentation of what it is and what it isn’t.
I am going go out on a limb and say the internet is a bad place.
Actually, I would say the ‘Christianity for dummies’ isn’t a bad source for general understanding.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
We have a winner boys and girls. ALL that is not born from explicit faith in the one true God is sin no matter how right it may in itself appear to us. Giving to the poor out of any motivation other than self conscious love for and the glory of the Lord of the universe is sin. All that is not of faith IS sin. This is your cue to turn that passage upside down now too Chris =] I say it’s a sort of moral syllogism with the part I quoted above as the major premise. The exact inverse of what you are going to say.
[/quote]
I apologize if this has been covered before, and if it has feel free to just direct me to where it is discussed instead of typing out a new answer, but how exactly does one achieve salvation in the eyes of the christian God?
[/quote]
Love God, love your neighbor. It’s all based off these two things.
Oh shit… You’ve been corrupted by the weird, that’s not idolatry, at all.
That’s not gluttony.
Abortion is murder, that is something you cannot support. Until you can prove it’s not a human life you are killing then it’s supporting the death of innocent human beings. That’s not something tolerated on any level.
Most of what you listed isn’t a sin. A sin is a willfully immoral act. Abortion qualifies as it’s the killing of another human being which is a rather immoral thing to do.
You have gotten a strange deluded and unreasonable view of what it is, and that’s what I was afraid of.
You got crazies in every crowd and sadly we do to, but it’s really not complicated. If it sounds absurd it usually is. It seems you got a 17th century puritanical impression of it. Which sucks cause it’s not that at all in anyway.
Are you really interested or are you looking for reasons to not be Christian. If I thought about it like you do, I wouldn’t be Christian either.
Thank you for your response Trib, I now understand the Christian mind a little bit better. You are right, I am not going to fall to my knees and proclaim my faith in God, that is not why I asked. I have made my views on religion well known, and it will take a lot to change that. I was just looking for a little insight into what Christianity is all about.
[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:<<< it will take a lot to change that. >>>[/quote]It will take nothing less than the resurrecting power of the same God who in the beginning created the heavens and the earth from nothing. You’re welcome.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Quick on the draw there dearest Christopher. LOL! We are about to see folks why Catholics (big C) and historic non Catholics can never EVER be one big happy neo-ecumenical family. [/quote]
Because one of us is right and the other 40 thousand of us are wrong?[/quote]That would be about the average throughout history. The vaaast majority have always been wrong and the Lord always has his remnant that have not bowed the knee to Baal.