EPISTEMOLOGY: The Key to Everything

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
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EPISTEMOLOGY
I shoulda done this a long time ago when little brother Joab suggested it in a PM. I do hijack a lotta threads and for that I am sorry. Probably not sorry enough to stop doin it though. This thread may help.

Thunderbolt my man. I’m really hopin for some action from you in this one. Push(here’s your chance), Aragorn (your’s too), Eph, MUFASA? Dr. Skeptix, Jewbacca etc. POOOOOOKEEE, where are you? (there’s a frightening Canuck intellect right there). Oleena’s had enough I think. Didn’t intentionally omit anybody. Come one come all. This is Elder Forlife’s thang. I hope he drops in to further demonstrate how absolutely wrong he is about all those things he’s so absolutely right about. Somebody please start. I gotta work legs. Actually there’ll probably still be no posts when I get back. Well maybe.

The Problem With the Problem of Evil
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The topic of conversation is?

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EPISTEMOLOGY
I’m gonna try n get a post in here tonight, but I have work. I must have literally 500 posts already on this topic of all intellectual topics. I’m sure I’ll end up pasting some in here for like the 10th time, much to the rolling eyes of those who always wind up running away. Not Elder Forlife though. (man I miss that guy) Everybody lives in and with one of two epistemological systems every second of their existence, but simply have never heard the term or consciously considered the implications. Stick around. You will see that. I promise. My new avatar is to kick off this thread which may or may not go anywhere, but I have a feeling it will eventually.

Dr. Cornelius Van Til. You’ve heard me mention him. He’s yer homey. A Dutchman and one of my absolute all time heroes of the faith. Right Behind the apostle Paul, Augustine of Hippo, John Calvin and maybe the Westminster Assembly (which is a group). He taught me what 2nd Corinthians 10:5 means “We are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ”. In other words he taught me how to think like a Christian. (There’s a perfect opportunity for a joke for ya Eph).

He stood immovable in the Spirit for the 43 years he taught philosophy and apologetics as the very liberal rot we see paraded all over these forums by people with the name of Jesus on their lips invaded his beloved seminary. He went to glory having fought the good fight til his last breath. I praise God for His 92 years on this earth. He was used mightily in my life and this thread will be my brotherly tribute to his exceedingly surrendered and biblical mind and method. A method I will humbly assert that I have mastered to the glory of my Lord. My brother would be proud of me.

Tell me about certainty Ephrem.

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[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

Tell me about certainty Ephrem.[/quote]

I’m certain that when I’m prevented from breathing I will die.

Everything else, more or less, I deal with in levels of uncertainty.

A high level of uncertainty regarding an idea of belief makes that idea or belief less attractive to entertain.

Whenever an uncertain idea of belief is supported by evidence the idea or belief becomes less uncertain, the idea or belief becomes easier to entertain.

One percent of uncertainty does not invalidate an idea or belief, so eventhough I might not KNOW Sloth does not have a pink unicorn in his backyard, I’m still certain enough to state with confidence that Sloth does not have a pink unicorn in his backyard.

And that’s what I have to say about certainty.

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I’m going to wind up asking and saying things in this thread that will seem at first like pure meaningless intellectual exercise. Nay. “the key to everything”.

What IS certainty and uncertainty, and probability for that matter, is what I’m asking. Your statement above is the result of epistemology, which everybody has, but not epistemology itself.

The overwhelmingly vast majority of even highly educated, eye poppingly intelligent and serious people, most true Christians included, have never thought in these terms on purpose. Despite the fact hat the topic of this thread governs literally EVERY thought they do, will or ever can have. I sure didn’t. Van Til opened the scriptures and with a clarity of perception rarely seen twice in an entire age, simply pointed out to me what had been sitting there all along.

The first time I read “The Defense of the Faith” I put it down in my lap and I was like a hungry man smelling the most sumptuous feast on the other side of a wall with no door. Smacking around on the wall trying to find a way in. My head literally hurt. I could smell that feast, but I just couldn’t see it. I picked it up and started reading it again. The second time through that wall, which turned out to be my own independent intellectual autonomy, dematerialized forever. My eyes closed and my head dropped into my hands. “OF COURSE. How could it possibly be otherwise?”

The object of this thread is simple, ridiculously so, but utterly FOREIGN to our natural way of thinking as children of our sinful father Adam. Every last human being who will ever be born uses the same intellectual tools, saints and sinners alike. What we can and will never agree on is why. Though I will say that even many Christians, truly born again members of the invisible body of Christ are still living with that wall. Unbelievers are unaware the wall even exists even though Romans 1 says they see it unavoidably in literally every particle of reality there is. That is spiritual death.

My goal is to simply declare His truth using whatever gifts He has given me for His kingdom. It’s not to glorify myself through besting others in a cerebral jousting match though that struggle has been one of my greatest throughout my Walk with the Lord.

So again, “What IS certainty and uncertainty, and probability for that matter, is what I’m asking. Your statement above is the result of epistemology, which everybody has, but not epistemology itself.”

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[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
So again, "What IS certainty

[/quote]

Well, I’m not certain about that…

I’d have to say I’m uncertain…

Well I think it’s probably…I see what you mean.

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[quote]SexMachine wrote:<<< I see what you mean.[/quote]Only from the autonomous side of the wall though. Nobody can defend intellectual uncertainty (skepticism) like Elder Forlife even though he practices pragmatic certainty with every breath he takes. Everybody does. Right Groo? I’d welcome you back too young man. I have to get ready for work

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[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

So again, “What IS certainty and uncertainty, and probability for that matter, is what I’m asking. Your statement above is the result of epistemology, which everybody has, but not epistemology itself.”[/quote]

According to pat we cannot know the essence of what something is, and because I’m not going to read an entire book for the answer to this question I’m going to go ahead and ask you T, “what is epistemology?”

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[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Only from the autonomous side of the wall though.
[/quote]

But how can you be certain this wall exists and that I’m on the(presumably) wrong side of it? I have my own wall and I am certain that it exists. I may be uncertain about certainty but I’m not uncertain about my wall.

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What is it possible to know?

How can we be sure?

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I exist, therfore I am.

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Some truth which is “necessarily” tru is that which submits to the doctrine of deductive logic and whose terms are defined to be true.

A = B
B = C
Therefore, A = C

This syllogism is true. How can we be certain? Because the propositions are true by definition and the argument is valid and sound.

On the other hand, there is inductive logic which allows for he possibility of the conclusions to be false because the propositions are not necessarily true: e.g. 90% of swans are white.

All the hard sciences are applications of inductive logic and therefore necessarily uncertain.

Other truths which can be said to be necessarily true are axiomatic and self evident. They require no proof. They are true by definition and serve no purpose but to set up propositions for other arguments.

e.g. A point is a location is space that has neither mass nor breadth.

Whole fields of knowledge are built upon nothing but axioms like these.

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[quote]FISCHER613 wrote:
I exist, therfore I am.[/quote]

I was going to post something witty, but it’s breakfast time.

Cogito ergo nom

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[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

So again, “What IS certainty and uncertainty, and probability for that matter, is what I’m asking. Your statement above is the result of epistemology, which everybody has, but not epistemology itself.”[/quote]

According to pat we cannot know the essence of what something is, and because I’m not going to read an entire book for the answer to this question I’m going to go ahead and ask you T, “what is epistemology?”
[/quote]The unprovable first principle by which we seek to prove all others. Everybody holds one of two as primary. I’m waay late to church. Really busy day today. More later or else tomorrow. The rest of you guys too. I’m not ignoring anybody.

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I know I’ve been away a while and all but…an epistemology thread, started by Tirib, complete with multiple call-outs in the OP, and I don’t even get an “oh yeah what was that one guy’s name, Hernando something or other?”

I’m genuinely hurt.

Well, Tirib, I know you didn’t do that on purpose. I don’t know how I know it, but I just know it.

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[quote]Cortes wrote:
I know I’ve been away a while and all but…an epistemology thread, started by Tirib, complete with multiple call-outs in the OP, and I don’t even get an “oh yeah what was that one guy’s name, Hernando something or other?”

I’m genuinely hurt.

Well, Tirib, I know you didn’t do that on purpose. I don’t know how I know it, but I just know it. [/quote]

Hahahaha :slight_smile:

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[quote]Cortes wrote:
I know I’ve been away a while and all but…an epistemology thread, started by Tirib, complete with multiple call-outs in the OP, and I don’t even get an “oh yeah what was that one guy’s name, Hernando something or other?”

I’m genuinely hurt.

Well, Tirib, I know you didn’t do that on purpose. I don’t know how I know it, but I just know it.[/quote]

You crack me up lol

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[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
EPISTEMOLOGY (off to Google for most)
I shoulda done this a long time ago when little brother Joab suggested it in a PM. I do hijack a lotta threads and for that I am sorry. Probably not sorry enough to stop doin it though. This thread may help.

Thunderbolt my man. I’m really hopin for some action from you in this one. Push(here’s your chance), Aragorn (your’s too), Eph, MUFASA? Dr. Skeptix, Jewbacca etc. POOOOOOKEEE, where are you? (there’s a frightening Canuck intellect right there). Oleena’s had enough I think. Didn’t intentionally omit anybody. Come one come all. This is Elder Forlife’s thang. I hope he drops in to further demonstrate how absolutely wrong he is about all those things he’s so absolutely right about. Somebody please start. I gotta work legs. Actually there’ll probably still be no posts when I get back. Well maybe.[/quote]

I see one free willer on the invitation list. Is there a difference in proselytising to Jews and Catholics tirib?

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This is the most ironic thread of all time.

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[quote]Oleena wrote:
This is the most ironic thread of all time. [/quote]

Dramatic irony?