What is Lean Body Mass?

[baugust]

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]baugust wrote:

X, why not just get your body fat tested by a professional, post your numbers with your weight, and show the “approximate” amount of muscle you’ve gained? Please don’t respond with “I’m not going out of my way to do that for the people that argue with me.” It literally takes 5 minutes by caliper, and you could even go a more scientific route (i.e. DEXA) if you’d prefer. [/quote]

I already did that when I was 250 and measured at 16% body fat several months back.

I have gained weight since then for the first time in a few years going back up to 270lbs.

Any other questions, just ask.

I think I also saw you mention you were planning on leaning down a bit. This would be the appropriate time to determine where you actually stand. You seem to be quite interested in physiology and biology, so I would assume, like me, obtaining appromximate numbers of your mass, body fat, etc. would be more important to you. I understand that at the end of the day you just want to look good (or whatever your goal is with all of this working out, science talk, etc.), but don’t you want to quantify it?

I don’t actually care in quantifying the exact number…until I see someone make a grossly incorrect statement about it.

My goal is to eventually be both bigger and leaner. I am working towards that goal and am doing just fine. That avatar was taken the day before yesterday at a weight of 270lbs. I will diet later this year and only to the point that I am satisfied. The exact number isn’t the goal.[/quote]

Just curious, but how often do you step on a scale? Daily, weekly, monthly?

I understand that the exact number doesn’t matter, but with the amount of advice you give, especially aimed at beginners, it would be helpful if you could say, “Look, this is me at 270 and 20% bodyfat, and this is me at 250 and 16% bodyfat.” You’re right when you state that it is hard to build an appreciable amount of muscle (perhaps significantly harder without substances), so why not be the role model that can show people what “___” amount of muscle actually looks like on a fellow gym rat with average or below average genetics.

Also, I think quantifying it may be better in terms of reaching your goals, simply because it gives you a specific, direct goal. This ties in to my first question, above.

Yes, at the end of the day it comes down to how satisfied you are with how you look, but for the purpose of ensuring you are on the right track, quantification can be helpful. If it’s in terms of gaining weight, you can ensure that you don’t put on fat too quickly; mirrors can be awfully deceiving. If it is with regards to losing weight, you can ensure that you don’t lose any/too much muscle along the way. Again, mirrors are deceiving. I’m sure you know that just following scale weight isn’t a perfect indicator by itself, whether you’re gaining or losing weight.

Just my $0.02. Take it for what it’s worth, because I’m a physicist, so I’m naturally fond of quantification.

[RATTLEHEAD]

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]RATTLEHEAD wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]RATTLEHEAD wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]RATTLEHEAD wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I am guessing the goal is to get me to leave the forum?
[/quote]

God please.[/quote]

No offense, guy…but maybe you should spend more time working on your own body…and less time trying to get me to leave for no reason simply because I ask questions without believing everything I am told because “insert author” said it.[/quote]

So what was it? Am i trying to get you to leave for “no reason” or is it because of the reason you said?

You are so dense you can’t form coherent sentences, or thoughts, or even arguments for that matter.

[/quote]

Nice insults.

Your body speaks for you.[/quote]

That it’s nice like my insults? Cheers :D.
[/quote]

No…that it makes me wonder why someone with that development has so much venom for other trainers when you could possibly learn something yourself from the people you make fun of.[/quote]

Trainers? People?

Pretty sure I just laugh at you, you are the clown of T Nation after all.

[A_rod1]

Could I get the cliff notes as to what is going on in this thread.

I feel like it has something to do about.

a. Max LBM one can gain.

b. How Blacks/African Americans are superior in all things related to athleticism/bodybuilding.

Please let me know. I really would like to participate but do not want to jump in prior to knowing exactly what statement is being discussed.

[browndisaster]

[quote]chillain wrote:

[quote]browndisaster wrote:
possibly useful metrics for bodybuilding:
-scale weight
-performance in gym (weight, volume, rest periods, etc)
-pictures, mirror
-tape measure

definitely useless metrics for bodybuilding:
-the exact amount of lean jerky your body could provide to cannibals
-a skewed version of how good you look in ideal lighting (BD’s Avatar, 2013)
-post count, thread read count, stock images, and passive aggressive comments on a forum
-race[/quote]

move race/genetics to ‘not strictly useful but nonetheless important’ category
move scale weight to ‘progressively less useful’ category

[/quote]
I’ll agree with that

My opinion: focusing on the next couple of steps will always trump having some existential crisis over lifting weights and eating protein

[gregron]

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

I’m leaving other people out of this because I am trying to have a conversation with you. Not them. You.[/quote]

Then you should start your own thread all about me instead of trying to change what this thread is about.

If the purpose of this entire thread is to ask brick how he got his number then why wasnt the first post: “Hey Brick, how did you come up with your muscle gain estimation for me?”[/quote]

Because the info presented is one reason why his previous info posted was clearly false or misinformed.

Dude, I’m trying to have a simple civil open conversation with you like two adults and this is how you respond?

Do you see how this makes you look?

[WhiteFlash]

Intro from Casey Butt’s article on natural limits. Seemed appropriate.

DISCLAIMER: The world of popular bodybuilding has always been and probably always will be full of exaggerations, deceptions and, sometimes, outright lies. Unfortunately, those exaggerations often shape people’s perceptions of bodybuilders’ legitimate measurements. The purpose of the information presented in this article is to provide accurate references and tools so people can form appropriate training expectations based on reality. That said, even many adults don’t have the maturity and intelligence to accept and deal with knowledge of their own limitations. If you’re comfortable with your current perception of your bodybuilding potential (depending on how realistic your training expectations are) and think that any threat to that perception might negatively influence your self-image or motivation to train then do not read this articleDISCLAIMER: The world of popular bodybuilding has always been and probably always will be full of exaggerations, deceptions and, sometimes, outright lies. Unfortunately, those exaggerations often shape people’s perceptions of bodybuilders’ legitimate measurements. The purpose of the information presented in this article is to provide accurate references and tools so people can form appropriate training expectations based on reality. That said, even many adults don’t have the maturity and intelligence to accept and deal with knowledge of their own limitations. If you’re comfortable with your current perception of your bodybuilding potential (depending on how realistic your training expectations are) and think that any threat to that perception might negatively influence your self-image or motivation to train then do not read this article

[ishinator]

[/quote]
Dude, I’m trying to have a simple open conversation with you like two adults and this is how you respond?

Do you are how this makes you look?[/quote]

[mbdix]

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]baugust wrote:

X, why not just get your body fat tested by a professional, post your numbers with your weight, and show the “approximate” amount of muscle you’ve gained? Please don’t respond with “I’m not going out of my way to do that for the people that argue with me.” It literally takes 5 minutes by caliper, and you could even go a more scientific route (i.e. DEXA) if you’d prefer. [/quote]

I already did that when I was 250 and measured at 16% body fat several months back.

I have gained weight since then for the first time in a few years going back up to 270lbs.

Any other questions, just ask.

I think I also saw you mention you were planning on leaning down a bit. This would be the appropriate time to determine where you actually stand. You seem to be quite interested in physiology and biology, so I would assume, like me, obtaining appromximate numbers of your mass, body fat, etc. would be more important to you. I understand that at the end of the day you just want to look good (or whatever your goal is with all of this working out, science talk, etc.), but don’t you want to quantify it?

I don’t actually care in quantifying the exact number…until I see someone make a grossly incorrect statement about it.

My goal is to eventually be both bigger and leaner. I am working towards that goal and am doing just fine. That avatar was taken the day before yesterday at a weight of 270lbs. I will diet later this year and only to the point that I am satisfied. The exact number isn’t the goal.[/quote]

I don’t normally get involved in this but, Would you agree X that you would be around 220#s in contest shape? I know that is not your goal. Just curious. With what you have built muscle wise do you think you would be stage ready around 220#s?

[GrindOverMatter]

[quote]mbdix wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]baugust wrote:

X, why not just get your body fat tested by a professional, post your numbers with your weight, and show the “approximate” amount of muscle you’ve gained? Please don’t respond with “I’m not going out of my way to do that for the people that argue with me.” It literally takes 5 minutes by caliper, and you could even go a more scientific route (i.e. DEXA) if you’d prefer. [/quote]

I already did that when I was 250 and measured at 16% body fat several months back.

I have gained weight since then for the first time in a few years going back up to 270lbs.

Any other questions, just ask.

I think I also saw you mention you were planning on leaning down a bit. This would be the appropriate time to determine where you actually stand. You seem to be quite interested in physiology and biology, so I would assume, like me, obtaining appromximate numbers of your mass, body fat, etc. would be more important to you. I understand that at the end of the day you just want to look good (or whatever your goal is with all of this working out, science talk, etc.), but don’t you want to quantify it?

I don’t actually care in quantifying the exact number…until I see someone make a grossly incorrect statement about it.

My goal is to eventually be both bigger and leaner. I am working towards that goal and am doing just fine. That avatar was taken the day before yesterday at a weight of 270lbs. I will diet later this year and only to the point that I am satisfied. The exact number isn’t the goal.[/quote]

I don’t normally get involved in this but, Would you agree X that you would be around 220#s in contest shape? I know that is not your goal. Just curious. With what you have built muscle wise do you think you would be stage ready around 220#s?[/quote]
Lol no he would not be 220 with any type of respectable conditioning. That I’m sure of

[TRU76]

It’s simple, if it jiggles, it’s fat.

Arnold Schwarzenegger

[jdrannin1]

[quote]TRU76 wrote:
It’s simple, if it jiggles, it’s fat.

Arnold Schwarzenegger

[/quote]

Never doubt Arnold.

[BrickHead]

X, I missed one of your posts above. I have arrived at that ~35 lb gain because of what I suspect a properly fed post-pubertal, 5’10" man would be with no training would weigh if not overweight or underweight and what he arrived at, that being 270 pounds with a bodyfat percentage in the mid 20’s. I’ve also factored in what the best naturals have done and how your physique measures up to them, particularly a comparison in the lower body. So I arrived at 35# or so. Could be a bit more.

Again, this is an estimation or an educated guess.

[gregron]

Brick, do you have any examples of guys who are around 5’10 250-270 pounds who’s bodyfat is mid teens to 20%???

Photos for comparison purposes might be useful.

[BrickHead]

If I have it right, JL Holdsworth is about 275-280.

[BrickHead]

Probably 20 something percent there.

[Apoklyps]

Okay, legitimate question to PX about the actual study here. How is this relevant to us as lifters in any way?

While it may be true that there exist differences between blacks and whites in LBM (and I am not disputing the experimental methodology of the study), the nature of the study would indicate that it’s not really relevant to measuring individual differences anyway. The study analyzes the statistical difference in the means of two populations, correct? Then why would you consider applying it to individuals? This is the same fallacy of BMI. You’re highly educated in the sciences. You really should know better.

Should’ve just dropped the pretext and called the thread “Natty Limits #179” because that’s what it is.

[mbdix]

[quote]GrindOverMatter wrote:

[quote]mbdix wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]baugust wrote:

X, why not just get your body fat tested by a professional, post your numbers with your weight, and show the “approximate” amount of muscle you’ve gained? Please don’t respond with “I’m not going out of my way to do that for the people that argue with me.” It literally takes 5 minutes by caliper, and you could even go a more scientific route (i.e. DEXA) if you’d prefer. [/quote]

I already did that when I was 250 and measured at 16% body fat several months back.

I have gained weight since then for the first time in a few years going back up to 270lbs.

Any other questions, just ask.

I think I also saw you mention you were planning on leaning down a bit. This would be the appropriate time to determine where you actually stand. You seem to be quite interested in physiology and biology, so I would assume, like me, obtaining appromximate numbers of your mass, body fat, etc. would be more important to you. I understand that at the end of the day you just want to look good (or whatever your goal is with all of this working out, science talk, etc.), but don’t you want to quantify it?

I don’t actually care in quantifying the exact number…until I see someone make a grossly incorrect statement about it.

My goal is to eventually be both bigger and leaner. I am working towards that goal and am doing just fine. That avatar was taken the day before yesterday at a weight of 270lbs. I will diet later this year and only to the point that I am satisfied. The exact number isn’t the goal.[/quote]

I don’t normally get involved in this but, Would you agree X that you would be around 220#s in contest shape? I know that is not your goal. Just curious. With what you have built muscle wise do you think you would be stage ready around 220#s?[/quote]
Lol no he would not be 220 with any type of respectable conditioning. That I’m sure of
[/quote]

Re-calculated and with 4 lbs of muscle lost while dropping to stage ready condition I would estimate 205 lbs stage ready body weight. 220 lbs would put X around 10% body fat % which would be respectable conditioning IMO.

[The_Mighty_Stu]

[quote]mbdix wrote:

Re-calculated and with 4 lbs of muscle lost while dropping to stage ready condition I would estimate 205 lbs stage ready body weight. 220 lbs would put X around 10% body fat % which would be respectable conditioning IMO. [/quote]

While I won’t venture any guesses because we all know how X thinks I have a personal vendetta, simply for comparison sake, consider our beloved Christian Thibs. A gifted athlete no doubt, Christian stands about 5’10, and competed onstage at a very hard and dense 190-195 lbs if I recall correctly.

S

[steven_alex]

Why do we need this thread exactly?

[mbdix]

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:

[quote]mbdix wrote:

Re-calculated and with 4 lbs of muscle lost while dropping to stage ready condition I would estimate 205 lbs stage ready body weight. 220 lbs would put X around 10% body fat % which would be respectable conditioning IMO. [/quote]

While I won’t venture any guesses because we all know how X thinks I have a personal vendetta, simply for comparison sake, consider our beloved Christian Thibs. A gifted athlete no doubt, Christian stands about 5’10, and competed onstage at a very hard and dense 190-195 lbs if I recall correctly.

S
[/quote]

Yeah, I only put 4lbs muscle loss. I really do not have a clue how many lbs of muscle would be lost in a X cut. I only know some would be lost.

Much respect for CT.