To me a bodybuilder is someone that competes in the sport of bodybuilding.
You are not a hockey player if you play hockey 3-4/year with your friends
if you are not competing in the sport of bodybuilding, you are either someone working out to become a bodybuilder or someone working out to look good
Building your body to look better and bodybuilding are 2 differents things, at least to me
[quote]SteelyD wrote:
Are you a bodybuilder? If someone overhears you talking about the gym and asks if you are a ‘bodybuilder’ what do you say?
[/quote]
id never admit i was a bodybuilder. im just a normal guy who likes lifting heavy ass shit, eating a ton of food, and looking bigger than as many other guys as possible in my day to day life.
Bodybuilding to T-Nation at this moment in time is a paradox. On one hand there are the forums which push traditional bodybuilding methods that have been proven to work time and time again. On the other hand there are the articles/livespills that push new ideas opposite to “normal bodybuilding.” Bodybuilding is a dogmatic sport and for good reason; it sucks to waste time on methods that dont work especially when there is money on the line like in competitive bodybuilding. The traditional methods have produced mass monsters for a long time so there’s almost no risk. Gain strength for reps and eat, you will gain muscle.
But i like what CT is doing. He’s pushing new methods and will be critized for it, its expected. Change is always rejected at first but it is necessary. Dante was critized when he first put out DC principles but now his methods have been proved to work beyond a
doubt. Surely modern bodybuilding methods cant be the end of the progression of bodybuilding methods. There has to be a better way to build muscle than the conventional way and maybe CT’s way is better. Synergy and ParagonA use CT’s methods and both are competing bidybuilders. Ashylarryku uses CT’s methods and is progressing faster than nearly everyone in the site (including myself).
What i’m trying to say is that bodybuilding methods will always advance as time passes. From the methods of the early strongman to the beginning of splits to the era of high volume and to the current methods, they’re always changing and they will always be criticized when they first came out.
[quote]SteelyD wrote:
[quote]A.Lurker wrote:
[quote]SteelyD wrote:
I was going to qualify the question, but I’ll leave it wide open.
Go.[/quote]
I’m not entirely sure what you mean, but go ahead and quantify…
[/quote]
I want opinions/discussions of what “Bodybuilding” means/is to this forum community and if possible, to the Mods/TN-Staff.
I didn’t want to box the discussion in any way – competitive/non, etc.
Who here is a ‘bodybuilder’? Are you a bodybuilder? If someone overhears you talking about the gym and asks if you are a ‘bodybuilder’ what do you say? What if the person next to you disagrees that you are NOT a bodybuilder?
Do you ‘workout’ or do you ‘train’? If you have been lifting for 3 months, are you a ‘bodybuilder’? 1 year? 5 years? 10 years? Fat? Lean? Big? Small? Compete? Health? Fitness?
What is ‘bodybuilding’ to TN members?
Who is a bodybuilder? Why or why not?
At what point are you ‘bodybuilding’?
Remember that famous declaration? THIS IS THE BODYBUILDING FORUM!!!
[/quote]
I like to think that anyone who is lifting to make themselves bigger, stronger, more muscular, leaner, whatever, is “bodybuilding,” but I don’t think that makes them a bodybuilder. I think competing makes one a bodybuilder. I also think anyone who works to increase their bench, squat, and deadlift, is partaking in powerlifting, but they’re not a powerlifter until they compete. In the same way that if I get a bunch of friends together and we play football on Sundays, we are playing football, but we wouldn’t call ourselves football players if we’re not members of a football team.
To begin with, I feel that rules are made to be challenged, questioned, changed or completely broken. There is no ‘absolute’ right way, or wrong way, to workout!
Too many bodybuilders on T-Nation, unquestionably, slave away year in and out with exercises and concepts they never bother to really analyze or explain. They don’t even seem to notice they are not getting results! They seem to think that some morning they will wake up, look in the mirror, and lo and behold, they will have attained a beautiful body.
I try things that are not logical to me by actually doing the thing physically. In doing physically, I sometimes find a logic that I could not have ever seen unless I experienced the thing physically. What I am trying to be is flexible in my thinking, and also give new concepts a fair and working chance. My penchant is to get away from the usual monkey-see monkey-do you see these days in the gym and this forum by experimenting with the unusual.
I feel that when it comes to bodybuilding there are no magical secrets besides a open-minded philosophy, or formula of thinking, that works with any problem or question
What could be more creative than changing, developing, renewing and altering your body?
I think if we’re talking in the strict sense of the term, a ‘bodybuilder’ is one that bodybuilds with the goal of competing in a competition.
However, I think that anyone who is looking to improve their body in appearance can be a bodybuilder.
It does get hard to classify since bodybuilding can literally mean “if you build your body, you’re bodybuilding.” I think an important aspect of anyone that truly bodybuilds, whether they compete or not, is knowledge of your weak parts and knowledge of what you need to work on. Also, honesty with one’s self is very important.
[quote]SLAINGE wrote:
[quote]j70 wrote:
One of my favorite part’s of T-Nation was the sense of manliness that the site used to convey. TC wrote awesome articles every Friday talking about vagaygays, boobs, what it means to be a good man. The site was bad ass, they ran interesting articles regarding steroids and didn’t care if the article started a shitstorm. On Monday they would come out with an old school bodybuilding program and on Tuesday they would run a completely opposite article with something from CW. We used to have good discussion and intellegent posters which stimulated the site and made things more interesting. And now we don’t.
[/quote]
X 2
That manly man mantra is sadly missed! [/quote]
I remember reading the last atomic dog article. That was a sad day for me.
-Zep
I think that the majority of the people on this website confuse weightlifting as a general subject with bodybuilding. I think a lot of this stems from peoples inability to understand that a lot of what is posted on the website is not bodybuilding however that T-Nation was started as an online bodybuilding magazine.
Really I think this is the case because not much changes about how people train in bodybuilding. Its pretty simple when you think about it. How many times can you write about splits in 10 years and not overlap? Especially with at least 5 articles coming out a week. T-Nation used to be a lot more hardcore than it is now, but I guess that is what happens when you start to appeal to the masses. Talking to people on this board have done more for getting me closer to my overall goal than reading the articles have done though.
-Zep
Hmmm Bodybuilding to TNation right now is John Meadows, bodybuilding forum, and bodybuilders and people bodybuilding in the training log section. Used to have frequent live spills and article from Shelby when I first joined a little over a year ago but that is no more. Even though the bodybuilding forum gets complained about more than any, it’s still the best place for bbing info on the site.
I’ve learned more from Stu’s thread and other competition threads than anywhere else on the site. The BBing forum gets complained about more than any but there is some good stuff in there. I even enjoy the shitstorms so you won’t see me complaining haha.
Somewhat like ebomb said- BodybuildER- someone who competes in the sport of bodybuilding. BodybuildING can be more general to include the recreational lifter. BodybuildER is like being a “baseball player” and bodybuildING is simply someone “playing baseball.” So bodybuildING is a very broad term imo.
Using the baseball analogy, playing catch with a friend in the backyard could be considered “playing baseball.” Someone walking into the gym for the first time and doing curls in the squat rack is bodybuilding because, yes, they are building their body in some fasion. But they are not a bodybuildER.
I’m with Waylander I have a hard tim getting on board with rings and backward jumps onto a mat. Why not have an article outlining how to incorporate them atleast?
Bodybuilding is using weightlifting and precise nutrition as tools to develop appreciable muscle mass while prioritizing symmetry and aesthetic appeal over raw strength…at least in my world. Also, I have never competed but I would like to compete one day. I think that’s another important aspect of bodybuilding: not necessarily competing but looking like you could and having the knowledge and dedication to be successful if you actually did.
Even if you never compete with others, the process of constantly competing with yourself, the endless determination to improve your own physique day in and day out- I think that’s a trait true of any bodybuilder.
[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
Somewhat like ebomb said- BodybuildER- someone who competes in the sport of bodybuilding. BodybuildING can be more general to include the recreational lifter. BodybuildER is like being a “baseball player” and bodybuildING is simply someone “playing baseball.” So bodybuildING is a very broad term imo. Using the baseball analogy, playing catch with a friend in the backyard could be considered “playing baseball.” Someone walking into the gym for the first time and doing curls in the squat rack is bodybuilding because, yes, they are building their body in some fasion. But they are not a bodybuildER.
I’m with Waylander I have a hard tim getting on board with rings and backward jumps onto a mat. Why not have an article outlining how to incorporate them atleast?[/quote]
This for me.
Disclaimer, i have been a loyal Biotest customer since 04, and a T-Nation reader for much longer.
T-Nation WAS the bodybuilder’s think tank. A place where information and discussion on bodybuilding ans Steriod use was freely open. A place to learn and debate free of the fear of criticism and dogma the public drags into both topics. Hell we all used to buy and dicuss prohormones on here free of ridicule and judement.
Now bodybuilding on T-Nation is an interactive advertising campaign for Biotest Supps. The community is dead. Now it is just an internet dick measuring contest and the cruicble for steriods. T-Nation stood for Testosterone back in the day, as in anabolic steroids. Now every bodybuilding topic or discussion is just a debate of if they use, if it is morally right that they used, how much did they use, youre stupid if you think they use, youre stupid if you think they are clean.
Dont get me started on the rate my physique forum, which is either a newbie bragging about being average or a great physique having to defend his or her ‘natty status’.
I came to T-Nation to learn how to build muscle, lose fat, get stronger, laugh and learn about Steriods in an informative and judgefree manner. Now i come to scroll throught the archives and spend time laughing at the forum from the peanut gallery.
/RIP T-Nation
A lot of great points being made here. My thoughts briefly:
Truly miss Atomic Dog regular articles, to me this was the whole point of being a ‘t-man’ and the closest thing I find these days is Chaos & Pain blog, which is a much more extreme equivalent of some similar ideas.
I train for bodybuilding, but wouldn’t define myself as a bodybuilder until I diet for a show really.
I also train the powerlifts hard, but again wouldn’t define myself as a powerlifter. Perhaps even after I do a meet I will still not define myself as a powerlifter, just that I enjoy powerlifting.
In other words, you define yourself. Part of me thinks you are going to label yourself a bodybuilder, a minimal requirement is a lot of muscle mass and have dieted to low % BF at least once. But really, if someone has a ton of muscle mass and trains specifically for bodybuilding, I’m not gonna get all butthurt just because they haven’t competed and still want to call themselves a bodybuilder, even though them doing so would silence the haters.
One can’t claim to be an authority on every aspect of bodybuilding unless one has competed though, obviously.
I lift to improve the way I look but don’t pass for or consider myself a bodybuilder. As many have said, you got to get on stage wearing your budgie smugglers for that.
[quote]Waittz wrote:
Disclaimer, i have been a loyal Biotest customer since 04, and a T-Nation reader for much longer.
T-Nation WAS the bodybuilder’s think tank. A place where information and discussion on bodybuilding ans Steriod use was freely open. A place to learn and debate free of the fear of criticism and dogma the public drags into both topics. Hell we all used to buy and dicuss prohormones on here free of ridicule and judement.
Now bodybuilding on T-Nation is an interactive advertising campaign for Biotest Supps. The community is dead. Now it is just an internet dick measuring contest and the cruicble for steriods. T-Nation stood for Testosterone back in the day, as in anabolic steroids. Now every bodybuilding topic or discussion is just a debate of if they use, if it is morally right that they used, how much did they use, youre stupid if you think they use, youre stupid if you think they are clean. Dont get me started on the rate my physique forum, which is either a newbie bragging about being average or a great physique having to defend his or her ‘natty status’.
I came to T-Nation to learn how to build muscle, lose fat, get stronger, laugh and learn about Steriods in an informative and judgefree manner. Now i come to scroll throught the archives and spend time laughing at the forum from the peanut gallery.
/RIP T-Nation[/quote]
Best Post. So tired of the “he used roidz, people…you see, I know the truth and the rest of you are clueless about steroid use if you aren’t yelling it out every time an impressive picture gets posted!!!”. It’s Jersey Shore, T-Nation edition.
I’m sincerely bothered that all of the guys posting articles look average and none of them look exceptional to the sport/science by which they are writing (save maybe a few).
That’s like going to see a dietician and its some 300lb fatty whose sitting there eating a box of Krispy Kremes. I can understand that folks can have knowledge and not be a shining example of what they know… but if this is your passion, your life, and what pays your damned bills, then why aren’t you the best advertisement for your business?
The one thing that bugs me the most, as others have said, is this constant e-peen measure contest. Apparently there is a division between competitive untested bodybuilders, competitive natural bodybuilders, aspiring bodybuilders, recreational bodybuilders (wtf does that mean?), and lastly gym rats.
Who the fuck cares what level you’re at? Seriously. Yes, the guys at the higher levels may have more information to provide, but its rarely those guys that are the dicks to people asking questions. It’s the middle group that constantly put others down. Everyone is here for a similar reason and that is to learn about something they enjoy doing, to maximize the time they spend in the gym for results, and pick up a clue here and there on how to look like some of the better “built” dudes in this forum.
I’ve seen the “recreational” term thrown around like its some kind of sin. So what counts as serious? Lifting religiously 4-5 days a week never missing a workout unless you are bed-ridden, making your cardio religiously so the extra calories you eat that aren’t used for muscle are burned instead of stored as fat, and eating 5-6 times a day evenly sized and spaced meals to maximize growth potential… that to me is pretty damn hardcore. In fact, anyone who does 1 or 2 of those things goes beyond recreational in my eyes.
The problem here is that people no longer really seem to care about discussion as everyone is a guru or some sort, pro, or can’t be bothered. That is what is and will destroy the community. There have already been some folks who have left and gone elsewhere and started up a new community because of the crap happening here.
Don’t blame the sponsors/owners of the site, blame the users/posters.
[quote]Quasi-Tech wrote:
I’m sincerely bothered that all of the guys posting articles look average and none of them look exceptional to the sport/science by which they are writing (save maybe a few).
That’s like going to see a dietician and its some 300lb fatty whose sitting there eating a box of Krispy Kremes. I can understand that folks can have knowledge and not be a shining example of what they know… but if this is your passion, your life, and what pays your damned bills, then why aren’t you the best advertisement for your business?
The one thing that bugs me the most, as others have said, is this constant e-peen measure contest. Apparently there is a division between competitive untested bodybuilders, competitive natural bodybuilders, aspiring bodybuilders, recreational bodybuilders (wtf does that mean?), and lastly gym rats.
Who the fuck cares what level you’re at? Seriously. Yes, the guys at the higher levels may have more information to provide, but its rarely those guys that are the dicks to people asking questions. It’s the middle group that constantly put others down. Everyone is here for a similar reason and that is to learn about something they enjoy doing, to maximize the time they spend in the gym for results, and pick up a clue here and there on how to look like some of the better “built” dudes in this forum.
I’ve seen the “recreational” term thrown around like its some kind of sin. So what counts as serious? Lifting religiously 4-5 days a week never missing a workout unless you are bed-ridden, making your cardio religiously so the extra calories you eat that aren’t used for muscle are burned instead of stored as fat, and eating 5-6 times a day evenly sized and spaced meals to maximize growth potential… that to me is pretty damn hardcore. In fact, anyone who does 1 or 2 of those things goes beyond recreational in my eyes.
The problem here is that people no longer really seem to care about discussion as everyone is a guru or some sort, pro, or can’t be bothered. That is what is and will destroy the community. There have already been some folks who have left and gone elsewhere and started up a new community because of the crap happening here.
Don’t blame the sponsors/owners of the site, blame the users/posters.[/quote]
This was well written and I agree completely. How serious you are is based on your effort and your results. Degrading that by telling everyone what they can call themselves doesn’t do anything but destroy what used to be a pretty close knit community.
When I walk into Metroflex in Houston, I don’t hear big guys running around calling other people “fat” because they are’t 10% body fat or acting like the guy who worked his ass off and made great progress can’t call himself a “bodybuilder”.
At one time, the whole fucking gym, bodybuilders and powerlifters got along and were considered different aspects of the same damn thing.
The bro-elitism we are seeing lately will ensure that community never melds together again.
Didn’t know this was a what do you think of the forum question?
[quote]Quasi-Tech wrote:
The one thing that bugs me the most, as others have said, is this constant e-peen measure contest. Apparently there is a division between competitive untested bodybuilders, competitive natural bodybuilders, aspiring bodybuilders, recreational bodybuilders (wtf does that mean?), and lastly gym rats.
Who the fuck cares what level you’re at? Seriously. Yes, the guys at the higher levels may have more information to provide, but its rarely those guys that are the dicks to people asking questions. It’s the middle group that constantly put others down. Everyone is here for a similar reason and that is to learn about something they enjoy doing, to maximize the time they spend in the gym for results, and pick up a clue here and there on how to look like some of the better “built” dudes in this forum.
[/quote]
This I have seen, and as you mention, it’s hardly ever the folks who have truly accomplished something that care about throwing out terms, or disparaging others. My personal affections towards this site are because I basically started out here 12 years ago, reading as many articles as I could, and trying to pin down common themes while objectively trying new approaches not discussed in the muscle rags.
Over the years, I’ve obviously made progress, learned a hell of a lot, and the past few years find myself one of the guys who gets tons of PMs and emails each week asking me questions. Recognizing that I’m now on the other side of the coin, I do my best to return the favor and pass on the knowledge as best as I can.
That doesn’t mean that people with different approaches from mine are necessarily wrong, or that people who haven’t achieved similar accomplishments are beneath my notice. For whatever reason, I think most people just need labels to distinguish themselves from others, and levels of accomplishment, whether real or imagined always come into play.
As to the separation of natty and enhanced, most natty guys I know understand that using PEDs does change the game a bit, but it doesn’t mean that PED users train and easier than we do (although I will argue that we need to be a bit more obsessive about dieting and muscle retention). At the IFBB level, and even the NPC level, it’s a pretty fair assumption that 99% of the competitors have access to the same ‘stuff’, an as such, the field is leveled. Discussing it to death, especially when most folks don’t really understand, or desire to know, the different compounds anyway, is just silly.
To me, bodybuilding is any endeavor whereby you attempt to reshape your physique. That entails muscle building as well as fat loss. Whether you consider stepping onstage a requisite for the title is irrelevant to me.
I had a very difficult time calling myself a bodybuilder up until recently. Years of watching videos and reading Flex magazine had vividly created an image in my mind that prevented me from putting myself under the same title used to describe Arnold, Yates etc. I would tell people who would ask that I “liked to compete in natural bodybuilding contests”, but never said I “was a bodybuilder”.
Only the last year or so, do I finally recognize that having appeared in magazines, training videos, had people from other countries hire me as an online coach, and even being recognized by people in gyms and in the audience at contests pretty much means that everyone ELSE sees me under their definition of the title.
Whether it’s because I’ve stepped onstage and successfully won a trophy, or simply because I’ve turned my skinny-fat 20 year old body into something that resembles a statue doesn’t matter to me. All I care about is the fact that I BUILT this BODY, and understanding that, I respect anyone who does similarly.
S
A number of people leave this website because there is NOTHING here for NPC competitors or anyone interested in the enhanced route. The steroid forum is a barely worth noting now, and the perma bulk attitude of this forum is just filled with fail, but whenever an alternative to that is suggested it gets attacked.
People serious about competing will never stick around here unless they’ve already been here for years and “grew up” here/like a good number of the posters. The articles/attitude of T-Nation does not help this either. If you don’t like the term “recreational” sorry, but that’s the main audience/demographic of this forum nowadays.