[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
This is one of the points that drives me craziest. Most of the “I don’t wanna be huge” guys will never even look good nekkid.[/quote]
Can you really blame them when so many fools like undeadlift make this so damn confusing?
[quote]Tex Ag wrote:
I think there is a divide between those who want to get bigger and those who want to get big. While there is significant overlap, this divide seems to invite vitriol. Perhaps there should be another forum topic. Perhaps something as simple as ‘Intermediate’.
[/quote]
Perhaps people should realize that there never needed to be a distinction before because common sense dictates that if you want to get big/bigger/or whatever, you follow what the big guys have done and stop when you reach your own personal goal.
Perhaps no one should be making excuses for this mindset.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
You think some guy who wants “to look good in the beach or look good nekkid” is going to do that without GAINING any muscle mass which would usually involve getting bigger and heavier? You think they would “look good nekkid” without being in proportion?
[/quote]
Please tell me you are being rhetorical, or at the very least tell me you haven’t been reading this site for the last 2-3 years.
You can’t swing a dead cat around here without hitting some idiot who thinks exactly what you said. No - they don’t want to lift. No - they don’t want to add muscle. To them - it is all about rocking the six-pack.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
Professor X wrote:
You think some guy who wants “to look good in the beach or look good nekkid” is going to do that without GAINING any muscle mass which would usually involve getting bigger and heavier? You think they would “look good nekkid” without being in proportion?
Please tell me you are being rhetorical, or at the very least tell me you haven’t been reading this site for the last 2-3 years.
You can’t swing a dead cat around here without hitting some idiot who thinks exactly what you said. No - they don’t want to lift. No - they don’t want to add muscle. To them - it is all about rocking the six-pack.
[/quote]
I knew there were some here who didn’t train but I wasn’t aware that there were any quite so retarded to think they would look like models on the covers of magazines without any gain in muscle mass at all.
My mistake. I will assume complete idiocy from now on.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Tex Ag wrote:
I think there is a divide between those who want to get bigger and those who want to get big. While there is significant overlap, this divide seems to invite vitriol. Perhaps there should be another forum topic. Perhaps something as simple as ‘Intermediate’.
Perhaps people should realize that there never needed to be a distinction before because common sense dictates that if you want to get big/bigger/or whatever, you follow what the big guys have done and stop when you reach your own personal goal.
Perhaps no one should be making excuses for this mindset. [/quote]
No excuses, but if you want a better discussion it might be a way to clearing out some of these questions.
That said, if people cannot put strength questions in the forum with strength in the name, this probably would not help either.
[quote]Tex Ag wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Tex Ag wrote:
I think there is a divide between those who want to get bigger and those who want to get big. While there is significant overlap, this divide seems to invite vitriol. Perhaps there should be another forum topic. Perhaps something as simple as ‘Intermediate’.
Perhaps people should realize that there never needed to be a distinction before because common sense dictates that if you want to get big/bigger/or whatever, you follow what the big guys have done and stop when you reach your own personal goal.
Perhaps no one should be making excuses for this mindset.
No excuses, but if you want a better discussion it might be a way to clearing out some of these questions.
That said, if people cannot put strength questions in the forum with strength in the name, this probably would not help either.[/quote]
If the fundamental concept of gaining muscle mass is so misunderstood that people think you would somehow train differently if your goal was 260lbs rather than 190lbs, what would a different category do other than cause more confusion?
These guys don’t even understand that they should be training the same way. That means most of them probably don’t even have a gym membership or access to any other people who lift weights.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Tex Ag wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Tex Ag wrote:
I think there is a divide between those who want to get bigger and those who want to get big. While there is significant overlap, this divide seems to invite vitriol. Perhaps there should be another forum topic. Perhaps something as simple as ‘Intermediate’.
Perhaps people should realize that there never needed to be a distinction before because common sense dictates that if you want to get big/bigger/or whatever, you follow what the big guys have done and stop when you reach your own personal goal.
Perhaps no one should be making excuses for this mindset.
No excuses, but if you want a better discussion it might be a way to clearing out some of these questions.
That said, if people cannot put strength questions in the forum with strength in the name, this probably would not help either.
If the fundamental concept of gaining muscle mass is so misunderstood that people think you would somehow train differently if your goal was 260lbs rather than 190lbs, what would a different category do other than cause more confusion?
These guys don’t even understand that they should be training the same way. That means most of them probably don’t even have a gym membership or access to any other people who lift weights.[/quote]
I think it is fundamentally misunderstood and culturally frowned upon. There is more misinformation (Beckem has a hawt bod and a standard 40inch chest is ‘built’ on the 6 foot male model) complied with the ever-present ‘don’t get too big’ from family and girls (no offense) that the fear of getting big actually encourages less efficient workouts because it addresses both the need to workout (good to be fit) and the fear of getting to big (because you won’t).
This misinformation is even promoted in gyms where risk=heavy weights, so they discourage heavy weights to minimize their fiscal risks. Add to that the obsession with diets and thinness.
Within this environment the relatively simple idea of lift heavy and often and eat a lot seems perplexing. It will remain perplexing until the individual experiences the gains that come from that ‘simple’ logic. Until then, it might as well be a secret code.
[quote]Tex Ag wrote:
It will remain perplexing until the individual experiences the gains that come from that ‘simple’ logic. Until then, it might as well be a secret code.[/quote]
Which would mean our goal should be to ostracize those who don’t workout but who insist on giving their own training philosophy to others as “advice”. Until someone gets into a gym and realizes what it takes to see any progress at all, talk is pointless.
I’ve been saying that for a long time.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
2274 wrote:
I don’t mean to ask a stupid question, but do all the people in this bodybuilding forum want to have bodybuilder-ish physiques? I mean I’m sure there are people in this forum who just want to look good in the beach or look good nekkid.
Answer this first;
Do you think the method is different between the two when it comes to reaching that goal?[/quote]
Well, duh. The methods should be the same. The mindset should be the same. The dedication should be the same. People who want to look good should train, eat and think like a true bodybuilder. They should know that by heart.
But for these people, what they look to society DOES matter. If there are such people in this forum, who train, eat and think like a true bodybuilder but have different goals altogether, should we be hostile to them? Should we avoid comments (like the one I made about cultural subjectivity) that don’t help the real bodybuilders but can be of benefit to those who just want to look good?
But before you attack me again, there’s a reason why I shouldn’t gain weight if I wanna continue training like a powerlifter (anyone can PM if interested coz it’s a long story).
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Until someone gets into a gym and realizes what it takes to see any progress at all, talk is pointless.
I’ve been saying that for a long time.[/quote]
I agree, so much about the comments on this site address issues of uncertainty rather than action. This condition conflates simple questions, such as my arm-torso earlier, into far more than they need to be. I think that is why some just refer the OP to an article. Fast and simple. Let them read.
Maybe the practice of non-response may be the best for poorly throughout or researched questions.
[quote]Tex Ag wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Until someone gets into a gym and realizes what it takes to see any progress at all, talk is pointless.
I’ve been saying that for a long time.
I agree, so much about the comments on this site address issues of uncertainty rather than action. This condition conflates simple questions, such as my arm-torso earlier, into far more than they need to be. I think that is why some just refer the OP to an article. Fast and simple. Let them read.
Maybe the practice of non-response may be the best for poorly throughout or researched questions.[/quote]
I don’t want to come off the wrong way, but the biggest problem average people showing up here have is that they have little ability for independent thought and little intuition for training in general. That combination gives rise to hordes of people who are lost, confused and not much further along than they were last year. Even these people CAN make progress, but burying them in information is precisely the last thing they need.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Even these people CAN make progress, but burying them in information is precisely the last thing they need.[/quote]
But they seek information. The stickies in the Beginners is the first stop, articles that address their question the second. If there is a question that is not addressed readily in those two spaces, then discuss.
I think the Beginners forum is underutilized and the Bodybuilding forum is abused. and while I am at it, logs should be in their own forum.
Honestly I liked Berardi’s setup over at his PN website. He has a “getting in shape and healthy” section and a “muscle gain:advanced” section. If you are going to post in the bodybuilding section here people are going to assume you have bodybuilding goals in mind.
To backtrack a few pages haha, I’m interested in what Tiribulus and Professor view as big.
[quote]Tex Ag wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
Even these people CAN make progress, but burying them in information is precisely the last thing they need.
But they seek information. The stickies in the Beginners is the first stop, articles that address their question the second. If there is a question that is not addressed readily in those two spaces, then discuss.
I think the Beginners forum is underutilized and the Bodybuilding forum is abused. and while I am at it, logs should be in their own forum.[/quote]
This will piss some people off, but the way I see it guys who will ultimately do very well in this game will get there whether there was an internet or not. Those who won’t can’t be helped by any body or any thing and the rest require personal in house supervision to really get on track. That means a rich resource like this is only valuable for people who know how to peruse with discernment and those who already have a foundation of at least basic knowledge of what they’re doing.
The guy who decides to workout and goes to google looking for information is setting himself up for a mind bending headache. Unless they are innately equipped for weight training in the first place.
Absolutely 100% agree with you there Tiribulus. I’ve been looking for a way to put my thought process of this into a coherent sentence or two about that topic for awhile. Still can’t do it haha, but we are definitely on the same page. You have mail by the way.
[quote]Scott M wrote:
Honestly I liked Berardi’s setup over at his PN website. He has a “getting in shape and healthy” section and a “muscle gain:advanced” section. If you are going to post in the bodybuilding section here people are going to assume you have bodybuilding goals in mind.
To backtrack a few pages haha, I’m interested in what Tiribulus and Professor view as big.[/quote]
You know I hate to admit this, but I stopped assuming that a long time ago.
“Big” to me is somebody clearly involved in a concerted effort to be that way. On one level big is always bigger than I am. On another level I always know it when I see it. There are some guys I see and think, “hmmm, that dude takes care of himself” which is more than you can say for a most people, but that isn’t the same as “WOW, that guy is frickin huge” I have at least some respect for anybody who is making progress.
You aren’t big by next week and you do come across guys before they are there which isn’t a reason to think they’re not serious unless you see them six months later and they don’t look any different.