What Doesn't Kill You, Makes You Stronger

Bigger Stronger Leaner
21

[quote]RATTLEHEAD wrote:
Thanks heavythrower :slight_smile:

How is training/eating going now btw recluse? [/quote]

My gym partner has dropped out. Which isn’t cool…Feeling a bit demotivated from being a little sick. I thought perhaps changing my routine slightly would perk things up a bit, so I am in the process of making a routine, with the goals to reach certain numbers in some exercises and some reps with “x” weight in other exercises.
Keep it basic as my gym isn’t the best. By doing this also, I hope it will help with how I recover as I often get “sick” from not recovering from the gym on a regular basis.
But my legs and arms have been growing. And my strength is increasing, so at least there is something positive!

Eating isn’t great. I am eating as much as I can get my hands on. But it isn’t really “optimal”. But as soon as I get a consistent income I can get some more food in.

22

guns, i am a health care professional, trust me, i know the pitfalls of surgery, and if anybody knows to make surgery a last resort, its me.

all my surgeries were absolutely necessary, i would be worse without them. i would have an non funtioning left arm, it literally would be dangling useless at my side, and i was having progressive nerve degeneration from the neck injury.

the other stuff i am putting off as long as possible. modifying behavior, training smarter, etc.

i have used steroids in the past, and now under doctor supervised HRT ( i am 45 years old)

thanks for you input, but again, trust me, i know whats what in this regard.

23

[quote]The Recluse wrote:

[quote]heavythrower wrote:
actually, i think if i could go back knowing what i know now, i would have done it differently.

that may sound a bit whiny and somewhat “north of vag” as jim wendler would say, but its true. i wish i was not in the state i am today enough that maybe i should have been more concerned with appearance and health back then.
[/quote]

So had you of been more concerned, what would you of done differently. Health and appearance wise (hypothetically).

There is a man in his late 60’s, who has a small garage gym near the gym I go too, he was a decent powerlifter. Or so I hear!
But even now, once warmed up, he can squat and dead in the high 400’s. Which is amazing! He has competed in the older classes, but due to being ill and stuff, he prefers training in his gym, when he can, with the younger folk. [/quote]

probably would have not went the rout that made me want to be a big and strong as possible.

that meant maybe choosing a sport where size was not as big of a factor. maybe like combat sports where being in good shape and having weight classes creates less pressure on one to really pound the heavy weights and food to get to unreasonable size despite my small frame.

i am only 5-6, and my mother was 4 -10 and 80lbs. i have a very small bone structure, face it, i was not meant to carry 250 plus of weight on this frame.

maybe if i did wrestling, or soccer, i would not be a beat up as i am now.

24

[quote]heavythrower wrote:
guns, i am a health care professional, trust me, i know the pitfalls of surgery, and if anybody knows to make surgery a last resort, its me.

all my surgeries were absolutely necessary, i would be worse without them. i would have an non funtioning left arm, it literally would be dangling useless at my side, and i was having progressive nerve degeneration from the neck injury.

the other stuff i am putting off as long as possible. modifying behavior, training smarter, etc.

i have used steroids in the past, and now under doctor supervised HRT ( i am 45 years old)

thanks for you input, but again, trust me, i know whats what in this regard. [/quote]

Have you tried gh and peptides in conjunction with connective tissue supportive supplements? What steroids have you used? If you’d rather not discuss it in the open I’d be interested to know what you’ve tried and how it worked out for you, both from a scientific perspective and from my perspective as a younger lifter.

25

no worries guns, i have always been very open with my use of peds in my past competitive years and now with medial supervised hrt.

not sure the answer to your first question and i am not familer with the terms :peptides" and connective tissue supportive supplements" in this context mean.

i have used up to 500mg of various synthetic testosterone esters, usually with a mild anobolic such as nandrolin deconate or winstrol at 200-400mg/week with it. that was about as big and comlex as my stacks were back then

i did not stat using GH until i got into my 40s and started seeing a hrt doctor

now i use placement levels of test (200mg/week cypionate) and 2-3 ius of gh sq daily.

hope that answered your question

26

[quote]heavythrower wrote:
no worries guns, i have always been very open with my use of peds in my past competitive years and now with medial supervised hrt.

not sure the answer to your first question and i am not familer with the terms :peptides" and connective tissue supportive supplements" in this context mean.

i have used up to 500mg of various synthetic testosterone esters, usually with a mild anobolic such as nandrolin deconate or winstrol at 200-400mg/week with it. that was about as big and comlex as my stacks were back then

i did not stat using GH until i got into my 40s and started seeing a hrt doctor

now i use placement levels of test (200mg/week cypionate) and 2-3 ius of gh sq daily.

hope that answered your question[/quote]

Are you aware of winnys effects on connective tissue? It quite probably caused a lot of your issues through tendon weakening. When I say peptides I mean ghrp-6 and other growth hormone release peptides which are reported by many as having healing effects of their own independent of growth hormone. And when I mean support supplements I mean taking a high enough dose of glucosamine and chondroitin with your hgh and adequate amino acid sources for collagen production, so a hydrolysed collagen product.

27

yes. even back then, winny was known to be “hard on joints” from all the bro science going around. still, my use of winny was miniscule, deca was more common. which, has great effects on connective tissue.

i did take several courses of levaquin (an antibiotic which has lots of literature showing it to be horrible for the tendons) when i was younger due to recurrent upper resp infections i would get due to an at the time undiagnosed allergy.

but overall, i think i just trained crazy hard and 120% all the time, and i just did not have the genetics to keep up with all that.

most people who compete for any length of time at a even a marginally high level tend to have skeletal-muscular issues as they age.

in that regard, i am probley not the exception but the rule.

i am not discounting your suggestions, not at all, they seem reasonable, but i dont think my level of injuries is that unheard of in the aging ex athlete population.

by ex athlete, i mean people who competed for an extended period of time.

just about everybody played sports at a highschool level, i did so, but i continued in college for 4 years, then 10 years more on a regional and national level outside the ncaa.

28

[quote]heavythrower wrote:
yes. even back then, winny was known to be “hard on joints” from all the bro science going around. still, my use of winny was miniscule, deca was more common. which, has great effects on connective tissue.

i did take several courses of levaquin (an antibiotic which has lots of literature showing it to be horrible for the tendons) when i was younger due to recurrent upper resp infections i would get due to an at the time undiagnosed allergy.

but overall, i think i just trained crazy hard and 120% all the time, and i just did not have the genetics to keep up with all that.

most people who compete for any length of time at a even a marginally high level tend to have skeletal-muscular issues as they age.

in that regard, i am probley not the exception but the rule.

i am not discounting your suggestions, not at all, they seem reasonable, but i dont think my level of injuries is that unheard of in the aging ex athlete population.

by ex athlete, i mean people who competed for an extended period of time.

just about everybody played sports at a highschool level, i did so, but i continued in college for 4 years, then 10 years more on a regional and national level outside the ncaa. [/quote]

You’re right on the levaquin, it’s awful for connective tissue. I hear you completely, most people who compete and train as hard as you did suffer in later years. With regard to the deca, I used to recommend either deca or eq when on any cycle. Deca is extremely popular because of the effects it has on joints and injuries. Unfortunately though now I tend to think its a double edged sword. It also masks joint issues and pain extremely well, which to a hard training athlete is a receipe for disaster. Given its popularity as a drug, I think it’s no wonder injuries are as common as they are. Eq is a much better choice IMO, it has proven effects on collagen, as does anavar. Also, hgh tends to increase in benefit with respect to dose, 2iu is the absolute minimum, it doesn’t do that much above what your youthful levels did. To experience regeneration you have to dose it higher.

29

[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:

[quote]heavythrower wrote:
yes. even back then, winny was known to be “hard on joints” from all the bro science going around. still, my use of winny was miniscule, deca was more common. which, has great effects on connective tissue.

i did take several courses of levaquin (an antibiotic which has lots of literature showing it to be horrible for the tendons) when i was younger due to recurrent upper resp infections i would get due to an at the time undiagnosed allergy.

but overall, i think i just trained crazy hard and 120% all the time, and i just did not have the genetics to keep up with all that.

most people who compete for any length of time at a even a marginally high level tend to have skeletal-muscular issues as they age.

in that regard, i am probley not the exception but the rule.

i am not discounting your suggestions, not at all, they seem reasonable, but i dont think my level of injuries is that unheard of in the aging ex athlete population.

by ex athlete, i mean people who competed for an extended period of time.

just about everybody played sports at a highschool level, i did so, but i continued in college for 4 years, then 10 years more on a regional and national level outside the ncaa. [/quote]

You’re right on the levaquin, it’s awful for connective tissue. I hear you completely, most people who compete and train as hard as you did suffer in later years. With regard to the deca, I used to recommend either deca or eq when on any cycle. Deca is extremely popular because of the effects it has on joints and injuries. Unfortunately though now I tend to think its a double edged sword. It also masks joint issues and pain extremely well, which to a hard training athlete is a receipe for disaster.

Given its popularity as a drug, I think it’s no wonder injuries are as common as they are. Eq is a much better choice IMO, it has proven effects on collagen, as does anavar. Also, hgh tends to increase in benefit with respect to dose, 2iu is the absolute minimum, it doesn’t do that much above what your youthful levels did. To experience regeneration you have to dose it higher.
[/quote]

Other factors are also extremely important for collagen production. Copper status is one, as is vitamin c status. Zinc supplementation is extremely common. Unfortunately people don’t realise if you take too much zinc it depletes your copper reserves which affects the enzymes responsible for collagen formation.

30

thanks for the advice, i am limited to how much gh i can use as i am prescribed it, so each month i only have so much.

your take on eq and deca is interesting, i will look into that further.

in my years of being around competitive strength athletes, eq was very popular with the guys who had to stay in a certain weight class and make weight for a meet/contest. i never got into it so much as it seemed at the time somewhat cost prohibited and not as available as deca.

i am not opposed or have any moral qualms with getting things “underground” as far as doing stuff my MD does not prescribe, i have done it before recently post this last surgery, so i will look into eq some more as cost is not longer a real issue with me

no disrespect intended, but how old are you and if you may without getting more personal than you are comfortable with on a public forum, how old are you, what is your background and or qualifications to be speaking / giving advise on such subjects. ?

31

Oh wtf HT… You tore off your tricep? I was really hoping the triceps were more or less invincible :frowning:

Freaks me right the fuck out to hear of an injury like that.

32

ya, c. it is like my ortho said a pretty uncommon injury for most folk, but not so much in weightlifters and football linemen

33

[quote]csulli wrote:
Oh wtf HT… You tore off your tricep? I was really hoping the triceps were more or less invincible :frowning:

Freaks me right the fuck out to hear of an injury like that.[/quote]

branch warren also tore his a few years ago i think

HT - impressive you continue to train so much after these injuries

how do you manage to get prescribed GH - i.e. what is the medical reason you are given it? it seems crazy to me you can be permanently prescribed this every month. NO WAY would this this happen in some countries outside the US.

34

[quote]heavythrower wrote:
ya, c. it is like my ortho said a pretty uncommon injury for most folk, but not so much in weightlifters and football linemen [/quote]
Made me think for a minute HT.

Being a rabid football fan, what do you believe is the reason for the increase in Tricep and pec tears in the NFL? Back in our day you never heard this happening.

35

Well I’ll put a few injuries on here. I’m pretty sure since HT went first, after reading that everyone was just like “oh uh nevermind… compared to that I’ve practically never even been injured” Which is true, but still, we can share our less catastrophic experiences :slight_smile:

My main injury has been in the left side of my lower back, around the hip. Not sure what it was exactly, never got an MRI or had it properly diagnosed. Anyway I tore something down there when I was 18 and I walked with a noticeable limp for weeks. Sitting down and standing up were very painful. I could not bend at the waist pretty much at all. If you asked me to bend over and touch my toes, I couldn’t have even gotten my fingertips to mid-thigh. It took months to come back from. I reinjured that exact same muscle again sophomore year of college. I tore it a third time senior year of college. And I injured it for the fourth time almost exactly one year ago.

The final time wasn’t nearly as bad as the first three though; the symptoms and pain were much less severe. Every time before it took months before I could squat or deadlift (or move properly) again. This last time though I went to see a chiropractor who had also been a powerlifter. With his help, and the fact that the injury this time wasn’t nearly as bad, I was back in fighting shape in just a couple weeks. Also, he told me what was causing it. He said to pay attention to my left foot when I’m deadlifting and see if it tries to turn outward near the lockout once the weight or the reps start getting hard. Shockingly that is exactly what was happening; unless I consciously thought about it, I wouldn’t even notice or feel it happening. My left foot was turning out to try and compensate for some muscle weakness I assume, and it was putting too much stress in the wrong place causing one of the little muscles in the left side of my lower back to tear.

Since learning this I was able to stay cognisant of it and remain uninjured. The muscle imbalance causing my foot to do that seems to have been largely corrected by this. I will say though, that my left lower back has never felt the same, ever. My right side always feels better and stronger, whereas the left one feels like it doesn’t even have the same muscle structure as the right side lol. I have a hard time getting the musculature in the left side to “fire” like the right side does; it sort of feels like it’s dead or something back there is missing I dunno. It’s probably just mostly scar tissue at this point.

Anyway my deadlift is up nearly 150lbs since I last tore it so I really shouldn’t be complaining.

Other than that I strained my bicep pretty badly arm wrestling my training partner “Big Steve” in a bar. Haven’t arm wrestled since, and I never plan to again. It’s been about half a year since that and my right bicep still doesn’t feel like it used to. The tendon doesn’t feel good at all anymore. I am 100% certain it will snap one day; it’s a matter of when, not if.

I’ve hurt my right shoulder a bit as well basically horsing around and bullshitting the day after chest day. Fell too hard and the shoulder tightened up a lot like a defense mechanism trying to prevent my dumb ass from hurting it. Not a tear; I’m not sure what it was really. I had tendonitis issues for a few months after that. Bicep tendon at the shoulder would pop in and out of place. Again, that shoulder has never felt the same even now that it’s “healed”. Left one always feels tighter and stronger. Maybe if I get really lucky my right bicep will snap at both ends at the same time and the muscle will just be amorphously floating around in my upper arm like a dumpling in a bowl of soup.

Anyway, these injuries aren’t even noteworthy to a lot of dudes, but thankfully they’re all I’ve had to deal with so far. My lifts continue to improve :slight_smile:

36

[quote]RATTLEHEAD wrote:
Not physical, but depression was a truly hard thing to overcome but has made me all the stronger in every aspect of life.[/quote]

+1

Probably the hardest thing i’ve encountered (and still do) to overcome.

37

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]heavythrower wrote:
ya, c. it is like my ortho said a pretty uncommon injury for most folk, but not so much in weightlifters and football linemen [/quote]
Made me think for a minute HT.

Being a rabid football fan, what do you believe is the reason for the increase in Tricep and pec tears in the NFL? Back in our day you never heard this happening. [/quote]

surely it is because they are all bigger so lift heavier weights, opponents are bigger, more drugs

so chances of this happening go up

not a direct comparison but - serious injury has gone through the roof in rugby in the last 15 years due to huge changes in body comp/ size and training.

38

[quote]yolo84 wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]heavythrower wrote:
ya, c. it is like my ortho said a pretty uncommon injury for most folk, but not so much in weightlifters and football linemen [/quote]
Made me think for a minute HT.

Being a rabid football fan, what do you believe is the reason for the increase in Tricep and pec tears in the NFL? Back in our day you never heard this happening. [/quote]

surely it is because they are all bigger so lift heavier weights, opponents are bigger, more drugs

so chances of this happening go up

not a direct comparison but - serious injury has gone through the roof in rugby in the last 15 years due to huge changes in body comp/ size and training. [/quote]

Nobody cares about rugby

Plus why the drug comment?

I was actually asking someone in the medical field with years of lifting experience and competition experience.

39

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]yolo84 wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]heavythrower wrote:
ya, c. it is like my ortho said a pretty uncommon injury for most folk, but not so much in weightlifters and football linemen [/quote]
Made me think for a minute HT.

Being a rabid football fan, what do you believe is the reason for the increase in Tricep and pec tears in the NFL? Back in our day you never heard this happening. [/quote]

surely it is because they are all bigger so lift heavier weights, opponents are bigger, more drugs

so chances of this happening go up

not a direct comparison but - serious injury has gone through the roof in rugby in the last 15 years due to huge changes in body comp/ size and training. [/quote]

Nobody cares about rugby

Plus why the drug comment?

I was actually asking someone in the medical field with years of lifting experience and competition experience. [/quote]

drug comment because it impacts on both their size and training.

40

[quote]yolo84 wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]yolo84 wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]heavythrower wrote:
ya, c. it is like my ortho said a pretty uncommon injury for most folk, but not so much in weightlifters and football linemen [/quote]
Made me think for a minute HT.

Being a rabid football fan, what do you believe is the reason for the increase in Tricep and pec tears in the NFL? Back in our day you never heard this happening. [/quote]

surely it is because they are all bigger so lift heavier weights, opponents are bigger, more drugs

so chances of this happening go up

not a direct comparison but - serious injury has gone through the roof in rugby in the last 15 years due to huge changes in body comp/ size and training. [/quote]

Nobody cares about rugby

Plus why the drug comment?

I was actually asking someone in the medical field with years of lifting experience and competition experience. [/quote]

drug comment because it impacts on both their size and training. [/quote]

What drug component are you speaking of though?

Your belief is that everyone in the NFL is on PEDS?

Or maybe use when they were younger led to this?

I am always curious to see what people believe in this regards when they make that comment.