OK, I have to do something for school that involves me plotting the strength curve of three different trainees. The exercise I am using is the squat. My question is this for anyone who wants to help me out here. If you have been training with weights for less than two years, what can you squat for a 1RM 3RM, 6RM and 10RM. Thanks in advance to anyone who does answer this as it will be helpfull. It seems strange but I don’t know any trainees personally who have been training for less than 2 years.
Im 18 and have been training religiously for about 18 months. My 1RM is 360, 3RM is 335, 6RM is 300 and 10RM is 280.
thanks dave.
Hey Yo. Although I have been training for well over 2 years, this question interested me. Mostly because I think people are full of shit when it comes to squat numbers (or any lift numbers for that matter…well, I guess you can’t really bullshit when it comes to a deadlift, but anyway). For one, what type of squat? My full squat poundages look like crap compared to my powerlifting style squat(245 x 1 vs. 405 x 8). Second, if most people are using a power lift style of squat, what is the depth of their squat? I have worked out at my current “fitness facility” for over a year and I’ve only seen about 2-3 people do a squat to parallel or below. Any one can do a 1/4 squat with 400 pounds. Get real! Not that I think everyone who answers is a liar, but there needs to be some standard way to measure the data you want to use.
I know excactly what ur talkin about bjaffe, but just to let u know my #'s were from at parallel. I’m not quite sure what u mean by powerlifting style, but i generally use a wider than shoulder width stance and make sure to go to parallel.
Yeah Dave, that’s just the information I think that Yo needs. Squat to top of thighs parallel or “ass to grass” , something like that. If there is no detail about the form it is hard to compare. BTW I consider a powerlift style squat as a wide stance (just like you said) with a lot of forward lean compared to an olympic squat. I used to get the most amazing burn in my erectors after a set of powerlifting squats, but my knees were fallin’ apart from reversing at that joint angle. I only do full squats now and my knees feel great…I do miss the poundages from the PL squats though.
Hey guys,
bjaffe, I definitly agree that most people make up their squat numbers based on their best 1/4 squat. I can do about 325 “ass to the floor” style, which I’m pretty happy with since I’m 6’4". I’ve gone higher with the more powerlifting-style, but I like the Olympic-style better. In fact, this past week some high-school kids were watching me squat and I heard one of them say “But dude, he’s going way past parallel!” That gave me a little chuckle.
Wow Nate…That’s a great squat! I’m 6’4" too, so I can definitely understand how tuff it is to do a full squat. I can only do 245 right now. I didn’t work out for a couple of years after graduating from law school and starting a new job…then I had hernia surgery after I started back. I have been lifting semi-consistently (maybe about 10x per month) for about a year now. I haven’t pushed the poundages yet…I am starting to turn things up though. I am currently working on my arms w/ Ian Kings Guns program. I only work legs once a week, but my strength is going up really well since I am still regaining my old form. I have always been really thin (6’1" 138lbs. at 16 now 6’4" and 200), but I play basketball and lift mainly to improve athletically. I had to gain a lot of weight back after the layoff and surgery. I would love to hear about some of your training ideas and how you approached training to get your full squat up.
308 x 6 @ 178lbs bw 5’8"
deep …ass 2 grass
I think you were going very shallow on the PL squats to have that much of a difference unless you have an extraordinary difference in development between your quat and lower back/hams (in that case, a wide stance squat will be very good wheareas feet together will be crap). To be a powerlifting squat, the top of your thigh at the hip has to clear the top of the knee. My legs are big enough for that to actually be “ass to grass” (hams on calves). I can only do 455 and it’s pissing me off a bit because it feels easy until the last 5 inches. The hardest part for me is right off the bottom. At parallel and past, it’s easy so my rule of thumb is if I can get past the bottom, I’ve got it. I think I narrowed down the weak link because I can only deadlift 385 and when I do, I really feel my hams straining so they’re too weak. Also since you’re leaning so far forward at the bottom, that could indicate a weak lower back. Any thoughts? Heavy good mornings? More deadlifts?
Hey BigD…I will assume you’re referring to the difference between MY PL squat and Olympic squat numbers. I think that the main factor in the difference is that I was at my all time strongest on lower body movements at the time I did the PL squats. The 1 RM test on the Olympic squat was a couple of months ago…I am nowhere near my old strength levels. I would guess that I could have done a full squat with around 315 or a little more back when I was doing heavy PL squats…tough to guess since that bottom position is something you have to experience to understand the strength difference. I am very tall so the difference between going to top of thighs parallel and going “ass to grass” is probably about 12-14 inches…combine that with the fact that I have long femurs for a leverage disadvantage…the disparity in numbers is understandable. My lower back was probably my strongest bodypart at the time I was doing PL squats, but I really need to work it now…abs now need work too. I am currently working on Overhead squats (they’re a bitch!) and reverse deadlifts (read about them from John Casler on supertraining egroup) and my core strength is moving up quickly. I am also doing stiff leg DL’s again (gaining strength quickly on these too) so I will probably have a much higher max on the Olympic squat when I start focusing on it in a few months. BTW it does sound like you do need to bring up your DL in comparison to your squat. I can do SLDL’s with a lot more weight than I can do a full squat with (even at present strength levels 315 x 5 is easy). It is hard to say though…lever length and joint angles complicate everything. For example, my hamstrings are strong but probably need to be A LOT stronger to make up for my leverage disadvantage in the bottom of a squat. Good luck with your training, and keep posting I like discussing this stuff…it helps me to evaluate my approach.
two months continuous lifting, though I am active in sports. Before starting again I hadn’t lifted in 5 years (since soph. year in college) -
Ass to the floor - 1RM - 175
Squat to parallel - 175 - 3 sets of 8 - no 1RM ever attempted, I don’t have a spotter anymore
Female, 26 (in case that matters)
I had neglected legs in my training for 12 years. Yep…no squatting for 12 years. I started about 10 months ago again, and my current max is 440X1 at a BW of 198. Pretty lousy overall…but not bad for only 10 months. Oh yeh…that is 440 below parallel.
bjaffe,
Thanks for the remarks bud. I can relate with your progress. I’m 25 now at about 230 pounds and I mostly lift to keep up my athletic ability rather than just “get huge” (which was, at one time, a big goal for me. Hey, we all went through that stage, right?)
Anyway, I used to squat more powerlifting style back in high school. I think it’s a good idea to mix the two stlyes periodically, since both will help you in sports. A key I found is to make sure your lower back/abdominals are SUPER strong. I do almost all of my squatting without a belt right now, but I make sure to train the “core” like a madman. I think Bill Starr once said you could never have a lower back that’s too strong, and I’d agree with him. Especially for tall guys like us, since the weight wants to bend us in half!
Some of the great routines I've used came from Charles Poliquin's Max strength articles. I liked the "Patient Lifter's" routine and also the 1,6,1 routine and the "wave loading" stuff. If you don't have a copy of his new book on strength training, I'd encourage you to get it. He lists his top ten strength routines and the three I mentioned are in it. You might need to modify them a little to better suit your own needs, but the basic stuff applies.
Keep the reps under 6 for the most part. Rest intervals were between 3 and 5 minutes, but I did work hamstrings in between sets of squats to save time (like Charles recommends). I found a variety of tempos helped. In other words, for a few weeks I would go down slowly, then for a few weeks I would use a fast descent, but never bounce at the bottom.
I hope some of this helps. If you want more info. from me, just say so and I’ll try to help you out.
Keep up your hard work, bjaffe! You’ve done a great job so far.
Hey Nate…glad you replied. I don’t know if i’ll ever be 230…just not really built for it. Anyway, I looked through my old training journals from when I did the PL squats. That was way back in 1996. I think your right about using both styles of squat…I’ve thought about adding in PL squats to my routine…I think i’ll figure that in after I finish this phase I’m in now…I’ll keep you posted of my progress. I agree about the abs and back needing to be superstrong…if you read my last post I talked about the fact that I have lost a lot of strength in those areas. I had surgery for a double inguinal hernia in April of 2000 right when I was coming off of the 2 year lay off. My recovery was slow and I had pain for months (I’d like to stomp that surgeons ass). I’m finally trying to get back on track (I now have an 8 month old testosterone sucking demon to deal with too). I feel like things are going well now and I will be stronger than ever by the end of the summer. I’m considering competing in Masters(I just turned 30) Track and Field (decathlon) soon…if I get into the right shape.
Hey bjaffe, 12"? OUCH! I guess that’s why they say that the only way you can be a top level powerlifter over 6’ is if you weigh into the 400s. I’ve been doing very stupid lifting since grade 9 but last September I got to University and friends got me interested in periodization so I read up on poliquin…then the wheel kept rolling and now I’m here. When I started training with smarts, my max bench was barely 315, max squat was less than that. Now after 4 months, I’m at 365 on the bench, and 445 on the squat (granted I’ve just started training for heavy). It’s not that impressive at bw of 270 (I’ve got flab but I’m no fatass) but considering the delta and the time frame, I’m extremely happy! I get much stronger every week. For my body type, Dave Tate’s bench and squat techniques (Westside barbell techniques I should say) are the shit!!! I’m in love with floor presses! Trying box squat tomorrow.