It is entirely dependent on your goals.
A lifter with a long torso and short limbs has a big advantage over a lifter with a short torso and long limbs in the Olympic Lifts, Squat, and Bench Press. The latter athlete will probably be faster and has a significant reach advantage which is vital for success many sports.
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
In going along with the context of what defines one’s genetics as ‘good’: As a bodybuilder, I’ve always used the term to refer to the natural ‘look’ that someone is capable of achieving, assuming of course training and diet are on track. A good example that gets bandied about quite a bit is Jim Cordova. Yes, he trains damn hard, yes he pays insane attention to his diet and recovery, but the combination of small joints, a narrow waist, wide clavicles, and full, round muscle bellies, isn’t something you can train for.
While it should in no way diminish his achievements, it’s foolish for every gym rat who stumbles upon the weights to honestly believe that one day they will look EXACTLY like Jim, if they simply train hard enough.
Of course there’s the old point Mike Mentzer used to make about never knowing how good your genetics truly are until you’ve done everything correctly for a sufficient period of time.
S[/quote]
Agreed genetics are subjective. Randy Johnson probably had the worst genetics for bodybuiling ever. But for a pitcher - outstanding. We will never see a 6’7 Mr. Olyhmpia. We will never see a 5’0 Olympia champion. While there are many things you can control and overcome, some you just can’t.
[quote]Egg Head wrote:
From a bodybuilding and aesthetics standpoint a small skull/head size is a significant, and often overlooked, genetic asset. [/quote]
As silly as this may initially sound, you are indeed correct. People speak of the ‘illusion’ created by bodybuilders, and obviously anything that makes one’s physique appear ‘better’ (in this case, larger by comparison) is an asset. In Arnold’s original “Encyclopedia” he even mentions the rationale behind Robby Robinson cropping his hair into a much tighter cut and the resultant improvement in presentation.
S
Its ALL smoke and mirrors 
As I’ve said before, simply wear a cap turned sideways or crop your head/face out for “selfies”, and cut your hair super short or shave bald before getting on stage AND move your head back when looking down at the judges.
Sadly there’s always a smartass standing closer to the line than you are.
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
[quote]Egg Head wrote:
From a bodybuilding and aesthetics standpoint a small skull/head size is a significant, and often overlooked, genetic asset. [/quote]
As silly as this may initially sound, you are indeed correct. People speak of the ‘illusion’ created by bodybuilders, and obviously anything that makes one’s physique appear ‘better’ (in this case, larger by comparison) is an asset. In Arnold’s original “Encyclopedia” he even mentions the rationale behind Robby Robinson cropping his hair into a much tighter cut and the resultant improvement in presentation.
S
[/quote]
[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
Pretty good article from Contreras, citing a ton of studies that looked into different aspects of genetics and training. Doesn’t really mention Test specifically, but gets into some other hormonal/genetic markers:
[/quote]
Thanks for that article Chris. Was a really interesting read.
[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
Work ethic isn’t genetic.
[/quote]
This thought deserves consideration.
IMO…there is a genetic component to tolerating discomfort.
Bone structure (e.g. broad shoulders), height (if you’re over 6’2", then good luck).
RE things like intelligence, work ethic, etc–there’s a genetic component most probably, but the “nurture” aspect is certainly not to be gainsaid.
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
Work ethic isn’t genetic. [/quote]
This thought deserves consideration.
IMO…there is a genetic component to tolerating discomfort. [/quote]
Do you think so? I’d think that’s more a trainable aspect, at least up to a certain extent.
I meant it more as stick-to-it-ness, but I can kinda understand what you mean, if we take “work ethic” to include willpower or balls or guts or whatever we want to call it.
[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
Work ethic isn’t genetic. [/quote]
This thought deserves consideration.
IMO…there is a genetic component to tolerating discomfort. [/quote]
Do you think so? I’d think that’s more a trainable aspect, at least up to a certain extent.
I meant it more as stick-to-it-ness, but I can kinda understand what you mean, if we take “work ethic” to include willpower or balls or guts or whatever we want to call it.[/quote]
It took time for my neurology to figure out what it could do. When I first started, I felt like I was working really hard, and I was for a beginner. Now, almost 4 years later, I realize that I can work a lot harder than I thought. Relative based on experience. I suspect only people who have trained over a period of time see the other side of that spectrum, in terms of realizing what you are capable of.
About genetics -
I have narrow clavicles, high lat insertions, larger bones through the knee and ankle, and on the positive side no obesity in my family. I’m sure everyone could made a similar list. All of that aside, one the things that is so much fun is seeing progress from MY individual baseline.
For me, I TRY not to live my life in comparison to other people. It’s a recipe for unhappiness. Yes, some women have better genetics - Stu’s wife Cat was wider than me through the shoulder before she ever started lifting! It’s interesting, but irrelevant to my progress, or my satisfaction in seeing my own growth.
[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
Work ethic isn’t genetic. [/quote]
This thought deserves consideration.
IMO…there is a genetic component to tolerating discomfort. [/quote]
Do you think so? I’d think that’s more a trainable aspect, at least up to a certain extent.
I meant it more as stick-to-it-ness, but I can kinda understand what you mean, if we take “work ethic” to include willpower or balls or guts or whatever we want to call it.[/quote]
It has been my experience that some people just have an easier time ‘sticking to it’ than others. I suspect when everything else is eliminated, we would find those people have a genetic disposition to persevere. Perhaps there is a relationship to an individuals ‘fight or flight’ reaction.
[quote]Powerpuff wrote:
For me, I TRY not to live my life in comparison to other people. It’s a recipe for unhappiness.[/quote]
Amen!
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
Work ethic isn’t genetic. [/quote]
This thought deserves consideration.
IMO…there is a genetic component to tolerating discomfort. [/quote]
Do you think so? I’d think that’s more a trainable aspect, at least up to a certain extent.
I meant it more as stick-to-it-ness, but I can kinda understand what you mean, if we take “work ethic” to include willpower or balls or guts or whatever we want to call it.[/quote]
It has been my experience that some people just have an easier time ‘sticking to it’ than others. I suspect when everything else is eliminated, we would find those people have a genetic disposition to persevere. Perhaps there is a relationship to an individuals ‘fight or flight’ reaction.
[/quote]
And if you get down to the pure technical science of it, we are pre-determined and there is no such thing as a choice. But you really have to draw the line somewhere what you consider effort and what you consider a gift. And essentially calling effort a gift is a bit far IMO.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
Work ethic isn’t genetic. [/quote]
This thought deserves consideration.
IMO…there is a genetic component to tolerating discomfort. [/quote]
Do you think so? I’d think that’s more a trainable aspect, at least up to a certain extent.
I meant it more as stick-to-it-ness, but I can kinda understand what you mean, if we take “work ethic” to include willpower or balls or guts or whatever we want to call it.[/quote]
It has been my experience that some people just have an easier time ‘sticking to it’ than others. I suspect when everything else is eliminated, we would find those people have a genetic disposition to persevere. Perhaps there is a relationship to an individuals ‘fight or flight’ reaction.
[/quote]
And if you get down to the pure technical science of it, we are pre-determined and there is no such thing as a choice. But you really have to draw the line somewhere what you consider effort and what you consider a gift. And essentially calling effort a gift is a bit far IMO.[/quote]
Sort of like how some athletes have the “it factor”?
[quote]gregron wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
Work ethic isn’t genetic. [/quote]
This thought deserves consideration.
IMO…there is a genetic component to tolerating discomfort. [/quote]
Do you think so? I’d think that’s more a trainable aspect, at least up to a certain extent.
I meant it more as stick-to-it-ness, but I can kinda understand what you mean, if we take “work ethic” to include willpower or balls or guts or whatever we want to call it.[/quote]
It has been my experience that some people just have an easier time ‘sticking to it’ than others. I suspect when everything else is eliminated, we would find those people have a genetic disposition to persevere. Perhaps there is a relationship to an individuals ‘fight or flight’ reaction.
[/quote]
And if you get down to the pure technical science of it, we are pre-determined and there is no such thing as a choice. But you really have to draw the line somewhere what you consider effort and what you consider a gift. And essentially calling effort a gift is a bit far IMO.[/quote]
Sort of like how some athletes have the “it factor”?[/quote]
Yes
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
Work ethic isn’t genetic. [/quote]
This thought deserves consideration.
IMO…there is a genetic component to tolerating discomfort. [/quote]
Do you think so? I’d think that’s more a trainable aspect, at least up to a certain extent.
I meant it more as stick-to-it-ness, but I can kinda understand what you mean, if we take “work ethic” to include willpower or balls or guts or whatever we want to call it.[/quote]
It has been my experience that some people just have an easier time ‘sticking to it’ than others. I suspect when everything else is eliminated, we would find those people have a genetic disposition to persevere. Perhaps there is a relationship to an individuals ‘fight or flight’ reaction.
[/quote]
And if you get down to the pure technical science of it, we are pre-determined and there is no such thing as a choice. But you really have to draw the line somewhere what you consider effort and what you consider a gift. And essentially calling effort a gift is a bit far IMO.[/quote]
Point taken, and I agree to a degree. I’ll just say that having ‘crested the hill’; my views are a bit different than they were while I was climbing it.
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
Work ethic isn’t genetic. [/quote]
This thought deserves consideration.
IMO…there is a genetic component to tolerating discomfort. [/quote]
Do you think so? I’d think that’s more a trainable aspect, at least up to a certain extent.
I meant it more as stick-to-it-ness, but I can kinda understand what you mean, if we take “work ethic” to include willpower or balls or guts or whatever we want to call it.[/quote]
It has been my experience that some people just have an easier time ‘sticking to it’ than others. I suspect when everything else is eliminated, we would find those people have a genetic disposition to persevere. Perhaps there is a relationship to an individuals ‘fight or flight’ reaction.
[/quote]
And if you get down to the pure technical science of it, we are pre-determined and there is no such thing as a choice. But you really have to draw the line somewhere what you consider effort and what you consider a gift. And essentially calling effort a gift is a bit far IMO.[/quote]
Point taken, and I agree to a degree. I’ll just say that having ‘crested the hill’; my views are a bit different than they were while I was climbing it. [/quote]
Why is that?
I think good genetics when someone goes to the gym occasionally, doesn’t know what they’re doing but they’re big and relatively lean. There are people that just have that muscle thickness naturally and their muscles just pop. At a higher level you have people like Phil Heath whose muscles ALL pop and where everything is in balance and proportional.