The large majority of young American males are into BB… training for looks. It’s as simple as that. If this wasn’t so and OL was popular you can be sure we would be competitive in the world.
This is my take, simple though it may be.
As a competitive lifter – no not olympic, but powerlifting – I can tell you from my prospective from a local, national and even international level part of the problem is Drug use, but another part is money. These athletes fund there own training and travel to a certain level and the coaches do not make much. In other countries lifting is there jobs and life – not true here. Most if not all of our athletes also have jobs to work and training becomes secondary…unless their parents are supporting them. So I think that unless we are willing to fully support the athlete – this trend will continue!
Just my two cents – believe me my cc are all maxed out paying for travel, gear and supplements to make my World meets!
Malinda
[quote]kenmen wrote:
The large majority of young American males are into BB… training for looks. It’s as simple as that. If this wasn’t so and OL was popular you can be sure we would be competitive in the world.
This is my take, simple though it may be.[/quote]
I completly agree with you. Men should train to get strong not pretty
zosa, its funny, but this argument gets applied both ways, some say we dont have good lifters becasue all our guys were playing basketball and track and field or the girls were in soccer or gymnastics when they were young instead of concentrating totally on OL, others say we arent good becasue our guys and girls dont do enough of this type of thing and develope all around athletes. i can tell you with 100% surety that some of the european guys are great all around athletes, and some definately arent, and that some of our american athletes are great all around athletes, and some arent. i dont think th is is that big of an issue. one example, wes barnett, arguably the best OLer the US has ever produced, was “mr. basketball” in missourie in high school, and according to his coach probably could have won the olympic gold in the decathlon had he done that instead of OL, and pete kelley on the other hand didnt do much besides OL and didnt have any special ability to run or jump, but he has just recently broken wes’s american record in the snatch.
i maintain that having the right people in the sport is the problem. just one quick illistration from my own experience… i coached a guy that within 6 months or so of taking up OL had snatched 150kilos, cleaned 182.5kilos, and jerked 200kilos as a light 105k lifter. definately someone who could have been knocking on the door of american records quickly, and may have been able to compete and win on the world level in a few years. but he quit for a while to do strongman. now hes back, sort of, with diminished lifts, and probably not training in a manner that will allow him to realize his potential. im not knocking this guy, hes making the choices that suit him in life and doing what makes happy and training in a way that makes him happy… but i cant help but think that in another situation, in another country, choices would be more limited, things would be different, and he would end up being one of those “damned europeans” that lift so much and we just cant beat.
the society we live in, the affluence, the choices we all have, make it hard to find someone with this kind of talent who is willing to work hard for the long term, listen to coaching, etc, all for long enough to get to the top. there are just too many other things to distract a person.
there is really no “rich” capitalistic country that produces lots of world records in weightlifting… weightlifting is a very hard sport, and not really a spectator sport, so where money is the king, its not the most popular thing, and where the people are relatively rich and prosperous, not many will toil in anonymity for years to break the world record, especially when they could be doing something else.
glenn:
Very good post. Yeah, the Bulgarians definitely don’t have a lot of money… all of them driving around very small cars, etc. Comparatively, we’re fat and happy over here.
I’m sorry to hear about the lifter of yours who showed much potential.
I think most of us can understand why 99% of our excellent athletes choose football or other sports. I would do the same if I was a young highly talented guy.
[quote]glenn pendlay wrote:
one example, wes barnett, arguably the best OLer the US has ever produced
C’mon Glenn, don’t be silly. Wes never snatched over 400lbs. like Jeff Michaels did nor ever c&J over 500lbs. like Mark Cameron, nor ever totaled 400kgs or more. He was a great competitor on the international scene, but the greatest US lifter? No dice. Givin props to my old-school homies, peace.
kenmen, the road is littered with talent that was never realized, any OL coach can tell you that. of my own lifters, justin schlager snatched 130kilos after 3 months of training and made the national junior squad his first year, definately could have been great, but he went into business with his dad and is getting married, brett crossland powersnatched 130k and cleaned 182.5k and could have been GREAT but he busted his shoulder snow boarding and then got a full time job and probably wont be back, ive seen 56 and 62kilo lifters who could have broken the american records almost immedietly, doing national record liftes in high school football training, but they went and started smoking dope or something, etc, etc, etc. thats why i say its the athletes, we have them, but there is not enough reason for them to make the sacrifices to stay with the sport. i cant blame them. its the society we live in. and, i wouldnt trade it for a third world living standard just so we had better olympic lifters. just the way things are.
galvatron, wes was lighter than michaels, so would not have had to lift the same amount to be an equally good or better lifter. both michaels and cameron were awesome, ill grant you that.
i know others have lifted more than wes, and have better sinclair formulas. i also love the older lifters, from bednarski to curt white to michaels to martinez and respect them immensly for their achievements. tommy suggs was one of the people who taught me to coach and lift and he was a part of the old york gang and ive come to appreciate many of the old crowd thru him.
but, i also know that wes did his lifting under different conditions, namely that he was definately and 100% drug free his wh0le career… now i know that if you know a lot about all those old lifters you know that does not apply to them, and in truth, becasue of when they lifted, saying that doesnt even qualify as a knock or put down to them, its just the truth and to compare wes purely by numbers to cameron or michaels would be like comparing arcidi in powerlifting to the current top benchers purely by the numbers, and disregarding the current bench shirts available. sure, a couple of the new guys out bench arcidi by roughly 200lbs, but could they have beaten him on an even playing field, i dont know for sure but dont think so.
i dont think a drug free jeff michaels or mark cameron could have beaten wes barnett, and i think if wes had used drugs and lifted in the 70’s or early 80’s when it was pretty much accepted in in the USA, i think he would have beaten them both.
now having said that i want to say that it is purely my opinion, i think an educated opinion, but my opinion only regardless.
now one last thing, this probably has something to do with when i grew up, im 33, so wes was in his prime when i was the right age to be appreciative of his lifting. im betting that if i was a decade or two older id be on the other side of this argument. i love all lifting and admire all lifers, but i got started on OLing when wes was the man, and i have gotten to know him and consider him a friend, so its normal that he would be my favorite and id be a little biased towards him.
glenn…
That’s all great information… thanks for the posts.
firebug, what you say is partially true to the extent that the payments made to and the support given the foriegn lifters probably mean a lot more to them than anything we give to americans, just because of the society they live in and what is available there… but it is not true that weightlifting is not supported in this country. we probably do as well a job as anywhere except china in supporting our best lifters. there are about 15 lifters who live at the olympic training center in colorado springs who have EVERYTHING paid for, food, housing, medical care, everything, they basically get paid to train. we also have anoher program in northern michigan with the same setup, except those 8 lifters also get a full college scholarship on top of room and board costs, as well as many other perks, even in programs such as the one i run where the athletes have to provide their own money for food and housing we pay their way to meets, have free training facilities, free massage, free recovery methods such as ice baths, etc, etc… so basically if you are a good weightlifter, you get a lot of support in this country, and if you are in the top 20 or so you can get totally supported and have to worry about nothing but training, and if you make certain totals you get monthly checks on top of all the other, and if you break records you get even more… so its not like we dont support weightlifting.
i think the difference is this… in the USA, if you give a person free room and board, pay all their expenses, its great, but not the same as if you are doing it in bulgaria. the american kid doesnt really need it. many have moved out of the training center in colorado just becasue they didnt like it there or got homesick. they dont really need to train their asses off for a college scholarship… they can get grants or loans or mom and dad can pay for it if they dont want to continue weightlifting. they dont really NEED free room and board, they have their own money or mom and dads money if they need it.
so overall its a good deal if you get it, but its nothing life changing or no opportunity they otherwise wouldnt have.
now dont get me wrong, im not saying that all the guys in weightlifting are spoiled bratts, far from it. most or all work their asses off and train hard and take full advantage of the help. im just saying that the presence of this support isnt as instrumental in recruiting lifters and retaining lifters as it would be in a society where you are living in a shack with 12 other people eating fish heads and rice unless you get out thru your talent in weightlifting.
i was told by the nigerian coach a few years back that most of their lifters literally came off the street, had no home and no food and no life whatsoever, and were willing to bust ass for 4 or 5 hours a day just for 3 square meals a day and were glad to do it. those guys would break themselves in half for a middle class standard of living. im glad we dont have that situation in the USA… but when life is easy and the rewards in sports are measured in the millions for multi-year contracts, a free college education or free room and board arent the best motivator.
glenn:
That’s interesting stuff.
I wonder, will we ever have a man medal again in the Olympics… say within the next 12 years? Man, it just doesn’t seem like we are close.
kenman, i think we will. im optimistic about the future. i think we have good people at the head of usa weightlifting, i think dennis snethen and wes barnett are doing a good job and moving things in the right direction… they are doing a lot of things that will help with grass roots recruitment, some are apparant now and some wont be for a couple more years, but things are getting done.
our weak point is, i think, recruitment… and i think this is because weightlifting offers few benefits till you are at the elite level, and their arent many spots open for elite athletes to train full time in a supported environment… the low chances of making it to one of these spots discourages kids who are just starting out. we have to have more “professional weightlifters” like the ones at the national training center, and this is being addressed with the program at northern michigan and the possible expansion of that program or the development of other s like it. we also need somewhere for our more intermediate lifters to go and continue training till they get to that level, and i think this is being addressed by the expansion of collegiate programs across the country, programs like the one at northern florida, LSU shreveport, midwestern state in texas, and others.
of course you have to get a lot of kids into the sport in the first place to find those who will continue and reach a high level of performance… and i think this is getting done. look at the expansion of schoolage nationals over the past few years… a few years ago there were maybe 100 lifters who qualified for schoolage nationals, now we have 350+ qualifying, and one of the fastest growing age groups is those under 13 years of age, the guys and girls who will be at their peak in 2012 or 2016…
so we are definately broadening our base of kids in the sport, we are developing more community olympic development programs and regional development centers and collegiate programs which will help keep these kids in the sport and allow them to train and try and achieve high levels, and we are raising our number of spots for high performers who can be treated as true professionals and train full time with government financial support. i think all this will add up to better performances from the US in the future.