Dubs- ART and self treatment your doing is probably the only cure for your problem. Make sure after treatments that you Ice the area and give it time to recover before you beat it up again.
Have some type of cushin down when box squatting. A towel a tee shirt something to soften the landing a bit.
The skinnier you are the more padding you’ll probably need. Also don’t crash down onto the box.
The only other thing I can think of is try using something like pull throughs and pulldown abs right after your box squats. This may help losen up the area.
Okay just got a couple of questions regarding westsides recomendations for adding chains etc for bench and squat on dynamic effort exercises… There seem to be some discrepancy regarding how much weight should be added to the bar…
Recomendations from the 8 Keys Part 3
Max Bench Weight of chain
< 300 50-60
300-500 80-90
500+ 120-130
Recomendations from Accomodating Resistance Article
Max Bench Weight of chain
100-200 20
300-400 40
400-500 60
500-600 80
600-700 100
Recomendations from 8 keys
Max Squat Weight of chain
200-400 60
400-500 80
500-600 100
600-800 120
800-900 160
recomendations from accom resist art.
Max Squat Weight of chain
200-400 40
400-500 60
500-600 80
700-800 100
800-900 120
Okay so until now i have been using the recomendations from the accomodating
resistance article. The numbers for the weight fo chains added provided there are significantly lighter then in the 8 keys article.
Which numbers are the ones to go with???
Which numbers do you use?
Now I hesitated at writing this as often i pick up on shit little things and get accused of being pedantic… but the number discrepancy really is quite large. A 350 lb pound bencher
would be using 80lbs if they used 8 keys part 3 article or only half that if they used the accomodating resistance article!
If you want to increase your full ‘olympic’ squat rather then a powerlifting style squat I imagine you would still use wide stance box squats… but how much… would they still be you main dynamic exercise?
Steve - the gym I am currently at I have to use a bench for my box. It is an inch or two ABOVE parallel. However, at my last gym (just a few mos ago) it was an inch or two BELOW. I have had the problem for a few years, even when I had not heard of boxsquats and was doing regular squats. Thanks for considering my post as I want to squat w/out this recovery hinderance!
When i do my close stance box squat it is very close to a olympic squat. Im pretty sure i could olympic squat at least 405 and probably more. I did 425 with the manta ray on close stance low box squats. Louie says to train wide even if you want a record with a close stance.
Let me try to field a few of these questions. Jackass, feel free to correct me if I am mistaken about some of my info here…
Chris: Westside is constantly evolving. The recommendations from the latest articles most likely reflect the current protocols Westside has been having success with. From what I hear from Paul Childress (who I am lucky enough to train with), Louie has been doing a lot of testing with the Tendo Unit (measures force output, I believe), and they are finding that a lot less weight is needed to reach maximal force output on DE days. As such, I am betting that a lot of the Westsiders are dropping their DE weights, or at least a lot of the chain weight, and still having success. You must also keep in mind that the recommendations for DE day weights/percentages are only guidelines, and that keeping your speed up is the real key to success here. Bottom line: Start with the recommendations from the “Eight Keys” and adjust from there. The only real way to know if you have the right weight is to get a good coach who knows his stuff and have him watch you.
On Olympic Squats: I will have to defer to one of the Oly lifting experts on this one. I love the Westside template for damn near any type of sport training, but I have not researched much about what exact modifications might be made for an Oly lifter. I would assume you would still get a great carryover from doing box squats, but you would obviously not be honing the technical aspects of the lift as much if all you were doing was wide-stance box squats.
Dubs: I’m not sure where to go from here, man. I had a hunch that your box was a bit too low, but it appears that I was wrong. One thing I can offer is that you may just need to “bring up” your glute-ham tie in. Increasing the work capacity for these muscles may be your key. Check the “Eight Keys” articles as well as some of Dave’s previous T-Mag articles on ideas about how to strengthen this area. Get yourself a sled, too.
So for clarification: a oly squat is just a regular close stance “ass to calves” bb’er type squat right? (whereas a powerlifter squat is wider and only to parallel)
Greek- Yes you are correct, a olympic squat is a ass to the grass squat
Chris- I would think there would need to be some level of specificity on dynamic exercises since it primarily trains the CNS. I would suggest using the Olympic Squat or maybe as Goldberg mentioned close stance low box squats. The beauty of Westside is you can change it too meet your demands, If you want to increase your oly squat more so than a power lifting squat you could always also add Full Back/Front/Zercher squats into max effort rotation along with Box squats, good mornings, etc.
Well, it definately seems the two don’t mix. This has been debated between BBers and PLers alike for years.
You can squat more going only to parallel and with a wider stance. but with Olys you get a full range of motion albeit with a closer stance.
That’s why Westside uses the box. They really on sqaut to that level anyways, rarely ever going full (ass to the grass)
How would one apply the Westside protcols to Oly squats? (if you could) I don’t think there is enough carryover between a box squat and a full oly squat.
I wanted to follow up my last post about difficulty w/ my hams after boxsquats. My chiro, who does ART, told me it is really mostly my adductor muscles that come into the same insertion point that are giving me problems. (adduct? the inside of your leg, right?) He said there is a little adhesion of the hams, but mostly the adductor. Does anybody have thoughts on this? Thanks.
Steve … yah my bad about the close grip bench post. I just put up my hands where I would close grip, and I wouldn’t scrap my obliques. Like you said … about 45-60 degrees is about right for me too.
How would one apply the Westside protcols to Full Oly squats? (if you could) (I don’t think there is enough carryover between a box squat and a full oly squat. )
Steve, I was reading your latest ME squat/dl day today, and I had a quick question … what are deadlifts off of boards ? Is a deadlift off 1 board easier than 4 boards ? I didn’t understand that because you mentioned your people where you train at said that your dl should be over 600 if you did 500 off of 4 boards.
Also, I wish I could get my bench progression as much as my squat/dead lift too. Seems as of right now … board presses, and pin presses are all stuck at 315 and won’t go up. been stuck there for about 3-4 weeks if I remember correctly. I’ve started incorporating tate presses, and incline tates. Other than that … I can’t really tell right now what my weak point is. my tris, delts, or upper back. I’m a firm believer that my technique is good, so I’m comfortable to rule that out.