I would think more lat strength because my speed is very good. ive timed myself on video and i get three reps at 55% plus 1 set of chains in 2.45 seconds. so it must be lat strength. I think it must be better lat strength in the horizontal plane because i can do pullups and chinups like a champ.
Ryno-thats what i did for a few weeks. I think thats one of the main reasons my deadlift went up. I would drag a heavy weight for a couple of trips lighten the load, then drag somemore. I also noticed less soreness the next day when i did this. I would usually do it about six hours after my max effort workout. You could also put the heavy dragging at the end of your workout.
6-8 hours after a main lower body session and 100 ft drags are normally the general rules, I believe. Doing it a few hours after a ME squat workout should be fine. Just keep adding weight every trip, 45?s and 25?s should do the trick. Just remember to rotate through different drags every few weeks. Are you using the Westside sled or a tire?
Cool, thanks guys.
I made a sled out of a piece of plywood with a short length of pipe coming out from the top. The olympic plates fit perfectly. I’d think it works just as well as the one from elite. But it only cost me about $2.
Okay, longer warm-ups it is. (Oh, the pain, the pain of being seen using just the bar… 
)
Another question, since there’s been some recent discussion on grips: I used Close-grip Bench Press for my ME exercise yesterday. While I’ve done a fair amount of close grip work in the past, none of it was for max attempts (or anything close to that). I was surprised to discover that I got some forearm pain (the worrying kind) at the bottom of the movement when I started getting up in weight. So I’m thinking that maybe my close grip is a little too close.
I spaced my hands by gripping the bar with both thumbs extended, the tips of the thumbs touching. I’d say that this gives me about 15 or 16cm (about 6 inches, for the metric-impaired) between my hands. But I have no idea whether this is what the powerlifting world (or Westside) uses. Is there a generally accepted standard for what constitutes a “close” grip? Or is it just “as close as you can get without wrist pain”?
Thanks!
I rarely drag the sled heavy, but if I did, I would probably do it in the course of a normal training session (in place of a max effort movement, or as an accessory movement)) on ME or DE squat days.
I found out rather quickly awhile back that dragging heavy on off days simply overtrained me. Even when using the 60% rule, my recovery, and subsequently my workouts, would suffer.
One thing that the guys at Elitefts are constantly telling beginners (not saying you are a beginner ryno) is that too much too fast is a recipe for overtraining, yet people always want to go nuts with the extra workouts when they first begin Westside (I know I did). Bust your ass in the four main sessions for awhile, and then slowly begin adding in “extra” sessions if you can handle them.
Ryno,
How did you make the harness for your sled?
chardawg-i would say that your grip is too close. i go about 12-14 inches on my close grip. And dont be afraid to use the bar. I do at least two sets with just the bar during every warmup session. Who cares about your ego in the gym, worry about your ego at the meet(if you compete).
No, I feel ya on that Steve. You are right though – I am a beginner to WS. I’m not going too crazy on the extra workouts yet… no extra band work or anything. I only do light sled dragging for about 10 mins maybe 2 days a week…
I feel like I’m in pretty good shape though because I’ve been grappling pretty consistently for a while now. And that is some GPP for ya. I was just curious as to what others thought about heavy sled dragging mostly. Maybe I’ll just take a couple runs at the end of my ME session next week and see how that goes.
Doogie, I don’t exactly have a harness like for pulling cars and stuff like that. I just attach it to a weight belt, or hold onto the ropes behind my knees and bend over. If you want a picture of what I have… PM me (not that its anything fancy or anything…)
Char: What we consider close-grip in my close group of PLers is having the thumb about 1/2" to 1" away (away meaning towards the weights on each end) from the smooth part of the bar. That is A LOT wider of a grip than you were taking.
Quick note here: I have not once had any part of my hand touching the smooth part of the bar while training Westside.
This doesn’t mean it is “wrong” to do so, but I have yet to see any other experienced Westside trainer do so either.
Okay, I’ll widen my grip. I know that Poliquin uses 14" for his close-grip stuff, but I wasn’t sure what it was in the PL world.
Anyway, I’ll widen it out to just outside the smooth part of the bar and see how that goes. I imagine that’ll alleviate the forearm pain.
So, let’s see… In that case, when you’re doing your dynamic benching, and you use the three grips (wide, medium and narrow)… Is the narrow grip the same hand spacing as your close-grip work? Or is the close-grip stuff closer?
char, for close grip, simply tuck your elbows to your side, and then raise your hands up to the bar. That is the grip you want to use. You want your elbows to be grazing your oblique area.
Yah, I found out pretty quick my work capacity, so I went off the GPP work during my first phase because I simply wasn’t getting the full effect of the main workouts anymore. Now I’m gradually adding it in.
btw, what is the range of tension weight at the top of the squat using green bands (assuming the setup was good)?
Also, westside forum category anyone ? 
Char,
The three grips I use are a close grip, thumbs @ the edge of the knurling as described, wide grip with pinky just inside the power ring, and a grip somewhere in the middle of those two.
Ok im a total vigin to Westside but have been looking into it and would love to give it a go.
so hear are my virgin questions:
1)what is the minimum equipment you need to use WS protocol? so far all i can really use is a squat rack, barbell and 1 box of (luckily) parelell height (no shirt,bands, chains, GHR mach, rev hyper, boards, power rack etc) of course this in time can change!
2) should i jump straight in to heavy stuff or ease into it. I am finishing OVT at the moment and am well under any of my previous best lifts (about 80%)
3)how important is a spotter on dynamic days. i train with someone else 2 days of the week , so ideally this would be ME days right?
4)how important is diet on this type of protocol? im basically gonna eat everthing and probably get fat (it winter were i live so it doesnt count!) go for about 12lbs in the next 3-4 weeks.
I’m reading up at elite’s website which is gold, but there is so much stuff to read, which i dont think all of it will totally sink in till i’m under the bar.
any pointers would be great
- You don’t need all of the equipment when you start. You’ll be fine with what you have. I’m sure you can come up with a few pieces of 2x6 though to do some board presses. I bought the bands/chains but I still haven’t really used them yet.
One thing though… the Minis are good for putting around your wrists when you do DE benches to teach you to pull the bar apart. I also use them for standing ab pulldowns, and natural GHR’s. But again, I’m sure you can do just fine with out them.
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Dave Tate has a whole beginners program laid out on Elite. Check how he works that. My first couple weeks, I worked up to 3RM on the ME days… now I’m going for 1RM.
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Yeah, sometimes people like to work up after their DE sets to heavier weights… but this isn’t necessary. So yeah, I’d say use the spotter on ME days.
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As important as you want it to be, I guess. Make sure you’re getting your protein, and I’m sure you’ll be fine. I’ve read your posts… I’m sure you know what you have to do.
I just re-read the part about putting a mini around your wrists when doing DE bench day. Whats the reason for pulling the barbell apart ? The articles state it works the triceps better, but I’m simply curious why.
Landon
Just wanted to chime in and say “great shit!” I’ve been following this thread for days in anticipation of giving Westside a go this fall once my shoulder is healthy (knock on wood). Cop-zilla convinced me:)
Keep it coming, fellas.
- Don?t worry about all that other stuff yet. Wait on chains and bands they are not for a beginners as they are stressful on the joint and it is better to learn Westside without them (I am waiting until I have a better foundation of strength to start using them myself that is just me).
here is an article on things to start up with
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I agree with ryno about the Dave Tate start off program
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I train without a partner and honestly it is HUGE limiting factor, when I work up on dynamic bench every couple weeks it gets scary when I have to ask someone I don?t know or trust to spot me. But a spotter will definitely come in more use on a max effort day.
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Really depends on you, It seems a few of the Westside lifters enjoy a couple trips to Micky D?s during the week while others do watch what they eat. If you are looking to gain some mass I highly recommend Massive eating with Westside, I Gained nearly 40 pounds (mostly lean and mostly in my legs) doing that last year.
great thread char.
iv been readin the 8 keys and iv been waiting for all 4 parts before starting a PL prog.
but give urself a pat on the back im starting 2morro. just gonna pick out the stuff i can use for now and wait and c wot happens.
just wondering if anyone knows this.
why does west side only focus on bench and squat. by focus i mean ME and DE days but nothing for deadlifts.
ALLY
This raises the topic of the dreaded anterior pelvic tilt. I have this problem and can’t seem to get rid of it. All the stretching in the world has only made a minimal difference. I always make sure and put all my weight on my heels and sit back as far as possible. It would just make sense that someone with my physique would not be able to do this.