Westside Questions!

Training Bodybuilding
261

Thanks again. I did arched-back good mornings yesterday for the first time in my life. I only worked up to 225 for 3. When I left the gym, my lower back was tired but I didn’t feel like I had hit my legs at all. Today I can’t fucking walk. My hamstrings have never been this sore. I have a homemade sled. Any recommendations on what to do to relieve the pain?

Also, I did dynamic bench today. Is there a particular article at the elitefts site that goes in depth on these. I know that if you come up off the bench you’re wrong, but it was hard not to. I need to figure these out. Thanks.

262

doogie- For recovery what I would recomend is 10 minutes of foward sled draging (non stop) incorperating the 60% rule. Followed by 2-3 minutes of pulldown abs then 3x33 light band gm’s.

With your dynamic bench work out I just think you need some technique work. It sounds like your stroke is too long and that is why you are flying off the bench. STAY TIGHT AND DRIVE YOUR UPER BACK AND TRAPS INTO THE BENCH… Also work on leg drive try pushing your heels into the ground.
Godd luck Big Martin

263

Couldn’t one of you guys who is computer literate offer to better organize the Elitefts site. The layout makes no sense to me. At a minimum the damn thing could use a search engine to search the articles.

264

I don’t want to sound like Squat1000, but could someone explain the purpose of the workout gear–suits, shirts, singlets, briefs, blah, blah, blah. If you lift it with all of that stuff, do you still feel like YOU lifted it? Where do you draw the line between raw and just driving a forklift up to the rack to pick up the weight?

I guess I can understand that as long as the rules allow it, you take it as far as you can. What I don’t get is the sense of accomplishment. If you bench 400 raw and 430 with the suit, are you equally proud of both lifts or do you see one as being better than the other?

265

Im definitely equally proud of both. Actually i dont take a max raw ever. Think about it this way. Nobody ever says to a college baseball player that his homeruns dont count because it was with an aluminum bat instead of a wood bat. Nobody says to a tennis player thats using a composite racket that his serves arent really fast because hes not using a wood racket. do i feel proud if i lift a weight with equipment? Hell yeah i do. You know why? Because if even you removed all the equipment from lifting, the strongest would still be the strongest. Also equipment does alot to reduce injuries. My single ply z suit has been a life saver for my hips. The only people who have trouble with equipment are those that dont use it or cant get alot out of it.

266

The injury prevention benefits make a lot of sense. Thanks for not getting defensive.

267

The way I think of equipment is that it is part of the game and to get the most out of the game you got to learn to use it. It isnt like you just put on a bench shirt and bingo you bench 100 more pounds it takes years to learn how to perfect the gear.

good luck big martin

268

Doogie- equipment takes years to learn to use properly. It isnt like you put on a bench shirt and bingo you bench 500 pounds. Learning to use gear is what makes this sport great in my opinion.

269

Yet another question:
because of all the Goodmornings and little actual (ME) squatting in the program i got from elite, how do i go about testing on “test day” or is any ME squat day as good as a test day?
Is there a way of warming up for your big lift? I just dont want to exhuast myself with too many warm ups.
I say this because i stopped without hitting (what i think was) a Max box squat last week. I was stoked with the poundages, as it had dramatically improved but didnt know how many more sets i could go on for as i had already done about 6-7 single rep sets, and the last 3 i thought would be maxes.
Is there a guess of what you can squat based on a paralell GM?
also how long does it take to become able to do concentric GHR’s with someone holding legs down?
damn these are hard (especially after GM’s!)

270

The only way to get a max is to take a max.just keep going until you miss. If it was easy dont go up five lbs. take a little bit of a bigger jump. dont be scared.

271

Hey goldberg and rest
how do you take a westside approach to getting to a specific weight for a meet while keeping strength/speed? Im talking training regimen includin GPP/aerobics and changes to regular west-side for that period.

thanks
S-man.

272

Glute-Spanker- I am assuming your are talking about setting a goal weight in a certain time frame. example- You want a 700 squat by October and curently you squat 600… It will be tuff!!
Louie Simmons says that if you are interseted in creating strength speed you neeed to train with %'s from 55-70 in a cycle while hitting your max effort work real hard. Now this would be diffirent for a elite lifter who would be using a circa-max phase for example. I am currently where you are I would say im not elite but trying to get there so cicra max phases and stuff like that are stupid for me to use. Currently I am loking to compete in October (maybe a little later) and my ultimate goal is a 700 squat that is going to be tuff for me cause my best squat in competition is at 600 and that was early last winter. What I am doing is doing my gpp in my warmups (check Jim Wendlers training logs) and doing 3 exerscies in my work outs. This was recomended to me by the efs staff.
My main goal in the squat is to create strength speed just like you. Curently I am using a 4 week dynamic squat cyle. and a 5 week dynamic bench cycle. I am using about 10 max effort movemets for the squat and 5 or so for the bench. My dynamic cylces are as follows…
Squat week 1 and 2 heavy band tension -40% wich i am using between 225-275 plus a green and a purple band.
Week 3 straight weight 15x2 plus 2 singles. I do 315x10x2 and 405x5x2 then I take a couple singles at about 90%.
Week 4- I do conditioning work with the saftey squat bar 20x2 between 225-275 and only 15 seconds rest.

Bench cycle
Week 1-3 a mini band plus 135 x8x2
weeks 4-5 straight weight 155x8x2 I also do shirt work on week 5.

My max effort work for the squat I am doing …

Warm ups gpp - 5x20 pull down abs, 5x10 pull throughs, 30 seconds burpes 3x30 seconds, 3x 10 push ups, 6 sled trips
then I am cycling these max effort exerscice’s
The goodmorning-squat for a max single (its my favotie),
Rounded and arched back gms for max single or max 3’s
saftey squat bar 12 inch box squats for max singles
manta ray 10 inch box squats for max singles
manta ray high 17 inch box squats for max singles
camberd bar box squat parallel wide stance singles
canberd bar gm’s rounded back for triples
sumo or regualr deadlifts of boxes
max singles
sumo dead lifts for a max single

For accessory’s I like to do rack pulls for 5x5 or for triples.
Romanian deadlifts of boxes for 5x5
stiff legs of boxes 5x5
snatch grips deadlifts 5x5
pull throughs 3x8
tire flips 3x10 (my favorite)
Med ball toss x 10 minutes with 40 pound med ball
also on dynaic squat day I pull for speed any where between 6-20 singles between 30-70% with 30 seconds rest

after one of those I usually leave the gym and go inside my house and eat lol. Every once in a while ill do some lat pull down and some more abs.

For bench my max effort looks like this

warm up gpp- face pulls 10 x10 light really trying to bring up my upper back… lat pull downs 3x10, dumbell bench very light 2-3x10 , some front raises very light 3x33, sled 6 trips.
Cycling these exerscices for max effort work.
1-2-3-4 board presses for max singles or triples
Reverse band press with blue or green band for max single.
steep close grip declines for max singles
floor press rarely. I fell I get no carry over from this every one is diffrent. I acctually like to do this when I fell beat up for 5x5 with chains.

after these It usually depends on if I did a full range or lock out movement.
If I did a full range movement I will usually do 4-5-6 board presses for 3x3 or 5x5. Sometimes lock outs…dont like these either they beat my joints up.
If I do a lock out movement Like 4 board presses. Ill Do a full range movemet like steeps decline for 5x5 or 3x3 or incline press for 3x10, or some dumbell work for any where from 5-6 sets of 5-20 reps.
After this I do mainly band push downs for 100 reps or dumbell floor press or extensions for 6x10… then I go inside and eat…If i have some energy left Ill do some upper bacc work.

Curently I am not doing any extra work outs except if you count swimming (sitting in a pool lol) and fucking…On days I do not train I eat a lot and rest it has worked for me. I have tried the extra work outs and they just beat me up…
A couple notes- I am drug free.
I never use bands on max effort days I am not ready for that.
I follow no diet except the see-food diet.
I take a multi-vitamin and cell tech.
I am a poor broke college student.
and I sleep a lot.
Oh yea I hope to have a 500 bench by may of next year…
Hope this helps Big martin

273

actualy this helped alot…
how much of the accesory work are you doing… all of them?
thats alot do you add more workouts?

and my origina question was about bodyweight goal but it was very nice to see your whole plan.
my original question
lets say I compete in a division where I cant weigh more then 175, Im 180+ now. how do you go about getting to the desired weight while keeping strength and speed?
btw my numbers pre these cycle (started 20 days ago)
400 squat
350 DL
270 bench and going up
all raw.

thanks

274

You just diet normally. You might have to cut back on training some but you just have to know your body. If you weigh around 180 and you need to weigh 175, you can lose that in water in a couple of days. then rehydrate after you weigh in. be sure to read all of the articles over at elite. and read their questions and answers everyday. thats where i learn most of what i know.

275

Glute-spanker- Goldberg has the weight question awnswerd perfectly (follow his advice )also J.M Blakely has a good book on this subject) …I just weigh myself everyday If i notice my weight is going down Ill eat more and take a couple servings of cell-tech during the day. If i am over weight ill add in more gpp and sled dragging and eat less junk. My weight moves a lot I compete in the 242’ sometimes i weigh 250 sometimes if it has been hot out side I may weigh 235 who knows…

About the asseccory work, I pick one of the exerscices I listed and do that as my only asseccory for that day.

Example todays max effort squat day july 21’st

Warmup gpp
5x20 pulldowns abs
5x10 pull throughs
3x10 push ups
6 sled trips
main work out
max eff movement- Good morning squats to a max single.
asseccory- Tire flips 400 pound tire 3x10
Then me and my brother sat around and talked and every few minutes I did some lat pull downs for 20 reps Real light it think I did like 6 sets.

Then I went inside and ate…
Hope this helps because the main reason for my post was too show you guys I dont do that much just some gpp warmups then a major movment then a asseccory for 5 hard and heavy sets, then I eat a shit load of grub…Big martin

276

is the accesory work enough volume to, lets say, hit my triceps?
my ME bench goes like:
5 singles of bench
rows supersetted with dips 5-10 sets of 6 each
or
chinups supersetted with DB extensions 5 sets of 6 reps.
(I do this workout once every 3-4 days.)

should I throw in another triceps movement like JM press or something?

BTW in my DE day Im resting my triceps but working my calf rotator (weak link for me)- good/bad?

thanks - S-man

277

Glute-Spanker- Let me see how you are stting you work outs up??? Are you using the traditional mon-max eff squat and dead, wensday - max eff bech, fri-dynamic squat and deadlift, sun- dynamic bench?? By looking at what you just posted What I would do is this…

I am supposing this was your max effort bench day?
Gpp-warmup- I would do dumbell bench 3x20 light, dubell rows 3x8 super set with push ups 3x10 (easy), pull ups 3x6 super set with push ups 3x10 easy.

Max effort movement-choose what ever you want

Asseccorys- Dips 3x10, extensions 3x10
you dont want to go over 60 reps for the triceps.
Thats what I would do, this way you are getting in shape,adding mass, and most important getting stronger.

Also I would not drop the tricep work on dynamic bench day this is the day I hit my triceps the hardest with a meduim-low rep strength and mass building exerscice. I would do high board presses 4-5-6 or high pin lock outs for 5x5 or 3x3. After that I would’nt do any more tri’s or you could do some light band push down’s or high rep extensions.

Let me know a little more about what you are doing??? Your max effort movements for squat and bench, your rep scheme for dynamic days, also what are you favorite asseccory exerscices. Also what are your goals and ill try my best to help…Big martin

278

Glute-Spanker
I am going to make this simple my I reread my post and it could have confused some, I do a gpp warmup takes 10 minutes, then I do my daily movement (max effort or dynaic), then I do one asseccory from the list in my post.

Here is exactly what i did last week…each work out I hope this clears what I do In my training sessions up.

Monday max effort squat
Gpp warmup- Pull down abs 5x10, pull thoughs 3x20, push ups superseted with lat pulldowns 3x10, 8 sled trips

max effort movement- High box 17 inch manta ray sqauts for a max single

asseccory- pull thoughs 6x8 super seted with 6 sled trips 3 plates 50 yards

Wensday max effort bench Day-
Gpp warm up- 10x10 light face pulls, dumbell bench 3x10 ultra light, 3x10 lat pull powns, 3x33 ultra light front raises

max effort movement- Reverse blue band press for a max single

assccory- Dumbell floor presses 6x10
dumbell shrugs 5x10

Friday dynamic squat day-
gpp-warmups pulldown abs 5x10, pull throughs 5x10, log press 3x20, dumbell row 3x8
15x2 dynamic squats straight weight

Speed pulls 10x1 50%

Sunday dynamic bench-
Gpp warmup lat pull downs 6x10, front raises 3x10, push ups 3x10, burpes 3x30 second sets

dynamic bench 3x8-155 straight weight

worked up to a heavy triple on 1 board, then did the same weight for 3 off 3 boards then did it 10 times off 5 boards.

then did 3x33 band push downs purple
and 3x10 pull down to the belly

few notes-
I reast hardely no time at all during my gpp warmups…
I do a lot of volume using some 5’s and 3’s on max effort days as I work my way up to a max single, this brings up work capacity and helps to add muscle, but this takes some time to be able to do work capacity has to be brought up over time…
My work outs are a lot like Jim Wendlers on elite fitness i suggest you guys check out his training log on the site… and also read his new articles called “beginer mistakes” there are 3 of them …
good luck Big martin

279

I just want to reiterate that the basic template provided by dave tate covers many of these questions pretty well. After dynamic bench, pick a tricep movement, then a lat movement, then a delt movement. same thing after max effort exercise. I usually go heavier sets of 3-5 on dynamic day on pressing movements and lighter on max effort days with extension type movements. not trying to be a dick or anything, but the basic template is just that. follow that until you get a really good grasp of the program.

280

I guess my post didn’t go through…

Too add a different perspective? I feel(my opinion) that the beginner shouldn?t get caught up in doing GPP before he actually does the main workout? I think Jim(from elitefits) touched on this saying something like everyone jumps on the bandwagon of everything new that comes out of Westside?

I also think too many people focus just on the lockout, you see all this talk about triceps, triceps, triceps and while they are important to the bencher, unless your wearing a denim, you shouldn?t do just ?lockout? movements?my little bro had to learn this the hard way at his meet this week? I?ve chatted with Glen B(642??bp @242) about a lot of the methods that he uses(I think he has a video out???) and I think he hit the nail on the head pretty much? but to give you an idea of how we set out bp workouts up?. Maybe give you some ideas??? For your training… but here it is?.

ME Movements

2 Board Press with Chain
Combo Chain/Band Close Grip Press
Reverse Band Presses (green or blue) with Chain
Various Dumbbell Presses to Failure
Cambered Bar Bench off 2 Board
Floor Presses with Chains

Shoulder work ((1 movement 1-2 x per week))

Strict Front Press or Push Press ((all standing)) or seated dumbbells

Tricep Work ((1-2 movements per workout (usually 2 when shoulders are not done…))

5 Board Press- working up to 3-5RM
Beeker Boards- 3 x 10 (alternate raw/4-5board)
Tricep Death- 0 thru 5 board ? 2 x 5 each board (1st set light, 2nd set heavy)
Mini Band Tricep Death ? 0-1-2-1-0 Boards ? 2 x 5 each board (1st set light, 2nd set heavy)
Reverse Cambered Bar - working up to 3-5RM
Push-Ups with bands, chains, suspended, feet jacked up, added weight
? Benches with band around back- working up to 3-5RM
Dumbbell Floor Presses- working up to 3-5RM
Various Tricep Extensions 6-8 x 8 reps (same weight all sets)

Back Work 4-6 sets ((1-2 movements per workout))

Static Band Holds (rev band set up or seated row set up )
Seated Rows
Chest supported Rows
Pull-ups
Power Clean from floor ? hang ? blocks

So a example workout for us would look something like?.

Cambered Press off 2 boards to 1RM
Strict Front Press- 3 x 3
Reverse Cambered Bar (close grip) working up to a heavy 5 reps
Suspended Pushups (1 total set)

  • bwt 5 reps
  • add 1 chain 5 reps
  • add 1 chain 5 reps
  • remove 1 chain 5 reps
  • bwt 5 reps
    Static Pink Seated Rows- 2 x 1minute each
    Power Cleans 3 x 3
    done in about 35minutes

Hell of a lot of volume, but I feel the ?volume? approach is the best, but different strokes for different folks in the long run I guess?.