Has anyone ever done kneeling squats? What percentage of box squat max would be good to use?
Groove
Alright, I’ve got a question. What about pec work? My chest gets zero involvement from Westside training.
It seems like the lack of pec work might lead to injury on ME or competition bench movements. If you’re trying to set PR, there’s a high chance that if you miss, that form will break down during the attempt. (Tell me that you won’t do what it takes to get that bar up in competition. I would think a relatively untrained chest would be in a very vulnerable situation at that point.
Does anybody else see this as a problem? Maybe I’m doing something wrong? My triceps have gotten sensationally stronger in just 3 weeks, but I don’t want to see my chest become too weak, when it needs to be at the very least a damn good stabilizer.
Is there any way to work in more pec work to a Westside routine?
JaredNFS- Dude you should be geting plenty of pec work, It just is not the same type you recieved while you were training as a bodybuilder. Your doing speed work right? 40-60% plus mini bands for 9-20 sets? This is making your explosivness of the chest and making the pec-delt tie in regions conditioned to be explosive. Aslo once a month work up to a max single with the bands on there and video tape this lift see where you stall or slow down during the lift the bands are very good at exposing a weak points if you slow off the ches it will show you your pecs are a little weak and you need more bar speed, if you slow at lock out or in the midlle it is the triceps holding you back. If you fell pec and speed off the chest is holding ou back then use declines, reverse band presses, 1 board press, 2 board presses, and shirt work off boards to bring up that area. If you are rotating range of motons on max effort work and concentrating on speed day then your pecs wont be a problem. Also use dumbell presses of all angles as assitant work…Big martin
I guess a lot of it is the way I’ve been doing presses. There’s an elbows tucked way and then there’s an elbows flared way. When I tuck my elbows, all pec involvement pretty much ceases.
It was really obvious on suspended fat bar inclines. There were weights I couldn’t move, but when I just rotated my elbows to a flared position, my chest fired, and the weight went up. I don’t know.
Gentlemen,
What the hell is a Hassock Squat?
A hassock is a softer box squat. think foot stool. The hassock has a little give to it while a box is firmer.
You shouldn’t ever perform, or feel the need to perform a regular bench press for your ME movement. When you’re pushing relatively decent weight (350-400+), the stress in a full ROM bench is unneeded. Westside doesn’t do full ROM regular flat bench for ME work for more than one reason. One of the reasons included is due to unnecesary stress. It isn’t just because they compete.
Also, your elbows, in a competition bench, will flare out with maximal weight. A lot of people miss lifts beacuse their elbows flare out too QUICK. This implies a lack of upper back/lat strength.
Flaring your elbows puts you in a better lockout position, but it cannot come too quick.
If you touch very low (ie: a good DD shirt), Metal Militia style, you HAVE to flare some, or you’ll never lock out.
Oh, and my only Westside complaint is the lack of shirt work. They are realizing this, to a degree, if you read Bobs posts about the Metal Militia guys.
Metal Militia is a perfect example of how to really get EVERYTHING out of a shirt. Mike Miller knows a guy who benches 275 raw, but can put up 465 in a shirt (Karins DD) (this is no joke).
Equipment is the future of PL. I truely believe you need to incorporate shirt work more often, especially if you get a denim shirt.
hey guys whats up. im about to start westside training next week and i noticed its built around GHR and reverse hypers. but in my gym we dont have either. so i was wondering what yall thought would be the best exercises to replace those. by the way, im doin the ‘8 keys’ routine.
bigmartin-
Cool, then we’re in agreement. I totally understand the part about talking with your training partners being a bit different than posting on here…happens to me, too.
Jared-
1)There’s plenty of ways you can incorporate pec work; bigmartin did a thorough job of explaining this. In addition to what he wrote, we will do a max effort movement utilizing the repetition method every couple months or so, and it is usually a dumbell bench press or a regular bench press with 50% or so bar weight. This always fries my pecs as well.
Trust me when I tell you that for most, pecs are not an issue when following the Westside template (provided they are benching with what is considered good technique).
By the way, my favorite movement for hitting the pecs a bit while still getting a ton of tricep work are dumbell floor presses with hands facing each other.
john-
Although I agree with you that shirt work is quite important, I think the extent of its use is quite individual. We have a couple people here that feel they’ve been doing too much shirt work (especially with boards, etc.), and that it has hurt them in the long run. That, and the Westside template does not prohibit you from putting on your shirt whenever the hell you want to (remember, the template is yours to adapt…you don’t have to do exactly what they do in Louie’s gym), so any complaints you have should only be directed at yourself. I’m not trying to be harsh here; I’m just trying to make the point to everyone that this system is very adaptable to one’s own strengths and weaknesses. As an example, we train Westside here (hell, one of our guys writes for EFS), yet we do things quite differently than Louie’s gym does at times.
You seem pretty knowledgable about Westside and PLing…glad to see you contributing to this thread.
big martin, john, and Steve - thanks for the help. I think I’m going to have some guys at my gym look at my technique and make sure everything is okay.
Ok Guys I need some help. I got a Metal V-type single ply squater a few weeks ago but I am far out from my competiin and have been on a safety squat bar dyamic cycle for the last few weeks so I havent used it to squat in but can tell it will work very will for me in the squat because it is very tight and fits damn near perfect. Well today a tried it out as we were going to pull sumo ff a 4 inch box vs mini bands, so i thought I would see how it felt to deadlift in. Now I normally use a fairly loose pair of titan briefs to train in. Well a few months ago I changed my technique on the deadlift so That I have a divebomb, I pull sumo. Basically this means I start with my legs locked and then drop my hips very fast and low then pull with my shoulders behind the bar. Well the suit was so tight that it was not letting me get my hips low enough and I didnt even have the straps up because that made it impossibile to touch the bar while standing on the boxes. Every one is saying this suit is great for sumo deadlifting but man I pulled more with just my briefs on. Any one else have this problem or any of you guys who have used the metal v-type have any idea, I am maybe thinking about trying this one to squat in if it isnt to tight wich I dont think it will be it seems perfect for a wide stance squater and then buying another one 1 size bigger to pull in…Any one have any ideas or tips help a brother out…Thnaks Big Martin
Yeah I incorporate shirt work. If I didn’t I’d make myself look foolish at meets. I’ve found DD’s to be extremely hard to learn, and the switch from ply to DD was drastic but welcome indeed.
I was just pointing out that shirt work is important, especially when you get into the DD area. I throw in reps off of 2 boards every now and then. I just play it by feel.
We should all chip in some money and pay Steve for all the help that he’s given people in these Westside threads. Not to forget everyone else (Goldb, BigM, heavy, Landon, char, et al.), but Steve has really gone out of his way to help, encourage, and assist everyone. I’ve learned a lot from PM’ing him and reading his posts here on the threads.
By the way, my changeover to the darkside got halted by a bunch of personal problems (major issues / break-up with fiance, quit my job, setting up a new business). However, I am ready to focus in again on my training and will be starting a Mag-10 cycle with GSP, then switching over to Westside. Mag-10/GSP should add strength to all my lifts, which should help out when I start Westside. Just want to get some overall mass before I start (arms, legs, chest, shoulders).
My metal suit is a little big. I think I have a 54 but would have been better off with a 52. I decided just to grow into it though instead of sending it back. I had the same problem the first time i tried to pull in my suit. It sounds like yours is even tighter. I pulled conventional in it for the first time on saturday and i really liked the way it felt.
I second what Goldberg said. I tried on my metal squatter with the briefs last week, and man was it tight trying to get down. The material is unbelieveable on those suits. Narrower might work a little better with the equipment if it is that tight. I wonder if these will loosen up, or if the material holds its shape.
bigmartin-
I pull conventional (actually much like Goldberg from what I’ve seen of his form), and I had a helluva time getting to the bar and being explosive with a Metal Deadlifter. I can’t speak for any of the Metal squat suits, but I have determined that at this point I am better off pulling in my Frantz poly squat suit than in my Metal Deadlifter, simply because it’s too tight and restricts my explosiveness off of the floor.
My Metal briefs, on the other hand, kick ass. The material, as mentioned by irondoc, is amazing and doesn’t seem to give any more now than it did when I first started using them a few months back.
QTip-
My address for the money is already in your PM inbox.
Okay, not really.
The truth is that it’s nice to hear some positive feedback from people, but I enjoy talking about this stuff (hell I do it whenever I can) so it’s no big deal to contribute to this and other threads.
I use my old Z suit for deadlifting and it is working great for me. I am a conventional puller and even with this suit it is hard to get my hips low enough. Normally i grab the bar first with my legs almost straight and then use my arms to pull myself down into position, the setup takes a little longer but it works well. I find that slowly pulling myself down into position provides a false eccentric, once low enough i am ready to explode up. Big Martin, try to pull yourself down to position instead of squatting down and then grabbing the bar. Grab the bar first, then pull yourself down while squatting into position.
Could someone point me to a site where I can find out what kind of bench shirts are allowed by the APF?
Thanks.