Westside Questions III

Training Bodybuilding
61

Gotta post this here. Last week, we used the mini-bands for the first time and it was awesome. Great bench session. We went lighter; it was our dynamic effort session.

Today, it was max effort. I’m considering beginnig a journal in the Pound. In the meantime, here it is:

Bench
85x6 (warm up)
135x5
145x3
155x2
160x1
170x1
170x1
135x5

Decline Bench:
135x4x5

Dips: (bodyweight) 3x5

*yeah…weight suck; however I felt a noticeable improvement at the baine of my bench: at the chest. I worked last week on bar speed.

My goal is to get a solid 185 bench by the end of September. And a 200 bench for December.

This thread has inspired me. Thanks.

62

chrismcl wrote: I’m gonna go around posting the word “simmonstate” on a buncha other threads just to screw over char-dawg.

If you do that, I will hunt you down, kill you, and after rigor mortis has set in use your body to pin one corner of my favorite Arnold poster to my wall.

You have been warned.

63

There have been a couple of inquiries about my workouts, as a Westside newbie. So I’ll post a week here for everyone’s information, and also so that the vets can take a look and tell me if they see anything wrong.

Just for everyone’s information, I did this two-month cycle with maintenance cals, just to see what would happen to my strength levels without any bodyweight increase. Well, they went up. Although I think that some of the increase was just better technique on the various major lifts, I can also say with complete confidence that I’m stronger. And for those of you who are (like me) coming at this from a more or les mainly bbing perspective rather than just pure powerlifting, I can also say that it’s very effective for that purpose as well. For the first time in decades the actual shape of my hamstrings have changed. I now have something of a curve to them, which didn’t used to be the case. So it’s all good. :slight_smile:

Anyway, my next post will have the workouts.

64

Okay, here’s the workouts for last week. Feel free to ask whatever questions you like, but please, no PMs. Let’s keep this where everyone can see it.

17 Aug DE Squat
A) Box squats: 8x2 87kg (60% 1RM)
B) GMs (wide stance) 5x5 60kg
1st C) Pull-throughs 2x12 stack+10kg
2nd C) Roman chair sit-ups 2x12 holding 15kg plate
D) Standing calf raises 4x6 Stack+10kg.

18 Aug ME Bench
A) Bench Press: Barx5; 40kgx3; 60x3; 80x3; 90x1; 100x1; 110x1; 117.5xMiss; 100x2
B) DB extensions: 5x4 25kg (felt heavy, concentration off)
1st C) Close-grip pull-ups 8-7-6-4 Bodyweight
2nd C) Front raises 4x6 8kg
1st D) Tricep pushdowns 2x12 7 plates
2nd D) Gripper 4x5

20 Aug ME Squat
A) Deadlifts: 60kg x 5; 100x5; 120x3; 140x1; 150x1; 160x1; 172.5x1 (PR)
B) GH raise (used a green band and some rubber tubing) 4x8 BW
1st C) Cable crunches 2x12 stack+10kg
2nd C) Pull-throughs 2x12 Stack+10kg
D) Seated Calves 3x10 410lbs on a Cybex machine

22 Aug DE Bench
A) Bench Press: 8x3 60kg (3 different grips)
B) DB Incline press 4x5 37.5kg for two sets, then 35kg for the remaining two
1st C) Bent rows 4x6 75kg (too light)
2nd C) Lateral Raises 4x6 35kg DBs
1st D) Face-pulls: 2x10 50 lbs
2nd D) Anconeus extensions (a la Alessi) 2x12 12.5kg DB (alternating arms, no rest)

Notes: All B, C and D exercises are done with a one-minute rest between sets, as are the A exercises on DE days. The A exercises on ME days usually involve more rest (anywhere from 2-5 minutes) between the higher sets.

The anconeus extensions were thrown in because I’ve never done them before, and thought that with all the heavier stress on my elbows it would be a good idea. I have no clue whether they’ve actually helped or not, but I haven’t had any problems.

Some of my figures are in pounds, but most are in kilograms. Sorry.

All of the lifts were done absolutely raw. No belts, wraps, shirts or anything else. Just me.

You’ll notice that the C exercises are only for two sets. I started out doing four sets, but felt after a while that I wasn’t recovering properly. Also, as I said earlier, I’m mainly a bber, so I have no desire to thicken my mid-section any more than it is. If this means that I ultimately won’t be able to squat 600 pounds, that’s okay.

I did no sled or other specialized recovery work. In fact, I’ve done nothing besides run a few times here and there. Being older, new to the program, and an ectomorph, I tend to overtrain a lot more easily than most people would. So I’ve limited my volume. But this hasn’t changed the effectiveness of the program for me. It’s still yielded excellent results.

I started Westside on 3 June. In that time - again, with no BW increase - my my deadlift has gone up about 20 pounds, and both my bench and squat have gone up between 30-40 pounds each. This has - by far - been the most successful strength gain cycle I’ve ever done.

65

Char,

When doing deadlifts, you doing raw from the ground deadlifts? If so, you might want to instead to a variant of it. Pulls from boxes, pulls off of pins, reverse band deads, etc. I assume your 60-100kg sets were warmup? Just make sure your watching volume, and keep the sets at or below 6-7.

You do the full bench press for what reason? If for chest building, just stay with your db for that. My lifting partner is still somewhat of a bodybuilder, as we all kind of are (like to have big muscles), he goes into the gym on a off day, and does eccentric db presses for chest development. It’s worked great for him.

Just make sure your keeping the shoulders healthy.

Otherwise, good stuff.

66

Great work, Char. Your week looks pretty solid to me. I prefer a bit more upper back and core work, but you know your goals and weaknesses better than anyone.

I take it you’ve been switching the ME movements from week to week, correct?

67

“All of the lifts were done absolutely raw. No belts, wraps, shirts or anything else. Just me.”

I love the equipment reference. haha.

68

Goldberg and anyone else
I want to further expand the stance width/box height issue, as I want to use some low box squats as my ME exercise.

Goldberg mentioned something about low box, close stance squats for ME, right?
so the rule is lower box, closer stance? thats opositte to olympic squat logic but if you confirm thats what Ill do.

and what would the stance be on the DE squat? “the stance your the most quick at”? various?

not-related- on your log, goldberg, you mentioned the approximate tension of the bands. Ive got the same JS bands, how do you approximate?

thanks

S-man

69

also, I wanna build myself a sled.
any ideas?

70

also,

I appolgize for the “opositte”

its a small mamal, living in Israel.

71

Landon: Yes, the deads were off the ground and raw. I have incorporated some heavy rack pulls (from the knees up) as well, and I tried some Deimel deads once. These, for some reason, gave me some not-so-good pain around my kidney area, so I’m probably not going to do them again. (Have NO IDEA why that would happen, but whatever…)

Steve: Yes, I have been faithfully switching ME exercises around, don’t worry! Although I haven’t put in as much variation as I might have. Over the past three months (not two, I don’t know what I was thinking when I said that), I’ve done maxes with Squats, Deads and GMs for my lower body, and Bench Press, Close-grip BP and various levels (heights) of rack lock-outs for my upper body.

As for the band work, I haven’t used much at all. Aside from the GH raises, my very first band workout was yesterday, looping some over the top of my powerack and using them to go heavier than usual on GMs. Interesting feeling, to say the least. But I’m probably not going to incorporate them on a regular basis for a while yet. Don’t feel that I really need them at this point.

Goldberg: I have no particular opinion about using various equipment. I just don’t do it myself, and wanted to provide that information.

72

Good stuff Char! Thanks for posting the work out. I did my second ME-Bench tonight. It looked like this

2 board bench
95,135,225x5
315x3
365x1
385x1
405xmiss

Lying Cable tri ext 6X10@150
Cable push downs - 3X10@175
One arm raises - 3X10@25

All weights in pounds. Since this is only my second ME bench day was the work sufficient? Do you think I should
go up slower, or is 7 total sets of the board ME enough? Thanks for any input!

73

I just wanted to add my two cents in here. I am a strength coach and own a private gym called Renegade Barbell Club in central Jersey where we train mostly Westside style. We have a few powerlifting teams and I have learned many things about Westside the last few years. 1-It takes a good one to two years to truly learn the system and how to make it work optimally for you. 2-You do not have to follow the template exactly to get optimal results. 3- If you train raw you must do more full range max effort work, this is very important. 4- The percentages are only guidelines. 5-Be fast on speed day, we have guys who only use 40% yet there max effort work continues to go up. 6- Don’t do max effort singles for too many weeks in a row, this is different for everyone but eventually your CNS will burn out. We ususally do 2-3 weeks of singles followed by a 3-5RM or a high rep max effort day. Find out what works best for you. 7- You may not need as much tricep work as they do if you do not use a shirt. 8- Be careful not to overdo the GPP and extra work at the beginning, add it very slowly and in small volumes. 9- Even when using androgens it is not necessary to greatly increase the volume of the four main workouts, just do a bit more extra workouts. 10- You need training partners or even a group to get optimal results, just like Dave Tate says. Ever since we started our lifting groups, peoples numbers have gone up faster than ever. We had several people train as a team for the first time this summer and the average squat and dead increase was 80lbs from the beginning of June till the end of August. Unfortuately there arent an overabundance of powerlifting teams/groups looking for people to train with, but if you can find one, do it, it’ll be the best thing that ever happened to your training.

74

Glute-

You don’t necessarily have to go closer when going off of a lower box. You can make records with wide and close stances. The reason we often go closer stance on ME day is because we often want to mimick our deadlift stance. Remember, the max effort movement is there to train both our squat and deadlift.

As for your DE stance, it’s really one’s own decision, but it is usually recommended that one go wider than their normal squat stance so as to improve hip strength. I personally go just a tiny bit wider than my competition stance on DE day.

About the JS bands: check out their website for a chart that should give you some approximations.

Phatman-

Nice work off of the two board, man. Damn if I don’t wanna hit those numbers myself soon enough. For your main movement, you may want to take a few more in-betweeners; I would have taken 185, 275, and maybe 335 with what you had going there. Other than that, I probably would have ditched the cable pushdowns in favor of some sort of movement for your upper back.

bloatis-

Good shit, man. Can’t really say I disagree with you on any point, except that I don’t think anyone can ever have strong enough triceps, raw or not. I say keep pounding those fuckers.

75

Phat, I don’t really know what to tell you. Judging from (a) your numbers and (b) your pics, I’d say that you can probably handle a good deal more volume than I can. (Generally speaking, endomorphs can handle more than ectomorphs.) That said, only you will know for sure. Give it a month at this volume, then re-test and see where your numbers are. If you’re going up, then I say don’t mess with it. If you’re feeling burnt, then obviously you’ll have to drop back a little in some area. Or, if you’re feeling just all full of vim and vigor, then add a little more in. I’d say that you’ll be able to tell in another couple of weeks, though, one way or the other.

76

Thanks Char, Steve, I felt the volume was low myself. I was really expecting to hit 405 and go up again so when I missed I wasn’t sure if I should try it again or drop down ten pounds or just wait till next week and add in some more singles in between. (Which is what I decide to try)

Thanks Coach! Thats some good advice, I printed it up and added it my “Westside” collection. I wish I had a training partner but most guys in my gym just want to train “Pretty”…

77

Phatman-those are some really strong numbers. When you come back to 2 board you will get that easy. I usually do around 10 sets total. Maybe more if i hit a record.

78

Chardawg-i know. i was just messing with ya.

79

I think I’m gooing to give this a try. I’ve been doing a Ian King type workout for about 6 months but it doesn’t seem to work for me. I did better with a 4 day bodybuilder type split. Anyway I have a few questions that I couldn’t find the answers to.

1)What is the tempo for the ME,DE, and supplemental lifts?

2)I read the rest between DE lifts is 45-60 seconds but what about the ME (I would assume 3-5mins) and supplemental lifts? Also how long does everyone rest between the 3 rep warmup sets for the ME lifts?

3)A dimel DL just sounds like an explosive SLDL with a 1/0/1 tempo. Am I right?

Thanks in advance.

80

Steve, when I said you may not need as much tricep work that went hand in hand with needing more full range pressing. Louie always states that immediately after speed or max effort work you should go straight into hammering the triceps. However, this is because a bench shirt helps you out of the bottom so you need strong tri’s to lock it out.
I have found that doing lats, upper back, and full range work after speed or max effort is just as important as hitting the tri’s. That being said,we vary things all the time, sometimes tri’s first, sometimes later, sometimes high volume, sometimes low volume.
Speaking of volume, another important point I forgot to mention is that is quite easy to overtrain on Westside if you are not careful. The speed and max effort work is whats important, dont kill yourself on the assistance work by doing too many sets and going to failure. Our experienced lifters regulate volume based on how they feel that day, sometimes they will be feeling shitty and end the workout after max effort work, it all depends.
If I were to have someone do a standard hypertrophy workout I would normally prescribe somewhere in the range of 24-28 sets for a natural trainee. On Westside I usually limit the sets to 16-20 because the demand on the CNS is so high that overtraining becomes very easy.
One other thing we have been doing over the last 4 months is supersetting max effort work in an A1, A2 fashion. Example- A1-max effort 3 board press, rest 45-90 sec, A2- chest supported row for sets of 3. This saves time and gives you more bang for your buck. Also, it has relatively no effect on the bench work.
Lastly, I reccomend doing most max effort work with a close grip to work the tri’s even more. This also saves time because then you dont have to do as much extra work for the tri’s afterwards.
Thats all for now.