Oguard- I think your squat cycle looks good, the only thing I would sugest is to get your hands on a ssb for a few weeks in the cylce…Keep Up the hard work Big Martin
sdp,
I would suggest making sure you are ‘set’ before you even pull the bar out. I have found that I can’t move bigger weights if i have to spend time ‘setting’ before lowering the bar. Pull your shoulder blades together and down, pull the bar ot with the lats and push like hell.
If you are still having trouble i would have to agree with steve that the lats are the weak point. I know they are mine.
good luck.
j.
Martin, i agree that a safety squat bar would definately be a great idea to incorporate at some point, i used one regularly during my internship with the S&C staff at UMD and it helped alot. I just do not know where around the DC area i can find a gym with one.
You guys have converted me. Because of this thread (well, all three threads) and Tate’s articles, I feel like I can make a reasonable run at a westside program. Therefore, I’m starting the beginner program for Westside this coming Monday. Woohoo!
Oguard- Yea that sucks…I have the luxury to train in my own garage gym, hot damn am I a lucky man…Big Martin
David Denny- YO my man welcome to the Darkside…Now get strong or get the fuck out…LoL I painted that on my garage door in my gym cool hugh …Big martin
Hey heavythrower, I have a question for you. Recently I read the Westside Questions! post Anyway I noticed you posted up this program:
monday - power-snatch/power-cleans, 60-70% 6x1-2 each.
-jump squats with bout 30%
-heavy reverse-hyperextensions and ham glute calf machine.
-abds
-sled dragging
tuesday-power jerks, 12x1x60-70%
-overhead tricept movemnet of some sort, heavy, 3-5 sets 3-5 reps. n=my
favorite was barbell tricept press.
-shoulder complex stuff
-chins
-light revers hypers
-sled
wed-off
thurs-heavy pulls of some sort(usually snatch grip from floor, or clean grip
from hang) work up to max.
-(choose one of following)heavy squat movement, dead lift or goodmorning, work
up to 1-3 rep max.
-ham/calf glute machine
-heavy revers hypers
-abds
-sled
Friday-choose one of following and work up to a 1 rep max: STEEP incline bench,
floor press, push press.
-STEEP incline DB presses 3-4x5-8 reps
-shoulder complex stuff
-light tricepts
-light revers hypers
-sled
It appears by your accounts that this program was succussful in increasing your O-lifts. I was wondering if you could elaborate more on the program (i.e. rep schemes for the assitance work, tempo, what is your shoulder complex, how many sets/reps when working up to a max, etc.). I was wondering if you would reccomend the beginner routine posted by Dave Tate (using narrower squats instead of box squats), and then changing it up to O-lifts later, or to start with a program similar to what you have posted and work from there. Also, how did you cycle this program? I know you said you were training for the Highland games, but routine-wise what
did you do before and after the posted program. Sorry for the plethora of questions. Thanks in advance.
P.S. this other routine that you have just posted also looks appealing. I was wondering if you could elaborate a little more on that one as well.
westside/ol program
dynamic upperbody day-
jerks 60-70%10-12x2
tricepts, 3-5 sets 4-6 reps, usually overhead stuff
delts, your choice, keep it light, just go for a pump
max low body day-
exactly same as westside powerlifting program
max upperbody day-
rotate push-press, incline bench press, HEAVY STEEP incline dumbell presses, max single on first two, max 5 on the dumbells
overhead tricept stuff, shoulder prehab.
dynamic low body day-
snatch 6x1x60-70%
clean 6x1x60-70%
high pull variation of your choice, 3-4sets 3-5 reps.
hams, low back and abds.
Hey heavythrower, I have a question for you. Recently I read the Westside Questions! post Anyway I noticed you posted up this program:
monday - power-snatch/power-cleans, 60-70% 6x1-2 each.
-jump squats with bout 30%
-heavy reverse-hyperextensions and ham glute calf machine.
-abds
-sled dragging
tuesday-power jerks, 12x1x60-70%
-overhead tricept movemnet of some sort, heavy, 3-5 sets 3-5 reps. n=my
favorite was barbell tricept press.
-shoulder complex stuff
-chins
-light revers hypers
-sled
wed-off
thurs-heavy pulls of some sort(usually snatch grip from floor, or clean grip
from hang) work up to max.
-(choose one of following)heavy squat movement, dead lift or goodmorning, work
up to 1-3 rep max.
-ham/calf glute machine
-heavy revers hypers
-abds
-sled
Friday-choose one of following and work up to a 1 rep max: STEEP incline bench,
floor press, push press.
-STEEP incline DB presses 3-4x5-8 reps
-shoulder complex stuff
-light tricepts
-light revers hypers
-sled
It appears by your accounts that this program was succussful in increasing your O-lifts. I was wondering if you could elaborate more on the program (i.e. rep schemes for the assitance work, tempo, what is your shoulder complex, how many sets/reps when working up to a max, etc.). I was wondering if you would reccomend the beginner routine posted by Dave Tate (using narrower squats instead of box squats), and then changing it up to O-lifts later, or to start with a program similar to what you have posted and work from there. Also, how did you cycle this program? I know you said you were training for the Highland games, but routine-wise what
did you do before and after the posted program. Sorry for the plethora of questions. Thanks in advance.
P.S. this other routine that you have just posted also looks appealing. I was wondering if you could elaborate a little more on that one as well.
westside/ol program
dynamic upperbody day-
jerks 60-70%10-12x2
tricepts, 3-5 sets 4-6 reps, usually overhead stuff
delts, your choice, keep it light, just go for a pump
max low body day-
exactly same as westside powerlifting program
max upperbody day-
rotate push-press, incline bench press, HEAVY STEEP incline dumbell presses, max single on first two, max 5 on the dumbells
overhead tricept stuff, shoulder prehab.
dynamic low body day-
snatch 6x1x60-70%
clean 6x1x60-70%
high pull variation of your choice, 3-4sets 3-5 reps.
hams, low back and abds.
shit…
I just had the lousyiest westside workout ever.
I was doing squat singles after my box squat do add some volume. I was at my 11th single and my shoulders where pretty banged up so I put the bar high…
as I go down, I use the same groove as before and PAW it pulls me down because the bar is high and the weight shifts forward. my ass raises faster then my chest, my back rounds… and I felt my spine begging for mercy.
the thing is I dont fill I worked my legs at all! my weak links in the squat are my shoulders and lower back!
OK
now lets talk remedies
A. my spine and lower back hurts as hell and it only been an hour. what to do?
B. how to strengthen my lower back’s isometric strength? was thinking about dropping the squats and switching to GMs for a month or so. the thing is I hit my lower back alot with accessory help and its not helping obviously.
C. how to minimize the wear and tear on my rear shoulders, shoulder blades when squating? GB, you said it shouldnt be a problem but it is… fuck I cant sit.
S-man
Remedies for Glute-
1)I really wouldn’t recommend you do more than 1-3 singles after your DE squats, especially to “feel” your legs working. Westside isn’t designed for bodybuilding, Glute. This isn’t to say you won’t get sore from time to time, but this is definitely not the goal. Do your DE squats with perfect form, then once every few weeks do a COUPLE heavier singles. These should not be questionable singles…you should NOT be close to missing on these (or even worse, injuring yourself).
2)How are your normal range 5-10 sets of box squats? Is your lower back strength an issue on those, too? What is happening 11 sets later doesn’t really give us an idea of where you are when it counts… Assuming you are still having issues on your normal sets, I’d really have to see what your volume looks like for your lower back. Perhaps you’re not allowing enough time for these muscles to recover? Maybe you’re not doing enough? Maybe you simply need help with your form? Tough to say for sure, but if you’re doing 11 extra singles, I’d probably bet it’s the overtraining aspect.
3)Work on bulding your upper back and traps so that the bar has a nice “shelf” to sit on. Proper form will also ensure that the bar stays in place, and in a more comfortable place at that.
A little something extra: Never ever sacrifice form for extra sets, especially on your DE work (you mentioned you changed the bar placement, presumably for more “leg work”). These exercises are all about mastering form while getting faster. I can see cheating a tiny bit on certain accessory work from time to time to get an extra rep or two, but would never entertain the thought for speed squats, speed benches, or speed pulls.
First off, sorry for the double post earlier. Does anyone have the beginner westside routine that they can post or email me, i tried to going the westside site but its been down for the last few days (unless its my computer acting up). Anyway, much thanks.
thanks steve!
the squats I missed on where heavy one, and the only reason I moved the bar up was cause my shoulders was hurting after 10 heavy singles.
and yes, isometric lower back strength while Im at 45 degrees at my hip is my weak link.
thanks.
You should not have been doing a bunch of squat singles after dynamic effort squatting. There are other much more effective ways to add volume and i remember Louie Simmons reccomending against doing free squatting after dynamic work. Remember you can add volume by increasing your number of workouts, sets, band tension, exercises, weight etc.
GqArtguy -
-
Nice handle.
-
The beginner program should be available under the “8 Keys Article” by Dave Tate here at T-Mag.
PM me if you can’t find the article.
A question for anyone who does reverse band presses. What size band should I use(I use single-ply shirt,max 436)?
I have minis, purple, and greens.
Thanks
Don
Glute, I guess I just don’t know why you would be doing ten heavy singles if you’re following the Westside template.
One simple thing you can do to bring up your isometric low back strength is to try and stay tight in that “weak” position not only for your speed sets (obviously), but also when doing accessory and supplemental work (i.e., when doing a set of GHRs or hyperextensions, focus on staying tight in that position).
It sounds like way too simple of a remedy, but it helped me out quite a bit in the beginning. Sometimes people just need to be reminded to stay tight in certain areas ALL of the time in order to improve their isometric strength. Another one I have to consciously tell myself to do is squeeze the bar extremely hard when benching…I try to do this on my accessory work as well (when I can remember).
Don-most people make records with all of the bands. Ive done them with green bands and the blue bands.
don’t know, if this has already been answered on this thread (part III), but I just printed this so I will know in a day or two… But if this isn’t, well I’d like your input on this:
What kind of (if any?) modifications one should do to WSB when training to improve RAW-lifts? Maybe add some chest work and pressing movements for shoulders on ME/DE BB days and perhaps some quad work on SQ/DL days…? This is question is for all of you, what have you done (RAW-lifters) and what would you do (“gear-lifters”)?
And thanks to all of you… I feel like a parasite for “sucking” all this information from you guys… I really would like to give something back, but having used westside only for two months I don’t think i’m really qualified to give any instructions. Just learning myself…
i dont think you need to make any modifications. my raw max has gone up just like my meet max. which isnt saying much considering my shirted max might as well be a raw max. haha.
I had to share this with people who would understand…
When I first started Westside, on 6/23, my GM 1RM was 315. Last night, I did 385x2. A new PR and an increase greater than I ever expected in a 2 month period.
For those just starting to train Westside style. Stick with it. The strength gains you will experience will be unbelievable. The best thing about Westside is that even though I’m taxing the crap out of my CNS, I am far from overtrained and burnt out. I look forward to every workout and have to struggle to keep myself away from the power rack on off days.
Fellas, The safety squat bar is the devil, I say this as I sit here with every muscle in my lower back ripped to threads…Big Martin