You dont do the same type of good morning every week. At least i dont. You can do wide stance, close stance, medium stance, high bar, low bar, safety squat bar, cambered bar, buffalo bar, suspended safety squat bar, suspended buffalo bar, suspended regular bar, chains or bands or chains and bands on all of these bars,arched back, rounded back, neutral back. I think thats it. Maybe there are more.
If we listend primarly to research we would need to quit using bands. Because some pencil neck bicep curling faggot ass professor who benches 135 told us he has scientific proof they dont work.
Goldberg-Well that answers my question!! Thanks for the feedback. Reminded me of Bubba in Forrest Gump. “Shrimp salad, shrimp cocktail, barbeque shrimp …”
[quote]If we listend primarly to research we would need to quit using bands. [/quote]just because there is no current work applicable to the was that westside uses them, doesnt mean taht it doesnt work in terms of science. Anecdotal evidence may not be perfect, but it shows htat hte bands do work. What extent they work is still to be eludicated via research.
Remember Westside is based on research (done by guys in lab coats), and it is just louie et als interpretation of hte literature. As CT has mentioned before, there are many people who create programs off that research that have come up with something completely different.
I have been reading and reading and reading about WS for about a year now and am about ready to jump in.
I just wanted to pass along an article I read at the EFS site that put some things into perspective for “ME”.
In the Beginning by Bob Youngs
It kind of restates things said by the WS vets here about not jumping in to quickly and getting yourself burnt out.
Hope it helps,
C13Riberdy
The reason the study on bands didnt work is because they only used 10% band tension. Most phases call for at least 30-40%.
Cycomike,
I would suggest reading
if you haven’t already. It basically hits everything on the head about the conjugate method, and the role it plays with the CNS.
Mel C Siff states in SuperTraining about the Conjugate Method:
[i]“As is known, the ‘degree of contrast’ in training is a factor which enhances the functional responsiveness of the body. With the conjugate sequence scheme, this factor optimally enhances the effectiveess of the special strength training”
“Usually, it involves training a carefully chosen sequence of specific motor abilities, each of which is confined largely to a given period, a scheme that saves time and energy”[/i]
Whereas regular squats get me sore, box squats never do. And I’m using tremendous weight (at least for me) on my ME day. I also have upped the volume. I know soreness is not the best indicator, just wondering if others get sore from the box squats.
I guess my real question is how do guys gain weight on westside (I’m assuming muscular bodyweight) from the ME and DE stuff?? I remember reading either in 8 keys or on the elitefitness website the average WS user gains 30-40 lbs in the first year.
If you are really busting your balls on all four main days you will get bigger and stronger. Remember that the DE and ME movements are not the only things you do. Like yesterday i did Dimel Deadlifts, shrugs, and pulldown abs. The dimels killed my low back, glutes, and hamstrings and the shrugs killed my traps. These are big muscle groups that can grow very easily when stressed in the right way. Im also sore from doing my low box squat too. Try a down set at 80% for 3 or 5. This can also help with muscle growth. If growth is your number one concern do 3’s and 5’s instead of singles for max effort work. DE work should not make you sore. Or at least it never has me. Unless i worked up to a heavy single after my DE sets.
Also remember this. In the beginning I lost size because i really didnt know what i was doing. My volume was really low and i wasnt working hard enough. As soon as i increased my volume my weight shot back up. This is a program that you have to play with to work. It wont just be the greatest thing ever right off the bat. You have to be in this for the long haul.
I’m starting my 10th week, and I’m up 7 pounds w/o a drastic change in diet. I’m loving this shit so far. Definitely the most enjoyable weight training I’ve ever done.
It is definitely the most enjoyable way to train that i have ever found. Its fun as hell to max out every week on some exercise.
Question regarding WS method for gaining size. I’m currently a 181 and would like to begin competing at 198. How would you alter the Westside method to incorporate hypertrophy?
Also, has anyone ever experimented with a one day on one day off split, thus breaking the cycle every 7 days to every 8?
Last question, I had shoulder surgery last May (torn biceps tendon and labrum). When, how often, and what excercises would you opt for prehab?
Any help would be appreciated.
On reverse band bench presses how do you set the bands?
Deaddoc look at my above post to see how to change things for gaining mass. Most gain mass though with the program exactly like it is.
On reverse band press you just choke the band around around the top of the rack or around a pin set high in the rack.
There is no need to really alter the Westside program if you want to gain muscle mass. Included in the program is the repetition method which is done with assistance exercises after dynamic or ME work, alot of these exercises are performed to or near failure which can cause plenty of hypertrophy. Just work more on the big muscles of the legs, hips and back because they are where you can gain the most weight, also eat more. For reverse band bench set the bands up high on the power rack to that the bar is weightless at chest level, check out elitefts for the band setup.
[quote]The reason the study on bands didnt work is because they only used 10% band tension. Most phases call for at least 30-40%. [/quote]which is why I said no applicable research, and any advantages there or not are still to be eludicated by other research.
[quote]“As is known, the ‘degree of contrast’ in training is a factor which enhances the functional responsiveness of the body. With the conjugate sequence scheme, this factor optimally enhances the effectiveess of the special strength training”
“Usually, it involves training a carefully chosen sequence of specific motor abilities, each of which is confined largely to a given period, a scheme that saves time and energy” [/quote]Damn siffs style of writing stands out a mile
But, this doesnt say anything about CNS stress. Degree of contrast is a combination of stenght/hypertrophy in the same phase of the periodization. ADN it improves the effectiveness of the strength training. What it doesnt say is that changing exercises doesnt reduce stress the CNS.
Thanks Goldberg and OGuard
oops, htat last bit of mine should say
“doesnt sayt hat changing exercises reduces CNS Strain”
Cycomiko- Why dont you ask your question at elitefitness. I really dont get caught up in science. I am a big, dumb, stinky, beer drinking bastard. I like to lift big weights! westside hepls me do that!! science sucks I usually hate and have no respect for any science teacher, espicially college professor’s. Thy all weigh like 145 and bench 135 pounds and run marathons, then they have the balls to tell me I lift weights wrong and westside people are uneducated and morons. thats why I lift in my garage with other stupid, uneducated, stinky, beer drinking bastards. We lift heavy, do what Louie and Dave say works, then go in the house have a big pinch of Kodiax and a MGD as a post workout shake and wake up stronger the next day. Now thats my kind of weight lifting.
Have fun Big Martin
yes, I have asked before, but havent received a decent reply. I have asked Siff before, and havent recieved a decent reply. I think a lot of people are capable of more. However, I also agree with JM Blakley, he has mentioned that as the weights get heavier (500+lbs bench type of things) you cant bench as often with out screwing over the body(joints and CNS). As I bench twice weekly over 360lb, I am probably not stressing my CNS as hard as the likes of Tate would be on any of his ME exercises.
But, this aint the place to blather science and lifting big weights is fun. Drinkin beer is fun to.
Scaring PE students away during their ‘advice giving’ lectures is more fun.
PL is the best.