Westside/PLing Training Thread

Training Powerlifting
8911

[quote]Julius_Caesar wrote:
Matt McGorry wrote:

I never know why I bother responding to your posts. Anyway…

You have a terrible reputation for being insulting and ignorant. Therefore, anything you say will be looked at through that lens.

The PCT comment is a perfect example. Perhaps you assume that anyone stronger than you is juicing. That in itself, is idiotic. Or maybe you consider it an insult by calling people juicers, in which case you are again misinformed. Not everyone who chooses not to “use” is stupid enough to try and insult people who do.

Actually I was just giving a few of you the benefit of the doubt by attributing your bitchy behavior to some chemical as opposed to the other scenario…

As for the stronger comment, I see some who lift more than I do here and some that lift less. The former doesn’t really bother me because I am not an egomaniac like some here so I don’t take pride in the latter either.

Matt McGorry wrote:

And in regards to your question about why what we are doing does not resemble WS…the answer is because “we feel like it.” When (if) you train, you learn things about your body and what works and what doesn’t.

I would also like to point out that many guys out of WS have said “IF YOU’RE NOT TRAINING AT WESTSIDE, YOU’RE NOT DOING WESTSIDE”.

Take what works and leave what doesn’t. It’s that simple…or at least it should be.

-Matt

Actually I was looking for more than that. I thought maybe you guys were getting the ideas from somewhere and I was curious to see the reasoning behind it.

[/quote]

Julius_Caesar,

Would it really make that much of a difference if we renamed the thread, or started a new one? This thread is here for people who train to powerlift.

Some people are doing Westside, some are doing Sheiko. Sometimes we try out a 5x5 or a Smolov, or whatever. People are here to learn and share their information. We don’t tolerate stupidity or ignorance.

If something isn’t working, we make changes to figure out what works and what doesn’t. Most of us are doing some version of a Modified Westside Template. It’s not a Program. It’s not written in stone.

I’ve dropped DE work and replaced it with RE work. Why? Because I didn’t get much out of DE work. It left my joints feeling beaten up, and I didn’t get the gains I wanted.

I train my lats on my Lower day. Why? I was too fatigued after training a big pressing movement, then hitting my tri’s hard on the supplemental movement, shoulders as an accessory movement, trying to get in some kind of prehab, etc. It’s what works for me. Some of the guys over on Elite have done the same things, some haven’t.

Matt is trying out a Sheiko Cycle right now. Is he out of the group? Are we going to tell him to go post somewhere else? Only if he becomes an asshole and stops contributing to the thread. It’s not going to happen, because he’s a good person, and adds a lot to what we have here. He’s going to learn something from doing Sheiko, and he’s going to share those results with us. Hopefully we all learn something as well.

This is a good thread, with good people. Who cares what the title is? If you are here to pollute it, look somewhere else.

8912

[quote]Pemdas wrote:
I am feeling over trained. I am definitely going to deload over the holidays. [/quote]

Me too, bro. Me too.

AD

8913

Wednesday, 12/18/07
ME Lower

wasn’t really “feeling it” today, so I did a bunch of things I’ve not done in a long time. In some ways, I took it easy, but in others I didn’t.

Box Squat:

bar x20
50kg x10
60kg x8
80kg x5
100kg x3
120kg x1
140kg x1
160kg x0 (got an ass cramp on this and then lost my core strength and got pinned. At first I was about 2" off the seat, but then the cramp…couldn’t recover from it).
140kg x5

Haven’t done bax squats in a LONG time, so while I know the 140kg is a PR, I have no comparison ATM.

Revers Hypers:
10,10
Add 3kg DB b/t feet: 10
Add 5kg DB B/t feet: 10

(the last attempt really hit home. I’ve not done these in like 2-3 years)

Leg Extensions:
10th pin: 10,10
11th pin: 10
12th pin (max on the machine): 10

Leg Curls:
7th pin: 10,10
8th pin: 10 (3rd set double PR)
9th pin: 10 (4th set double PR)

Standing Cable crunches (on lat pulldown machine, using a towel)
5th pin: 8,10,10
6th pin: 8

Felt really good to “take it easy” on the last ME day before my deload week. Still not sure what to do during the deload, though.

AD

8914

[quote]AlphaDragon wrote:
Wednesday, 12/18/07
ME Lower

Felt really good to “take it easy” on the last ME day before my deload week. Still not sure what to do during the deload, though.

AD

[/quote]

I haven’t figured out what I like for deloads yet either. In the past, I have still gone to gym and did light full body stuff. Like 15 rep light. This time around, I am just going mess around with a band. I have been meaning to try some band exercises(just the band), but I never seem to get around to it. I’ll be at parents for few days, so this seems like a good time to give it a go.

Just remember…eat grow sleep. Don’t starve yourself…even a little.

8915

12/10/07 - Lower (RE)

A) Deadlift Technique Work (Belted)
135x6
225x6
315x6
405x3
495x3
495x2
495x2

B) Cybex Squat Press (Leg Press)
360x6
540x6
720x6
900x6
990x6
1040x5+3 <—(some sort of PR)

C) Pullups (Medium Overhand)
x8
x8
x8

I almost put this lift off until tomorrow. I was going to take today off and combine Upper and Lower tomorrow, but decided that would be the easy way out.

I’m going to try using the belt on Deadlifts during my RE work. I loosened up the belt one notch, and still felt like I had to pull myself down to the bar. They felt good, but not great. This will take some getting used to, as I never wear a belt even for PR attempts. We’ll see how it goes.

My old PR on Leg Press is 1000x6, and the 990 (11 plates/side) went up pretty well, so I added a 25 to each side. The 5th rep was a struggle, and I didn’t feel like getting sandwiched, so I lifted the safety catch into place and got 3 more reps. The safety probably takes around 3 inches off my range of motion, so they weren’t full reps, but they were definitely taxing. Legs are still a little wobbly.

Finished up with some pullups, but my lats and lower traps are still tired from Mondays Pendlay Rows, so this was nothing spectacular.

Good day overall, and I’m glad I didn’t push it off until tomorrow.

8916

[quote]Pemdas wrote:
AlphaDragon wrote:
Wednesday, 12/18/07
ME Lower

Felt really good to “take it easy” on the last ME day before my deload week. Still not sure what to do during the deload, though.

AD

I haven’t figured out what I like for deloads yet either. In the past, I have still gone to gym and did light full body stuff. Like 15 rep light. This time around, I am just going mess around with a band. I have been meaning to try some band exercises(just the band), but I never seem to get around to it. I’ll be at parents for few days, so this seems like a good time to give it a go.

Just remember…eat grow sleep. Don’t starve yourself…even a little.
[/quote]

For my deloads I’ve been picking 3 movements (instead of 4) and using 70% of my RE weight and 50% of the usual working volume.

So if I normally did 4 sets of 6 at 100lbs on my RE day, I’ll keep the warmup the same, and then do 2 sets of 6 at 70lbs. I also drop back to 3 days of training, one Lower day, one Upper day and one combined.

It’s enough to keep me from having that weak as a kitten first day back in the gym, but also allows me to recover from a heavy training cycle.

8917

Matt, do you have a Sheiko 29 spreadsheet?

I have that you can plug your maxes into, and it will spit out a 4 week cycle with all the poundage for you, if you need it.

8918

12/19/2007: Me Upper + 1 ME Lower

In an effort to make up for mondays botched workout I threw a single lower ME movement in today.

Bench:
45x12x2
95x8
135x5
Added 2 Board
185x3
210x2
225x1
245x1
255x0
225x1,1,1

Bow Squat(box +45plate):
45x8
135x5x2
225x5
275x2
315x1
365x1
315x1,1

Cable Row:
160x8
190x8
205x6x2

2 Rope Face Pull:
150x8x4

Pullups(OVH):
+20x4x2
BWx8

Today was pretty decent. Missed that 255 bench again so I guess its time to reevaluate what I’m doing. A big problem for me is unevenness of my arms on bench. Also, my left wrist tends to cock back 2x as much as my right. I’m attributing that to a weak tricep?

Box Squats felt good, lower than normal by about 1-1.5", working my way to just the box. Hopefully this doesn’t have adverse affects on speed day.

8919

[quote]AshyLarry wrote:
12/19/2007: Me Upper + 1 ME Lower

In an effort to make up for mondays botched workout I threw a single lower ME movement in today.

Bench:
45x12x2
95x8
135x5
Added 2 Board
185x3
210x2
225x1
245x1
255x0
225x1,1,1

Bow Squat(box +45plate):
45x8
135x5x2
225x5
275x2
315x1
365x1
315x1,1

Cable Row:
160x8
190x8
205x6x2

2 Rope Face Pull:
150x8x4

Pullups(OVH):
+20x4x2
BWx8

Today was pretty decent. Missed that 255 bench again so I guess its time to reevaluate what I’m doing. A big problem for me is unevenness of my arms on bench. Also, my left wrist tends to cock back 2x as much as my right. I’m attributing that to a weak tricep?

Box Squats felt good, lower than normal by about 1-1.5", working my way to just the box. Hopefully this doesn’t have adverse affects on speed day.

[/quote]

Bench Comments:
Don’t underestimate the power of triples, especially at your level.

You are probably right about triceps imbalance. Another thing to look out for is where your feet are. If they are uneven(one is farther back or closer to the bench) this might also cause the bar to go up uneven.

This wrist cock thing might be related to the imbalance but really I think this is just a technique issue. Just don’t cock it. Squeeze the bar as hard as you can. This makes it hard to cock the wrists.

8920

ME Upper

45x20
95x2x5
135x3

2-Board
185x3
225x3
245x1
265x1
285x1
305x0 - Not my week. Usually I would try again, but I am learning not to do that. I decided to go for some triples.
270x3 - (35lb PR) Right at 90%
275x3 - (40lb PR) I was going to go for two, but the first two felt strong so I went for 3. I got it and this made me happy. It was a grinder. These look like huge PRs, but I haven’t tried for a triple in long time.

Overhead Rope Tri. Extensions
100x3x8
100x6

DONE!

I am seriously overtrained. I haven’t been hungry. I haven’t been able to sleep well. I feel mildly depressed and I can’t think clearly. This holiday break is going to be awesome.

8921

Sheiko #29- Week 1- 12/19/07

1 Hour 45 Minutes

1)Deadlift To Knees
255x3
305x3
355x3 x3
385x3 x3 x3 x3

2)Incline Bench (paused) (~50%)
135x6 x6 x6 x6

3)Dips
BWx5 x5 x5 x5 x5

4)Deadlift From Pins
(3" below knees- pin #2 and standing on 25s)
280x4
330x4
385x4 x4 (big pauses between reps- put on belt halfway through)
435xMISS (wouldn’t budge, tried about 3 times- put on straps)
405x3 x3 x3
(2" below knees- pin #2, NO plates)
435x3

5)DB Static Lunges (~20% of squat)
35lbsx5 x5 x5 x5 x5

6)Lever Crunch
10lbx10 x10 x10

2 hours later: Contrast shower- focus on low back- 25-30secondsx4

Notes:*Bar was supposed to be 2" below knees, but I didn’t realize that it was 3" below until I remembered that I had my tape measure. I had to drop from 435 because it wouldn’t budge, but when I went to the correct pin height for the last set, it did go up. Good to know that the strength was there, but I just made a mistake.

Had to put in straps because the grip wouldn’t hold. Since I’ve never had an issue on a 1RM, I don’t think it’s an issue. Put on a belt just as a precautionary measure; I definitely felt like I was using my lower back.

Even before the workout, my legs were still VERY sore. Walking was uncomfortable and sitting and standing up made me wince. First time in over a year pulling more than a single for a deadlift working set, haha.

-Matt

8922

[quote]Pemdas wrote:

Bench Comments:
Don’t underestimate the power of triples, especially at your level.

You are probably right about triceps imbalance. Another thing to look out for is where your feet are. If they are uneven(one is farther back or closer to the bench) this might also cause the bar to go up uneven.

This wrist cock thing might be related to the imbalance but really I think this is just a technique issue. Just don’t cock it. Squeeze the bar as hard as you can. This makes it hard to cock the wrists. [/quote]

I did triples for 4 weeks and last week switched to singles with the board because it was my first time using the board. I made a lot better progress doing triples it seems, so I think I should probably go back to that.

I have to have my spotter watch my feet for me, I’m still working on my form and each setup is a little different because I haven’t really found a good position yet. The wrist cock thing is weird, its not a conscious thing I do, it just happens naturally when I unrack the bar.

I’ve tried keeping it straight but it inevitably cocks backwards as the bar goes up. I squeeze pretty hard on the bar, and use chaulk so that it doesn’t slip…maybe I just need to focus more.

8923

12/19/2007 DE lower
box squat
bar x 5, 5, 5
95 x 5
135 x 3
185 x 2, 2, 2
195 x 2, 2, 2
205 x 2, 2, 2
215 x 2, 2, 2

Romanian DL
135 x 6
185 x 15, 15, 14 + 1 (grip died)

back ext
BW x 15
10 x 15, 13

pulldown abs
100 x 10, 20, 20

hip adductor
3 sets of 12

Notes:
Form keeps getting better on the squats! I need to spread the floor better and lead with my head. I’m getting good at staying tight and my speed keeps improving. Everything was pretty basic today.

Brian’s adductor was really bothering him so he did some sets on the adductor machine and pressured me into joining him. Once I got on there I realized how tight and sore I am there. Should probably keep doing these.

8924

ME Upper

1-Board and 2-Board Presses (medium grip–pinky on rings)
Warm-up
45x10
65x8
85x8
95x3
115x3
1-Board
135x3
155x3 (PR+10)
2-Board
165x3 (baseline PR)
165x2

DB Bench 35’sx12, 45x10 (PR+20), 50x5 (PR+30), 35’sx9

1 V-Bar Row 100x2x10, 100x12 (PR+2 reps)
2 Facepulls 3 sets

1 Oly Bar Curls 65x3x8
2 Pressdowns 3 sets

The DB bench PR’s were kind of cheap; I’ve been working up in reps with the 35’s for months without touching anything heavier.

8925

I got some great news today. I have the test level of a 60 yo man! Got my blood work back from last week my level is at 300, doc says he likes it to be 800-1000. No wonder I feel like shit. I am gonna try some placebo injections for 6 weeks, if this does not work looks like I will be on test for the rest of my life!

The shitty part is that I have never done gear ever, my shit is still screwed up. I have always trained and lifted in drug free meets. Fuck it may be time to man up and take a few good cycles, what have I got to lose?

DE upper
dyn warm up
band pull aparts
shoulder dislocates
face pulls 220
inverted lat pulls 220
v grip pull downs 220
clings 2010 30*10

bar10
9510
13510
1853

half roller
2253
2253
2353
2353
2453
2452
2553
2553

I have been noticing that some of the guys on elite fts shirt up after dynamic bench. Thought I would give it a try. Worn out rage x 54 single.

2752 2 board
3152 half roller
365*10 I was going to do two and go up to 405 but it felt so good I had to keep going. This was a tremendous PR for reps, I have never done this many reps of any thing in a shirt, felt really strong!

dumbbell rows 8015 10010
tri push downs 751515
curls

8926

2007.12.19

Sheiko #31 Week 1 Day 2

Bench Press
130x5x1
155x5x1
185x4x2
195x3x2
210x2x2
220x1x2
210x2x2
195x3x2
185x4x1
170x6x1
155x8x1
145x10x1
130x12x1

Deadlift
275x4x1
335x4x2
390x2x4

Lunge
140x5x5

Hanging Leg Raise
BWx11x3

Good session. I need to start going to bed earlier.

8927

[quote]Pemdas wrote:
I am seriously overtrained. I haven’t been hungry. I haven’t been able to sleep well. I feel mildly depressed and I can’t think clearly. This holiday break is going to be awesome. [/quote]

After reading this, I now I’m not nearly as bad as you, dude. I just feel beat up and my recovery time is longer than before…but you are like 10x worse than me (after factoring everything in).

Enjoy the back off, man. Sounds like you need it.

AD

8928

[quote]Modi wrote:
Pemdas wrote:
AlphaDragon wrote:
Wednesday, 12/18/07
ME Lower

Felt really good to “take it easy” on the last ME day before my deload week. Still not sure what to do during the deload, though.

AD

I haven’t figured out what I like for deloads yet either. In the past, I have still gone to gym and did light full body stuff. Like 15 rep light. This time around, I am just going mess around with a band. I have been meaning to try some band exercises(just the band), but I never seem to get around to it. I’ll be at parents for few days, so this seems like a good time to give it a go.

Just remember…eat grow sleep. Don’t starve yourself…even a little.

For my deloads I’ve been picking 3 movements (instead of 4) and using 70% of my RE weight and 50% of the usual working volume.

So if I normally did 4 sets of 6 at 100lbs on my RE day, I’ll keep the warmup the same, and then do 2 sets of 6 at 70lbs. I also drop back to 3 days of training, one Lower day, one Upper day and one combined.

It’s enough to keep me from having that weak as a kitten first day back in the gym, but also allows me to recover from a heavy training cycle.
[/quote]

Something about this (what Modi Said) seems to scream “Yes!” in my mind, so I think I’ll give this method a go this time.

…although now I’m beginning to wonder if I really need a deload week after reading about Pemdas’ condition. :wink:

AD

8929

[quote]Mountainman2007 wrote:
I got some great news today. I have the test level of a 60 yo man! Got my blood work back from last week my level is at 300, doc says he likes it to be 800-1000. No wonder I feel like shit. I am gonna try some placebo injections for 6 weeks, if this does not work looks like I will be on test for the rest of my life!

The shitty part is that I have never done gear ever, my shit is still screwed up. I have always trained and lifted in drug free meets. Fuck it may be time to man up and take a few good cycles, what have I got to lose?

[/quote]

I apologize in advance if this seems smartalek or condoning…it’s not meant to be, but sometimes my personality translates poorly into the written word.

Onward:

I don’t know what to say exactly, bro. While I’m much less strong than you are, I can’t help but remember just how many guys out there would like to find a doc who would encourage HRT.

Personally, I wouldn’t mind one, myself.

I realize you are a competitor, bro, but there is a bright side to it.

AD

8930

I have reviewed my training logs to figure out why I am over trained cause I really shouldn’t be using the conjugate method of training. I feel like such a newb. 8 out of the past 10 week I did either 2 or 3 board press. Talk about lack of variation. Lower days aren’t any better. 3 free squats, 3 deadlifts, 2 box squats. I am pretty sure that I am over trained because I obviously didn’t have enough variation. Lesson learned!