Westside/PLing Training Thread

[quote]teotjunk wrote:
I am familiar with De Franco’s program. If I were to try it, what I would do is to simply do is to replace my dynamic days with RE days (still a four day program, just replace DE with RE).

I understand his rationale for it. He is claiming that speed work is not important unless you are a lot bigger but the person introduced me to the WSB template, someone who competes at national level in powerlifting competition, repeatedly emphasized to me the importance of speed work, even though I was skinny. So I would have to weigh what he says against what De Franco says

teotjunk[/quote]

Joe D developed his program based on what he had seen with the hundreds of athletes he has trained over the years. Speed days are fine, and if you look at my training log you’ll see that I’ll cycle them in every second or third week (depends on if it’s upper or lower body).

He removed DE days because they can be just as taxing to one’s body as a max effort day. I can attest to that: DE bench really beats up my elbows and shoulders and DE squat/dl can fry your hips and low back. The RE days are used to primarily build hypertrophy, but also allow you to focus on a particular lift and work on form if need be.

Another person whose training philosophy I find compelling and worthy of consideration is Jack Reape, a top USAPL lifter in the 242s. He mixes WSB with Eastern Bloc type of training. Here, the core lifts are focused on much more and trained twice a week built around a WSB-style template.

He wrote a great article about it on elitefts.com called “Somewhere Between Moscow and Columbus”. He’s an elite-level lifter, and the article is geared toward his competition training, but beginners and intermediates (like myself) can manage his routine or something close to it.

One thing to take away from this is to adapt a training philosophy to one’s own capabilities and ultimate goals. WSB is great and has helped focus my training to produce great results that I never thought were possible. It also made me realize that getting stronger doesn’t have to be complicated.

For example, instead of being preoccupied with weak points in a lift, just get bigger and stronger and your weak points will start to take care of themselves. Also, ME work doesn’t have to entail going for max singles, but can also be for 3s and 5s. Not only will you get stronger pushing the lifts up, but the added time under tension can lead to muscle hypertrophy…and who doesn’t want bigger arms?

[quote]skidmark wrote:
2007-7-10
1st session
RE Lower Cycle 3

Free Squat to parallel
115x10
205x8
275x5
325 4x5,4

Good Mornings to 4" above parallel, straight leg, arch back med stance
255x5,6,6,7 (raise weight)

“Speed” deadlift (clean grip)
355 6x1 (t’ain’t too speedy yet…)

DB Swings (head high)
100 3x15

Notes: Haven’t free squatted for a while. old habits die hard, still break at the knees first if I don’t pay attention and especially so on the last rep. No problem breaking at the hips if I know I’m going to a box. Weird.

Speed deads aren’t. still slow on them, but I figure that’s because I have two heavy movements in front of it. It may be the clean grip too. I’m slower in taking the weight up when I use clean grip.

Got my tricep press down built, so now I can start really concentrating on those wimpy little guys.[/quote]

Its interesting that you do speed work on the same day as heavy squats and good mornings! Im not sure thats the best plan of attack. I’ve seen it written by Louie Simmons and other powerlifters over on Elite FTS that speed work should not be done on the same day as heavy squatting/good morning lifts. Their rational is that your brain cant deal with being asked to do the two different types of lifting in one session.

Ell

[quote]skidmark wrote:
2007-7-10
1st session
RE Lower Cycle 3

Free Squat to parallel
115x10
205x8
275x5
325 4x5,4

Good Mornings to 4" above parallel, straight leg, arch back med stance
255x5,6,6,7 (raise weight)

“Speed” deadlift (clean grip)
355 6x1 (t’ain’t too speedy yet…)

DB Swings (head high)
100 3x15

Notes: Haven’t free squatted for a while. old habits die hard, still break at the knees first if I don’t pay attention and especially so on the last rep. No problem breaking at the hips if I know I’m going to a box. Weird.

Speed deads aren’t. still slow on them, but I figure that’s because I have two heavy movements in front of it. It may be the clean grip too. I’m slower in taking the weight up when I use clean grip.

Got my tricep press down built, so now I can start really concentrating on those wimpy little guys.[/quote]

skidmark, have you tried setting up a box 2" below parallel, starting the motion as though you were going to box squat, but only going to parallel? That might give you the confidence to really sit back more on the free squats. And if you miss the lift, hell you can always sit on the box for a while and think about it…

[quote]Modi wrote:
another one…[/quote]

nice DECK!

c.

It’s probably the clean grip that’s slowing you down. When I use that kind of grip, I’m slow as shit (when constipated of course) as well. And doing the good mornings right before probably had your low back a little fried. Maybe do deads first? shrugs

If you really want to improve speed off the floor give speed deficit (~2-3") DLs a try. Drop the weight a little, though, or they really won’t have any speed at all. Use normal grip.

[quote]skidmark wrote:
2007-7-10
1st session
RE Lower Cycle 3

Free Squat to parallel
115x10
205x8
275x5
325 4x5,4

Good Mornings to 4" above parallel, straight leg, arch back med stance
255x5,6,6,7 (raise weight)

“Speed” deadlift (clean grip)
355 6x1 (t’ain’t too speedy yet…)

DB Swings (head high)
100 3x15

Notes: Haven’t free squatted for a while. old habits die hard, still break at the knees first if I don’t pay attention and especially so on the last rep. No problem breaking at the hips if I know I’m going to a box. Weird.

Speed deads aren’t. still slow on them, but I figure that’s because I have two heavy movements in front of it. It may be the clean grip too. I’m slower in taking the weight up when I use clean grip.

Got my tricep press down built, so now I can start really concentrating on those wimpy little guys.[/quote]

[quote]c. wrote:
Matt McGorry wrote:
Nice squat, C. Get some pics next time. :slight_smile:

What…my word’s not good enough around these parts??

Squat 16-friggin-5

c.

[/quote]

Can’t really see the plates. Could be 10lb bumpers for all we know (JUST KIDDING!)

Nice job on the PR! Looked a little tough there in the middle…I’m very familiar with that feeling! lol.

[quote]elliotnewman1 wrote:

Its interesting that you do speed work on the same day as heavy squats and good mornings! Im not sure thats the best plan of attack. I’ve seen it written by Louie Simmons and other powerlifters over on Elite FTS that speed work should not be done on the same day as heavy squatting/good morning lifts. Their rational is that your brain cant deal with being asked to do the two different types of lifting in one session.

Ell

[/quote]

Yeah, I’ve read that too. I think you’re right - once I start to get into some real weight, I’ll need to drop either the submaximal/RE efforts or the speed work and concentrate on one or the other.

Right now I seem to be able to make a mental shift between the two and it seems to be ok. Note that the “explosive” stuff is grouped at the end of the session. To my brain, it seems like the beginning of a new session.

I have to have deadlifting in there or my dead goes to shit. Doesn’t have to be heavy, but I get a better max deadlift when I keep the move integrated in my training. The DB swings have only helped my squat/dl as far as I can tell.

Research seems to show that the intent/attempt to move a weight quickly has the same neurological effect as actually moving it quickly - according to Christian Thibideau, anyway Even though I am basically doing submaximal efforts and calling it RE, I’m still trying to throw the weight up, jump with it.

Anyway - it’s working for me so far. When it don’t, I be changing it. Thanks for making me think it through, though.

[quote]Modi wrote:

skidmark, have you tried setting up a box 2" below parallel, starting the motion as though you were going to box squat, but only going to parallel? That might give you the confidence to really sit back more on the free squats. And if you miss the lift, hell you can always sit on the box for a while and think about it…[/quote]

I need a safety squat bar so I can read about proper squat form while I’m sitting on that box.

I’ve got a bad habit of not sticking my chest out while squatting if I do that, I naturally break at the hips. If not, then I break at the knees. The box makes me use my ass as a curb feeler which makes me stick my chest out. If I just start out correctly with chest out, then I will break correctly. I finally “got it” on the 3rd set which was the best one.

[quote]Modi wrote:
another one…[/quote]

Nice deck man!

I plan to build a nice new deck and fence on my house withen the next year, I figure I’ll make the outside all nice before I do anything to the inside.

I better be living somewhere else before I redo the kitchen and bathroom I can’t live without either one like Phill does!

[quote]c. wrote:
Phill wrote:
To many Damn PR’s up there ya WHORES so heres a damn fine work to all of you

Phill

don’t worry, after this weekend you’ll be the biggest whore of them all.

did i just say that?

c.

[/quote]

Ha thanks for the confidence Im at this point hoping to be able to walk for a week after this weekend LOL

Phill

Damn fine work on that deck Bro

[quote]skidmark wrote:
Modi wrote:

skidmark, have you tried setting up a box 2" below parallel, starting the motion as though you were going to box squat, but only going to parallel? That might give you the confidence to really sit back more on the free squats. And if you miss the lift, hell you can always sit on the box for a while and think about it…

I need a safety squat bar so I can read about proper squat form while I’m sitting on that box.

I’ve got a bad habit of not sticking my chest out while squatting if I do that, I naturally break at the hips. If not, then I break at the knees. The box makes me use my ass as a curb feeler which makes me stick my chest out. If I just start out correctly with chest out, then I will break correctly. I finally “got it” on the 3rd set which was the best one.[/quote]

Actually I know it was a joke but if your not sticking chest out etc the SSB may be just what you do need,. It really tries to fold you upper back over and you have to force the chest out and up. Might really help. I hate mine but love the results

Phill

Events July 9th

Technique work today am DAMN glad I did was doing some looking at videos and reading and figured two thing I wanted to try on the log and man I think they really helped. Kept it Uber light today but think I may have added a good few lbs to my log.

#1 on the clean I was pulling the log in lapping it and doing the clean with my elbows tucked TIGHT Im so used to that for most moves. Well that when I fire the hips has my elbows as near the lowest spot and puts a TON of strain in the elbow joint and hence the pain at higher loads. Was looking at some videos and more of a yes pull the log to you gut/chest but flare the elbows Out have them HIGH kind of like and Upright row. Pulled in but up.

Then when I fire the hips get that shrug the elbows arent under that extreme tension like a lever and pop It get under the log once you have it moving Think this may have really helped need more practice but hey.

Second thing on the log. The push I suck need a lot of work But a step in the right direction today. I was breaking at the knee and coming up on my toes some I need to like squatting break at the hip push my butt back and Fire/pop that ting felt good today

Just kept the log at 140 and did a few sets working on these.

Then some tire work the small one just working on my transition trying to get from one flip to the next fast. Sets of 3-5 for a few

Then just chatting and playing around nothing heavy just some curls for the girls etc

I think a very helpful day now just work on house rest and eat do my best this weekend

Phill

Tuesday, 7/10/2007: ME Lower

A. Box Squat
135 x 8
185 x 5
225 x 1
235 x 1
240 x 1
245 x 1 (PR +5 lbs)
250 x 0
250 x 0
225 x 1

B. Deadlift
225 x 5
275 x 1
325 x 1
365 x 1 (PR + 10 lbs)
375 x 1 (PR + 20 lbs)
385 x 1 (PR + 30 lbs)
275 x 3

C. Barbell Hold
315 x 5 sec.
315 x 7 sec.
365 x 4 sec.
405 x 3 sec.
405 x 4 sec.

D. Glute-Ham Raise
BW x 4 x 8

E1. Kneeling Cable Crunch
160 x 4 x 8

E2. Seated Knee-Ups
BW x 4 x 25

This is two days in a row in which I felt like I could have hit a better PR but didn’t quite do it. I’m not sure if I’m just over-estimating myself or what. I thought I hit the 245 fairly easily and probably could have done another 10lbs or so. I don’t think I hit my grove on both of the 250 attempts, so I left it at that. I didn’t feel like missing three times in a row.

So instead of doing deficit deadlifts, I channeled my anger to regular deadlifts. It’s been a month or so since I’ve done regular deadlifts, and in that time, my deficit deadlift has matched my regular deadlift PR of 355.

I figured since I’m hyped up from the missed box squat, I might as well trash my old deadlift PR. Lo and behold, I ended up crushing my old PR by 30lbs. At least there was something good out of the session today.

Hey guys, I was over at the westside-barbell website and was reading through a few articles and come across the one titled EXPLOSIVE LEG POWER.

It talked about the use of band tension and increasing speed, but one thing that stuck out was the use of box jumping.

I was curious if any of you guys have incorperated box jumps or depth jumps in your training?

As a sprinter, I think doing these would help me out a lot.

[quote]Phill wrote:

Actually I know it was a joke but if your not sticking chest out etc the SSB may be just what you do need,. It really tries to fold you upper back over and you have to force the chest out and up. Might really help. I hate mine but love the results

Phill[/quote]

I’d love to get one, because you’re right - it would definitely fix that problem.

[quote]Phill wrote:
Events July 9th

Technique work today am DAMN glad I did was doing some looking at videos and reading and figured two thing I wanted to try on the log and man I think they really helped. Kept it Uber light today but think I may have added a good few lbs to my log.

#1 on the clean I was pulling the log in lapping it and doing the clean with my elbows tucked TIGHT Im so used to that for most moves. Well that when I fire the hips has my elbows as near the lowest spot and puts a TON of strain in the elbow joint and hence the pain at higher loads. Was looking at some videos and more of a yes pull the log to you gut/chest but flare the elbows Out have them HIGH kind of like and Upright row. Pulled in but up.

Then when I fire the hips get that shrug the elbows arent under that extreme tension like a lever and pop It get under the log once you have it moving Think this may have really helped need more practice but hey.

Second thing on the log. The push I suck need a lot of work But a step in the right direction today. I was breaking at the knee and coming up on my toes some I need to like squatting break at the hip push my butt back and Fire/pop that ting felt good today

Just kept the log at 140 and did a few sets working on these.

Then some tire work the small one just working on my transition trying to get from one flip to the next fast. Sets of 3-5 for a few

Then just chatting and playing around nothing heavy just some curls for the girls etc

I think a very helpful day now just work on house rest and eat do my best this weekend

Phill[/quote]

This is the same advice I got the first time I lifted the log.

“KEEP YOUR FUCKING ELBOWS HIGH KALLE!!”

Also when you lap it keep the log out on the knees so you can just ROLL it up the belly dont bring it INTO the lap as than the belly would gets in the way.

For fuck sake you whores !!!

Nice work man thats a HUGE DL jump

Phill

[quote]jthsiao wrote:
Tuesday, 7/10/2007: ME Lower

A. Box Squat
135 x 8
185 x 5
225 x 1
235 x 1
240 x 1
245 x 1 (PR +5 lbs)
250 x 0
250 x 0
225 x 1

B. Deadlift
225 x 5
275 x 1
325 x 1
365 x 1 (PR + 10 lbs)
375 x 1 (PR + 20 lbs)
385 x 1 (PR + 30 lbs)
275 x 3

C. Barbell Hold
315 x 5 sec.
315 x 7 sec.
365 x 4 sec.
405 x 3 sec.
405 x 4 sec.

D. Glute-Ham Raise
BW x 4 x 8

E1. Kneeling Cable Crunch
160 x 4 x 8

E2. Seated Knee-Ups
BW x 4 x 25

This is two days in a row in which I felt like I could have hit a better PR but didn’t quite do it. I’m not sure if I’m just over-estimating myself or what. I thought I hit the 245 fairly easily and probably could have done another 10lbs or so. I don’t think I hit my grove on both of the 250 attempts, so I left it at that. I didn’t feel like missing three times in a row.

So instead of doing deficit deadlifts, I channeled my anger to regular deadlifts. It’s been a month or so since I’ve done regular deadlifts, and in that time, my deficit deadlift has matched my regular deadlift PR of 355.

I figured since I’m hyped up from the missed box squat, I might as well trash my old deadlift PR. Lo and behold, I ended up crushing my old PR by 30lbs. At least there was something good out of the session today.[/quote]

Yes since making the switch to strongman Ive used box Jumps JUST!! the Jump up not down as the way up doesnt muck up he knees that all ready take a beating. It helped my explosiveness for sure and even my fat ass was able to progress quickly to Id have to look its been a few weeks but 40+ inch jump from a stand still

Phill

[quote]xb100 wrote:
Hey guys, I was over at the westside-barbell website and was reading through a few articles and come across the one titled EXPLOSIVE LEG POWER.

It talked about the use of band tension and increasing speed, but one thing that stuck out was the use of box jumping.

I was curious if any of you guys have incorperated box jumps or depth jumps in your training?

As a sprinter, I think doing these would help me out a lot.[/quote]

Thanks man I think today will really help even as close as this weekend and for sure once I get more practice with it. Need to get to a 300+ log for damn sure

Phill

[quote]Kalle wrote:
Phill wrote:
Events July 9th

Technique work today am DAMN glad I did was doing some looking at videos and reading and figured two thing I wanted to try on the log and man I think they really helped. Kept it Uber light today but think I may have added a good few lbs to my log.

#1 on the clean I was pulling the log in lapping it and doing the clean with my elbows tucked TIGHT Im so used to that for most moves. Well that when I fire the hips has my elbows as near the lowest spot and puts a TON of strain in the elbow joint and hence the pain at higher loads. Was looking at some videos and more of a yes pull the log to you gut/chest but flare the elbows Out have them HIGH kind of like and Upright row. Pulled in but up.

Then when I fire the hips get that shrug the elbows arent under that extreme tension like a lever and pop It get under the log once you have it moving Think this may have really helped need more practice but hey.

Second thing on the log. The push I suck need a lot of work But a step in the right direction today. I was breaking at the knee and coming up on my toes some I need to like squatting break at the hip push my butt back and Fire/pop that ting felt good today

Just kept the log at 140 and did a few sets working on these.

Then some tire work the small one just working on my transition trying to get from one flip to the next fast. Sets of 3-5 for a few

Then just chatting and playing around nothing heavy just some curls for the girls etc

I think a very helpful day now just work on house rest and eat do my best this weekend

Phill

This is the same advice I got the first time I lifted the log.

“KEEP YOUR FUCKING ELBOWS HIGH KALLE!!”

Also when you lap it keep the log out on the knees so you can just ROLL it up the belly dont bring it INTO the lap as than the belly would gets in the way.[/quote]