Westside/PLing Training Thread

Training Powerlifting
5471

[quote]
the answer is simple…yes and no. I do these at the end of my full ROM squat. they are great for developing power out of the bottom and really teaching yourself to stay tight in the hole BUT… when using a box you should relax the hip flexors once you sit on the box.

you can’t do that when just using the pins. you can easily make a box out of 2 x 4’s and some plywood or if your gym has the aerobic steppers- you can stack them. I think both box squats and using the pins are an excellennt variation.

good luck.
meat

what is 2 x 4’s

I currently use this 6 max effort exercises for my max effort Squat day. I change my exercises every two weeks and hence a twelve week cycle

1 Summo Deadlifts
2 Deadlifts off Mats
3 Deadlifts
4 Front Squat
5 To be determined
6 Squats just below the parallel

For No 5 max effort exercise I am deliberating this three options

a. Full ROM squat
b Low Squat using the lower pins which I just described
c Box Squats

Of course if I really want, I can create a box, it is just that I am not sure the gym would allow me to keep box in the gym. Last time I wanted to keep some equipment in the gym for plyometrics and they would not permit it and hence I was thinking of either using options a or b as my max effort exercise. What do you think ?

teotjunk

2x4 = American slang for a 2 inch by 4 inch by whatever length wooden board.

I do something similar to you - a bottom’s up squat where I take the weight from the pins at parallel depth and stand up with the weight. A static start, no stretch reflex involved. It’s a good predictor for my power squat.

No reason not to cycle in the full ROM squat for max effort if you’re not competing. I do. It’s a nice change up now and then.[/quote]

So my option b, a bottom 's up low squat can be used as a max effort exercise ?

teotjunk

5472

[quote]teotjunk wrote:

the answer is simple…yes and no. I do these at the end of my full ROM squat. they are great for developing power out of the bottom and really teaching yourself to stay tight in the hole BUT… when using a box you should relax the hip flexors once you sit on the box.

you can’t do that when just using the pins. you can easily make a box out of 2 x 4’s and some plywood or if your gym has the aerobic steppers- you can stack them. I think both box squats and using the pins are an excellennt variation.

good luck.
meat

what is 2 x 4’s

I currently use this 6 max effort exercises for my max effort Squat day. I change my exercises every two weeks and hence a twelve week cycle

1 Summo Deadlifts
2 Deadlifts off Mats
3 Deadlifts
4 Front Squat
5 To be determined
6 Squats just below the parallel

For No 5 max effort exercise I am deliberating this three options

a. Full ROM squat
b Low Squat using the lower pins which I just described
c Box Squats

Of course if I really want, I can create a box, it is just that I am not sure the gym would allow me to keep box in the gym. Last time I wanted to keep some equipment in the gym for plyometrics and they would not permit it and hence I was thinking of either using options a or b as my max effort exercise. What do you think ?

teotjunk

2x4 = American slang for a 2 inch by 4 inch by whatever length wooden board.

I do something similar to you - a bottom’s up squat where I take the weight from the pins at parallel depth and stand up with the weight. A static start, no stretch reflex involved. It’s a good predictor for my power squat.

No reason not to cycle in the full ROM squat for max effort if you’re not competing. I do. It’s a nice change up now and then.

So my option b, a bottom 's up low squat can be used as a max effort exercise ?

teotjunk[/quote]

Sure. I’ll be doing that today for ME lower in fact.

5473

Friday 07/06/07

ME Bench

Warm-up: light shoulder rotations

Cambered bar bench press
bar x 10
95 x 8
135 x 5
185 x 5
225 x 3 (started to feel it in chest, shoulders so add 1-board)
255 x 3
275 x 3
295 x 3 (PR, only because I never do these)

Reverse cambered bench press

295 x 3
325 x 3
345 x 3
365 x 3
375 x 3 (30 lb PR)

Fat bar rack lockouts

315 x 3
365 x 3
405 x 3
435 x 3 (actually 460 since bar weighs 70#, which would also be a PR)

Notes: Mother-in-law came up for the weekend so had to train earlier than usual. I didn’t really know what I was going to do when I got there, so decided on cambered bar since my bottom end doesn’t get as much work. Also, it’s early in the cycle and I never use the cambered bar so my shoulders shouldn’t get too much stress.

Had to add a board to keep the bar from going the extra 4 inches because it started to stretch me out a little too much. For all you raw guys w/o bad shoulder or chest problems, these are great for strength off the bottom. The set w/ 295 was tougher than I thought it would be since I have no trouble getting 3 reps w/ a power bar.

I was supposed to use a 4-board, but I only had the 1-board with me. Decided to keep the cambered bar and turn it upside down and lower to the 1-board, basically works out to the same distance. I was happy with the 30# PR, and by the way it felt I could’ve handled a little more. However, the cambered bar is a little thinner so it puts a lot of stress on the wrists.

All the good power bars were taken so used the fattie instead. These all felt good and only the last set with 460 was tough, since the bar is so damn hard to grip (no knurling and 2" in diameter). Good day overall, basically turned into a PR whorefest. Will do some band work for tris and lats later tonight.

5474

[quote]teotjunk wrote:
maraudermeat wrote:

you can’t do that when just using the pins. you can easily make a box out of 2 x 4’s and some plywood or if your gym has the aerobic steppers- you can stack them. I think both box squats and using the pins are an excellennt variation.

good luck.
meat

teotjunk wrote:
what is 2 x 4’s
[/quote]

This is a pic of a box made of 4 Layers of 2x4s. The box is upside down. The top actually has a sheet of plywood.

This box would be stacked with other boxes to give different heights.

The box is 24" square - or 61 cm square.

5475

[quote]novaeer wrote:
Friday 07/06/07

ME Bench

Warm-up: light shoulder rotations

Cambered bar bench press
bar x 10
95 x 8
135 x 5
185 x 5
225 x 3 (started to feel it in chest, shoulders so add 1-board)
255 x 3
275 x 3
295 x 3 (PR, only because I never do these)

Reverse cambered bench press

295 x 3
325 x 3
345 x 3
365 x 3
375 x 3 (30 lb PR)

Fat bar rack lockouts

315 x 3
365 x 3
405 x 3
435 x 3 (actually 460 since bar weighs 70#, which would also be a PR)

Notes: Mother-in-law came up for the weekend so had to train earlier than usual. I didn’t really know what I was going to do when I got there, so decided on cambered bar since my bottom end doesn’t get as much work. Also, it’s early in the cycle and I never use the cambered bar so my shoulders shouldn’t get too much stress.

Had to add a board to keep the bar from going the extra 4 inches because it started to stretch me out a little too much. For all you raw guys w/o bad shoulder or chest problems, these are great for strength off the bottom. The set w/ 295 was tougher than I thought it would be since I have no trouble getting 3 reps w/ a power bar.

I was supposed to use a 4-board, but I only had the 1-board with me. Decided to keep the cambered bar and turn it upside down and lower to the 1-board, basically works out to the same distance. I was happy with the 30# PR, and by the way it felt I could’ve handled a little more. However, the cambered bar is a little thinner so it puts a lot of stress on the wrists.

All the good power bars were taken so used the fattie instead. These all felt good and only the last set with 460 was tough, since the bar is so damn hard to grip (no knurling and 2" in diameter). Good day overall, basically turned into a PR whorefest. Will do some band work for tris and lats later tonight.

[/quote]

A PR is a PR. great job!! I’m happy if I hit one in a training session.

meat

5476

[quote]teotjunk wrote:
I currently use this 6 max effort exercises for my max effort Squat day. I change my exercises every two weeks and hence a twelve week cycle

1 Summo Deadlifts
2 Deadlifts off Mats
3 Deadlifts
4 Front Squat
5 To be determined
6 Squats just below the parallel
[/quote]
That looks like a nice list of exercises. I’d suggest not to set the two weeks in stone for each exercise. Depending on your training age, two weeks may not be the right time for you. For someone who is more advanced, he may have to switch every week.

For someone who is less advanced, he may be able to push the same exercise for several weeks and set new PRs along the way, before getting stuck at a weight. So, the general approach is to keep going until you get stuck. You don’t know how many PRs you have in you until you hit your plateau. Then when you hit that point, then switch and do something else.

In addition, I’d suggest focusing more on your squat than your deadlifts. I don’t know how good of a squatter vs. how good of a puller you are. I’m definitely a lot better at pulling than I am squatting, so I’m really hitting my squats hard. However, I’m noticing a pretty good carryover from the squat to the deadlift as my pulling is climbing along with my squat. The revere was not true for me when I focused on pulling before and not squatting.

[quote]teotjunk wrote:
For No 5 max effort exercise I am deliberating this three options

a. Full ROM squat
b Low Squat using the lower pins which I just described
c Box Squats

Of course if I really want, I can create a box, it is just that I am not sure the gym would allow me to keep box in the gym. Last time I wanted to keep some equipment in the gym for plyometrics and they would not permit it and hence I was thinking of either using options a or b as my max effort exercise. What do you think ?
[/quote]
I’d second meat’s suggestion with the aerobic steps. They’re a bit more sturdy than you think, unless you’re doing weight in meat’s neighborhood. You can prop those up to the right height using additional supports under the steps so you can control how low to go. It’ll allow you to relax your hips while keep your back and mid-section tight, before exploding up.

Just put the steps in an in-and-out fashion, instead of side-to-side fashion, inside the power rack. You can then sit on the narrow edge of the steps.

5477

Friday, 7/6/2007: RE Lower

A. Good Morning
45 x 8
135 x 23 (PR +8 reps)
135 x 15
135 x 14
135 x 10

B. Front Squat
135 x 5

C. Sumo Deadlift
235 x 5
235 x 5
235 x 5
235 x 5

D. Bulgarian Split Squat
45 x 8
45 x 8
45 x 8
45 x 8

E. Dumbbell Supination Curl
40 x 10
40 x 10
40 x 8
40 x 6

I don’t know what got into me today. The weight for good mornings still felt decent, but I was able to just keep going and going for my RE exercise. I ended up getting a 8-rep PR. I’m definitely happy about that. :slight_smile:

I tried to do some front squats but couldn’t find the happy spot on my shoulders. I kept trying to put the bar back into my throat, damn near choked myself to death, but still no good. Unless I miss something, I may have to come back to this later when I feel adventurous again.

5478


3 boxes

Bottom box is 4 layers of 2x4s
Middle box is 3 layers of 2x4s
Top box is 1 layer of 2x4s

Each box is capped with a layer of plywood and a rubber mat. The bottom of the boxes also have rubber or other anti-skid strips so the boxes won’t slip.

5479

If you’re really lucky, you’re gym will have different height plyo boxes that work as a low box (11") or a high box (15").

That’s some good craftsmanship you have there with the box, though. That’s the funny thing about PLing and strongman training: you can shop for your equipment at Home Depot/Lowe’s/Tractor Supply or even a junkyard.

[quote]4est wrote:
3 boxes

Bottom box is 4 layers of 2x4s
Middle box is 3 layers of 2x4s
Top box is 1 layer of 2x4s

Each box is capped with a layer of plywood and a rubber mat. The bottom of the boxes also have rubber or other anti-skid strips so the boxes won’t slip.[/quote]

5480

[quote]novaeer wrote:
That’s some good craftsmanship you have there with the box, though. That’s the funny thing about PLing and strongman training: you can shop for your equipment at Home Depot/Lowe’s/Tractor Supply or even a junkyard.
[/quote]

They were built by some guy at BB.com and posted in the powerlifting section. I can’t take credit for them.

5481

[quote]jthsiao wrote:
teotjunk
That looks like a nice list of exercises. I’d suggest not to set the two weeks in stone for each exercise. Depending on your training age, two weeks may not be the right time for you. For someone who is more advanced, he may have to switch every week.

For someone who is less advanced, he may be able to push the same exercise for several weeks and set new PRs along the way, before getting stuck at a weight. So, the general approach is to keep going until you get stuck. You don’t know how many PRs you have in you until you hit your plateau. Then when you hit that point, then switch and do something else.

In addition, I’d suggest focusing more on your squat than your deadlifts. I don’t know how good of a squatter vs. how good of a puller you are. I’m definitely a lot better at pulling than I am squatting, so I’m really hitting my squats hard. However, I’m noticing a pretty good carryover from the squat to the deadlift as my pulling is climbing along with my squat. The revere was not true for me when I focused on pulling before and not squatting.
[/quote]

I have done West Side for about 2 years where I utilize a 3 week rotation cycle for my max effort exercises. It is only recently that I switched to a 2 week cycle.

Your point about squat vs deadlift is quite interesting. I noticed for most amateur powerlifters like us, the deadlift is stronger than the squat but for professional powerlifters, the squat is stronger than deadlift. My squat is lagging a bit behind my deadlift but my way of increasing my squat is to to improve my flexibility in my legs. From somwhere I read that the main reason adults can’t squat that much is due to loss of flexibility

teotjunk

5482

[quote]teotjunk wrote:
Your point about squat vs deadlift is quite interesting. I noticed for most amateur powerlifters like us, the deadlift is stronger than the squat but for professional powerlifters, the squat is stronger than deadlift. My squat is lagging a bit behind my deadlift but my way of increasing my squat is to to improve my flexibility in my legs. From somwhere I read that the main reason adults can’t squat that much is due to loss of flexibility
[/quote]
For some people, it may be their flexibility, especially if they weren’t active in their lifestyle. Although that’s not the case for me. I’ve always lived a fairly athletic lifestyle, and I have decent flexibility. However, the sports that I play are very quad dominant (tennis, basketball, softball). My quads have the strength, but my hams are just weak.

While I have no problems going down into the hole, even full ROM ATG, I don’t have the strength to come out of it. What’s sad is that my olympic ATG squat is stronger than my wide-stance powerlifting squat, albeit only by 10lbs, simply because I can cheat and lean forward to use my quads a bit more. So, I’ve been hitting my hams hard and it’s been responding well. :slight_smile:

Another thing with the big time powerlifters is that they can get more out of their squatting briefs than they do with their deadlift gear. And, I think the Westside style is to train for the squat and let the deadlift follow on its own.

For the lesser folks that are not well-trained, the above-mentioned quad dominance and also our natural upper-body dominance would contribute to the bigger deadlift and the lesser squat.

Those are my thoughts anyway. I am by no means an expert, just thought I’d contribute to this conversation. Feel free to tell me I’m wrong. :stuck_out_tongue:

5483

7-4-07 ME Lower Deload

A. 12" Box Squat: 175 x 5, 225 x 3, 275 x 1, 315 x 1,

(90% of 385) 345 x 1, x 1 (absolute grinder!)

B. Dimel Deadlift: 135 x 12, 225 x 10

C. Pullthroughs: 150 x 12, 12

D1) Cable Abs: 110 x 10, 10, 10

D2) Leg Curl: 160 x 6, 6

Done in 40 minutes.

7-5-07 Bench Assistance Deload

A. Speed Bench: 165 x 3, 3, 3, 3, 3

Regular: 225 x 8 (left a few in the tank)

B. Chin Up: BW x 8, 8

C1) Hammer Curl: 35 x 8, 8, 8

C2) Pushdown: 95 x 8, 8, 8

Done in 25 minutes.

Finding that I get much better bench technique when I focus not just on the shoulder blades being squeezed together, but actually PINCHING them together.

This works well for speed work, I don;t know if it will work for Maximal weights. Sounds strange, but there is, for me, a big difference between squeezing the shoulder blades together and pinching them togehter.

stay strong

boom

5484

7/6/07 ME Lower

I donated a pint of blood yesterday and the heat has my bodyweight down to 223 despite increases caloric intake. Despite those two things I felt good going into this session.

A)ME 12" Box Squat
Bar x 8
135 x 3
185 x 3
225 x 3
275 x 3
315 x 1
365 x 1
385 x 1
410 x 1 x 4 (PR)
Removed box, 405 x 1

I got a nosebleed halfway up on the 3rd single w/ 410. That was sweet, and I was able to get it stopped before it was too late to get another single in. That one was a grinder but felt incredibly clean. I stayed tight as hell, spread the shit out of the floor, and waited it out to the top.

B)RDL
135 x 5
335 x 5 ABORT

My low back still couldn’t handle any heavy-ish assistance work. The weight didn’t feel too heavy but I couldn’t hold my arch.

C)Elevated Pistol Squats=BW x 12 x 2

D)Pull-throughs=104 x 15 x 2

NOTES: Apparently being a pint low on my blood supply didn’t hurt me too much. I had some Surge right after I donated, and made sure I ate a lot for the rest of yesterday.

Tomorrow I’ll do some upper body and ab work.

5485

[quote]teotjunk wrote:
So my option b, a bottom 's up low squat can be used as a max effort exercise ?

teotjunk[/quote]

Yes anything can and you will get the benefits meat talked about. But dont think of these as a replacement for a box squat again meat did a great job of saying why?? unlocking of the hip flexors etc.

I would say if they wont let you store anything in there use what they have be it a bench or aerobic steps a stool something

Phill

5486

WHORE!!!

damn fine work bro and simple ass effective exercise choice not damn fluff at ALL in there

Phill

[quote]novaeer wrote:
Friday 07/06/07

ME Bench

Warm-up: light shoulder rotations

Cambered bar bench press
bar x 10
95 x 8
135 x 5
185 x 5
225 x 3 (started to feel it in chest, shoulders so add 1-board)
255 x 3
275 x 3
295 x 3 (PR, only because I never do these)

Reverse cambered bench press

295 x 3
325 x 3
345 x 3
365 x 3
375 x 3 (30 lb PR)

Fat bar rack lockouts

315 x 3
365 x 3
405 x 3
435 x 3 (actually 460 since bar weighs 70#, which would also be a PR)

Notes: Mother-in-law came up for the weekend so had to train earlier than usual. I didn’t really know what I was going to do when I got there, so decided on cambered bar since my bottom end doesn’t get as much work. Also, it’s early in the cycle and I never use the cambered bar so my shoulders shouldn’t get too much stress.

Had to add a board to keep the bar from going the extra 4 inches because it started to stretch me out a little too much. For all you raw guys w/o bad shoulder or chest problems, these are great for strength off the bottom. The set w/ 295 was tougher than I thought it would be since I have no trouble getting 3 reps w/ a power bar.

I was supposed to use a 4-board, but I only had the 1-board with me. Decided to keep the cambered bar and turn it upside down and lower to the 1-board, basically works out to the same distance. I was happy with the 30# PR, and by the way it felt I could’ve handled a little more. However, the cambered bar is a little thinner so it puts a lot of stress on the wrists.

All the good power bars were taken so used the fattie instead. These all felt good and only the last set with 460 was tough, since the bar is so damn hard to grip (no knurling and 2" in diameter). Good day overall, basically turned into a PR whorefest. Will do some band work for tris and lats later tonight.

[/quote]

5487

Nice work and while a bloody nose isnt a goal it sure as hell prove you strained today which is the goal work damn hard

Good work

Phill

quote]Norweige wrote:
7/6/07 ME Lower

I donated a pint of blood yesterday and the heat has my bodyweight down to 223 despite increases caloric intake. Despite those two things I felt good going into this session.

A)ME 12" Box Squat
Bar x 8
135 x 3
185 x 3
225 x 3
275 x 3
315 x 1
365 x 1
385 x 1
410 x 1 x 4 (PR)
Removed box, 405 x 1

I got a nosebleed halfway up on the 3rd single w/ 410. That was sweet, and I was able to get it stopped before it was too late to get another single in. That one was a grinder but felt incredibly clean. I stayed tight as hell, spread the shit out of the floor, and waited it out to the top.

B)RDL
135 x 5
335 x 5 ABORT

My low back still couldn’t handle any heavy-ish assistance work. The weight didn’t feel too heavy but I couldn’t hold my arch.

C)Elevated Pistol Squats=BW x 12 x 2

D)Pull-throughs=104 x 15 x 2

NOTES: Apparently being a pint low on my blood supply didn’t hurt me too much. I had some Surge right after I donated, and made sure I ate a lot for the rest of yesterday.

Tomorrow I’ll do some upper body and ab work.[/quote]

5488

Can someone help me out with the difference between a good morning with an arched back and a good morning with a rounded back…I am guessing that the rounded back is simply neutral, but I don’t want to mess myself up too bad. Any clarification is appreciated.
Thanks!!

5489

[quote]Phill wrote:
Yes anything can and you will get the benefits meat talked about. But dont think of these as a replacement for a box squat again meat did a great job of saying why?? unlocking of the hip flexors etc.

I would say if they wont let you store anything in there use what they have be it a bench or aerobic steps a stool something

Phill[/quote]

I have seen people using a bench and have thought of using it but with using a bench, you can’t go below the parallel and I have always got the impression that main benefits of box squatting accrued from low box squatting

teotjunk

5490

[quote]skidmark wrote:
No reason not to cycle in the full ROM squat for max effort if you’re not competing. I do. It’s a nice change up now and then.[/quote]

By full ROM squat you mean a squat where you squat all the way down ?

teotjunk