Westside/PLing Training Thread

[quote]Phill wrote:
Acc Day just went in and did some stuff. High rep not pushing it, curls for the girls etc…

OK looking for ideas. Someone is giving me 300+ lbs of lead and looking to make something cool and useful to train with any ideas.

I was thinking maybe a power stair weight?? Not sore

Oh and all ready got suggested getting a telephone pole and making a 40 foot pencil LOL

Phill[/quote]

i would make a large vault that you can get into and lock from the inside. that way when Lex shows up with the Kryptonite, you will be safe.

anyone… anyone…

meat

[quote]Dre Cappa wrote:
Not trying to argue with you guys here, but the 5x5 can work for anyone, it is all on how you set it up. You can do a straight weight 5x5, or you can do five sets where you shoot for a top set of 5 on the fifth set. Yes, for someone of Meat’s strength level he probably wouldn’t try to do a linear version of the program. But I’ve seen other powerlifters with great numbers do 5x5 cycles throughout the year, and have great success.

The thing I like about it is it’s easy for me to track how much volume and work I am doing and can monitor my progress that way.

Meat, try giving the 5x5 a chance for 4-5 weeks total, then drop down to a 3x3 for 3-4 weeks. When you go back to the 5x5 the second time, you’ll be much stronger.

Then again, to each his own. If you don’t like training a particular way, you might not put your heart into. Good luck either way you go!

-Dre
skidmark wrote:

I’m not sure that the 5x5 protocol is appropriate for guys working at the poundages you use. It’s more for weaker folks trying to develop strength rather than people who already have it. The volume is just too much for the body otherwise. Professor X seems to use a pyramiding 5x5 sort of protocol. That didn’t work so well for me, but might do well for you.

[/quote]

Dre I’m sure that the program is a good one but you have to understand that I’m a lazy bastard. I don’t like feeling so beat after the first movement. You and Modi have made great progress on it. I think I respond better to pyramiding up to a heavy single or double and then hitting volume on my accessory movements. I’m going to give 3x3 a try.

thanks for the concern though, but I’m fat, lazy and a little slow in the head.
meat

Hey, here’s an exciting development.

After yesterday’s disaster on Bench (390xmissx3 which is a PR by the way for most misses at the same weight), I seem to have developed a beautiful stretch mark on my left pec. It’s a good 3-4 inches long and probably 3/4 of an inch at it’s widest point.

Yup, just thought I’d share that with y’all. Now back to the regularly scheduled thread…

[quote]Modi wrote:
Hey, here’s an exciting development.

After yesterday’s disaster on Bench (390xmissx3 which is a PR by the way for most misses at the same weight), I seem to have developed a beautiful stretch mark on my left pec. It’s a good 3-4 inches long and probably 3/4 of an inch at it’s widest point.

Yup, just thought I’d share that with y’all. Now back to the regularly scheduled thread…
[/quote]

Nice. Gotta love the stretch marks. I got 'em on my inner thighs and right at the junction of my pec and anterior delt on both sides but nothing that big.

I feel you on that one, Meat. When I first started the 5x5 my conditioning was terrible. I wasn’t used to all the repetitions. I think I have made such great progress on the 5x5 is because it gives me 3 days a week where I am focusing on the full range lifts. This has greatly helped my technique as well. Some guys do better with a more ME type approach. Others like Jack Reape have proven the efficacy of a higher rep approach. I seem to be responding better to a more volume-oriented approach.

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
Dre Cappa wrote:
Not trying to argue with you guys here, but the 5x5 can work for anyone, it is all on how you set it up. You can do a straight weight 5x5, or you can do five sets where you shoot for a top set of 5 on the fifth set. Yes, for someone of Meat’s strength level he probably wouldn’t try to do a linear version of the program. But I’ve seen other powerlifters with great numbers do 5x5 cycles throughout the year, and have great success.

The thing I like about it is it’s easy for me to track how much volume and work I am doing and can monitor my progress that way.

Meat, try giving the 5x5 a chance for 4-5 weeks total, then drop down to a 3x3 for 3-4 weeks. When you go back to the 5x5 the second time, you’ll be much stronger.

Then again, to each his own. If you don’t like training a particular way, you might not put your heart into. Good luck either way you go!

-Dre
skidmark wrote:

I’m not sure that the 5x5 protocol is appropriate for guys working at the poundages you use. It’s more for weaker folks trying to develop strength rather than people who already have it. The volume is just too much for the body otherwise. Professor X seems to use a pyramiding 5x5 sort of protocol. That didn’t work so well for me, but might do well for you.

Dre I’m sure that the program is a good one but you have to understand that I’m a lazy bastard. I don’t like feeling so beat after the first movement. You and Modi have made great progress on it. I think I respond better to pyramiding up to a heavy single or double and then hitting volume on my accessory movements. I’m going to give 3x3 a try.

thanks for the concern though, but I’m fat, lazy and a little slow in the head.
meat

[/quote]

Chris Mason of EFS is an adherent to the 5x5 protocol, and he’s a pretty strong dude (I guess that’s how he gets the nickname Ox). A friend of mine occasionally trains with him and his crew. During offseason and raw cycles, Chris uses the 5x5 on the primary ME upper and lower body movements and maintains the typical DE set/rep scheme. Once his meet training kicks in, he dumps 5x5 for more traditional 3 and 1RM.

About a year or so ago I tried following a 5x5 regimen and managed some pretty decent strength gains for the first month. However, I was far less cerebral when it came to setting up my programs/rotating exercises and I soon became so overtrained that I could barely sleep at night. It wasn’t the program’s fault - it was clearly mine for not thinking things through better. After recup’ing from some nagging injuries that arose from the overtraing, I started following a Westside template and after customizing it to my own needs (mainly DLing more frequently), I have found it to be the best for me.

[quote]Dre Cappa wrote:
Not trying to argue with you guys here, but the 5x5 can work for anyone, it is all on how you set it up. You can do a straight weight 5x5, or you can do five sets where you shoot for a top set of 5 on the fifth set. Yes, for someone of Meat’s strength level he probably wouldn’t try to do a linear version of the program. But I’ve seen other powerlifters with great numbers do 5x5 cycles throughout the year, and have great success.

The thing I like about it is it’s easy for me to track how much volume and work I am doing and can monitor my progress that way.

Meat, try giving the 5x5 a chance for 4-5 weeks total, then drop down to a 3x3 for 3-4 weeks. When you go back to the 5x5 the second time, you’ll be much stronger.

Then again, to each his own. If you don’t like training a particular way, you might not put your heart into. Good luck either way you go!

-Dre

[quote]Modi wrote:
Haha, Phill you stole my training for the day.

I decided not to squat again today to make one more run at a heavy DL tomorrow before my down week. Also, knees have been a bit sore since Box Squats and Front Squats on Monday, so I’ve been doing some 20 rep squats with just the bar, 50 rep light leg extensions, and foam rolling the quads as well.

06/28/07 - Curls for Girls

A) EZ Curl
+30x10
+50x10
+70x10
+90x10
+110x10 (last 4 cheat)
drop set…
+130x6 (last 2 cheat)
+100x5
+50x10

B) DB Hammer Curl Pyramid (30sec between sets)
30x8
40x8
50x6
60x6
50x6
40x8
30x8

C) EZ Reverse Curl
+50x12
+50x12
+50x20 (good song)

D) DB Supinating Curl
drop set…
40x15
25x15,6,4

Ahahaha Beach Workout! My bi’s felt like balloons after this workout. 25 minutes in and out.[/quote]

Ha manm mine was WAY worse looked like a typical gym, goer bouncing from machine to machine just reppin shit out baby at 1/2 intensity dont think I missed one machine then LOTS of curls etc and fun with the high low pulley. LOL

This day I really do think helps though nice little mental break and gives some recovery

Phill

6-28-07 Bench Assistance

A. Incline DB Press: 75 x 8, 95 x 6, 110 x 4, x 4 (def rep and weight PR here)
85 x 5

B1) Push Press: 135 x 4, 185 x 4, 4 Military Press: 135 x 5

B2) Chin Up with Straps: BW x 8, 8, 6
Face Pull: 80 x 10, 10

Four Sets of Tri Pushdown
2 sets Curls, 2 sets hammer curls

NOTES: Took one hour–I was moving slowly today. That’s to be expected after rack pulling 550 for the first time.

Happy with the incline DB work, looking forward to some rest and food.

Stay strong

boom

[quote]Phill wrote:
Nice work Bro

How long are those pauses?? Man they really are killer and will help all round strenght and teach you how to stay TIGHT in the bottom. I generally shoot for roughly 3-4 seconds which feel like a damn eternity under a heavy load but man kills all the stretch reflex and you have to really keep the back tight etc

Good work

phill

[/quote]

Thanks Phill.

I dunno really. I say “one, one thousand” in my head. But some days it comes out oneonethousand if I got it too heavy. 1 or two seconds. I bring it down slow and tight try to explode off the bottom.

If I can get my bench height adjusted right I want to do some Bottoms up bench to take all the stretch response out of the lift. Seems to be helping squats so why not bench?

My old cage was just right for that, the new one’s pins come down a little too low for me to get under the bar with out stripping off chest hair. Old school Olympic body wax…

[quote]Modi wrote:
Hey, here’s an exciting development.

After yesterday’s disaster on Bench (390xmissx3 which is a PR by the way for most misses at the same weight), I seem to have developed a beautiful stretch mark on my left pec. It’s a good 3-4 inches long and probably 3/4 of an inch at it’s widest point.

Yup, just thought I’d share that with y’all. Now back to the regularly scheduled thread…
[/quote]

you should tattoo some stitches on that baby.

[quote]Phill wrote:
elliotnewman1 wrote:
Hi everyone, not posted on here for a couple of weeks…not found the time. Looks like everyone is progressing, keep the PR’s coming!

I finally got chains involved in my training, (finding 5/8" chain was harder than i thought). Was well worth it though. From the very first session i used them i felt quicker.

Today i hit 270 on a 2 board press with one set of chains.

I’ll be using the chains tomorrow for the first time on DE Lower. Should be interesting to see what they do for speed squats and pulls. They certainly helped my acceleration on speed bench.

How do you guys cycle your training between chains, bands and without. I kinda figured that once you start using chains and bands you would rarely do speed work without one or the other. You may as well overload the top of the lift especially if it speeds you up.

I watched the Reactive method video from Westside and Louie Simmons does seem to imply chains and bands are rotated every 3 weeks. There is no mention of getting rid of them both. Any comments?

Elliot

Honestly I dont use them much occasional bands I use them a lot for pre/rehab and acc. work and have for a change on ME work speed work. Like them for dynamic Box squats just they keep the bar and you down do to killing the momentum.

But thats about it and dont think any one currently training here uses them much. There a tool but not really needed IMO

Phill

[/quote]

Thanks for the reply Phil, im gona stick with them, because so far they seem to do what they are designed for, to accomodate resistance. Used them today for speed squats and pulls and the speed on my pulls was noticably faster. (using the same bar weight as usual).

[quote]Modi wrote:
Hey, here’s an exciting development.

After yesterday’s disaster on Bench (390xmissx3 which is a PR by the way for most misses at the same weight), I seem to have developed a beautiful stretch mark on my left pec. It’s a good 3-4 inches long and probably 3/4 of an inch at it’s widest point.

Yup, just thought I’d share that with y’all. Now back to the regularly scheduled thread…
[/quote]

Nice! I just got a couple pretty fat ones on my stomach last week! Its like I had a baby or something. It was confusing me at first since I have lost a few pounds lately, but I think it was from using my belt during farmers walks and box squats last week, lots of abdominal pressure… Oh well.

Elliot,

I phase in bands and chains on a lot of my dynamic effort work on bench, squat and deadlift. Bands, in particular, have been one of the best things I’ve ever used for boosting my squat numbers.

Chains are OK for the squat, especially when trying to break in equipment, but bands are far superior for DE work in my opinion. Phil is right that they are nothing more than a tool in one’s PL toolbox, but they’re a pretty useful tool and can push your numbers up IF YOU USE THEM CORRECTLY.

On DE squat day, I use a 3 week wave of 50,52.5,55% bar weight plus average band on each side and hit that 3 consecutive rotations then pull the bands off the bar the last three weeks of a cycle so I get a feel for actual weight, not the fictional weight of band tension + plates. Bands (chains, too) can kill your low-end strength and they can make you unstable. Just watch videos on youtube of guys squatting at a meet; if someone looks shaky as hell at the top they probably used bands the whole training cycle, which is a bad, bad idea.

For “fun” I did use one three-week cycle with a heavy and light band on each side with less bar weight; it was a nice change of pace because using that level of tension forces you to explode or your ass is going to get planted as the tension starts to kick in.

On the third week of this, I worked up to a set using that band combo plus 295 or so in bar weight. My head felt like it was going to pop when I was ready to rack the weight.

For the bench, I alternate between bands and straight weight when I’m up for a DE day. If I use bands more than one week at a time on speed bench, my elbows and shoulders will be toast. I’m a big advocate of the floor press and I’ll occasionally put on mini bands for ME bench.

If you double-loop then double the bands over the bar, the tension stays on enough at the bottom and makes for a really strong lockout. You have to push hard or the bar will smash you.

On the deadlift, going against bands is probably one of the best bottom and top end strength builders out there. It works the bottom because it forces you to accelerate to outrun the tension and it develops the lockout because the band tension is so high at the top (~220 lbs w/ minis).

I haven’t used chains on DL, but one of my training partners has and he loves it because they don’t lock you into a motion like bands do. On the DL, you may want to lessen your bar weight if you do use chains or bands (a lot with bands), especially if your bar speed goes to shit.

Just my $0.02 worth.

[quote]elliotnewman1 wrote:

Thanks for the reply Phil, im gona stick with them, because so far they seem to do what they are designed for, to accomodate resistance. Used them today for speed squats and pulls and the speed on my pulls was noticably faster. (using the same bar weight as usual).

[/quote]

Nice post, Novaeer. It’s good to hear others’ experiences with the tools.

I started out using bands when I switched to my quasi Westside template. I’ve since dropped them in favor of RE work to get my base strength up, but I saw my biggest jump in the squat while using them and I’ll be cycling them in again after a while.

Never used them much for deadlift as my cage setup caused the band tension to kick in late and too strong. Just about yanked the bar out of my hands. I should try again with some lesser bands.

06/29/07 - DL (ME)

A) Deadlift (Conventional)
barx10
135x10
225x5
315x5
405x3
525x1
600x1!! (PR +15lbs)

B) Natural GHR on Seated Calf Machine
x8
x8
x8

C) T-Bar Rows (5x5)
90x6
135x5
205x5x5! (PR +15lbs)

D) Rear Delts
25x12
35x12
40x8 (form going to shit)

Hell Yeah! Ok, I’m pretty happy with today’s pull. I knew I had more in me after hitting a 3RM PR last week followed by 585. 600 came up fast until about mid thigh. After that it was one of those grinds that leaves you a bit groggy for the rest of the day. Today was a Max Max pull. I don’t think I had another 5lbs in me, but 600 feels damned good. Nice way to end a long training cycle.

T-Bar Row PR was just icing on the cake.

Tomorrow should be a DE Bench day. If I’m feeling good I might just hit a couple of speed sets and then rep out 315 for a few sets.

[quote]Modi wrote:
06/29/07 - DL (ME)

A) Deadlift (Conventional)
600x1!! (PR +15lbs)

C) T-Bar Rows (5x5)
205x5x5! (PR +15lbs)
[/quote]
The whore is back! Nice lifts Modi! Way to hit that 600!

[quote]Modi wrote:
06/29/07 - DL (ME)

A) Deadlift (Conventional)
barx10
135x10
225x5
315x5
405x3
525x1
600x1!! (PR +15lbs)

B) Natural GHR on Seated Calf Machine
x8
x8
x8

C) T-Bar Rows (5x5)
90x6
135x5
205x5x5! (PR +15lbs)

D) Rear Delts
25x12
35x12
40x8 (form going to shit)

Hell Yeah! Ok, I’m pretty happy with today’s pull. I knew I had more in me after hitting a 3RM PR last week followed by 585. 600 came up fast until about mid thigh. After that it was one of those grinds that leaves you a bit groggy for the rest of the day. Today was a Max Max pull. I don’t think I had another 5lbs in me, but 600 feels damned good. Nice way to end a long training cycle.

T-Bar Row PR was just icing on the cake.

Tomorrow should be a DE Bench day. If I’m feeling good I might just hit a couple of speed sets and then rep out 315 for a few sets.[/quote]

great job Modi!!! I knew you would do it. I remember when i hit 600 the first time. It’s an awesome feeling. Now it’s time to move on to 700. I bet you did it completely raw as well… no belt. you make me sick:)

meat

[quote]Modi wrote:
06/29/07 - DL (ME)

A) Deadlift (Conventional)
barx10
135x10
225x5
315x5
405x3
525x1
600x1!! (PR +15lbs)

B) Natural GHR on Seated Calf Machine
x8
x8
x8

C) T-Bar Rows (5x5)
90x6
135x5
205x5x5! (PR +15lbs)

D) Rear Delts
25x12
35x12
40x8 (form going to shit)

Hell Yeah! Ok, I’m pretty happy with today’s pull. I knew I had more in me after hitting a 3RM PR last week followed by 585. 600 came up fast until about mid thigh. After that it was one of those grinds that leaves you a bit groggy for the rest of the day. Today was a Max Max pull. I don’t think I had another 5lbs in me, but 600 feels damned good. Nice way to end a long training cycle.

T-Bar Row PR was just icing on the cake.

Tomorrow should be a DE Bench day. If I’m feeling good I might just hit a couple of speed sets and then rep out 315 for a few sets.[/quote]

Excellent pull Modi! That’s gotta feel good. Congrats.

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
great job Modi!!! I knew you would do it. I remember when i hit 600 the first time. It’s an awesome feeling. Now it’s time to move on to 700. I bet you did it completely raw as well… no belt. you make me sick:)

meat
[/quote]
Thanks Meat, hitting 600 gave me a real feeling of strength today. My original goal was to hit 575 by the end of the year, then I upped it to 600 a few weeks ago. Time for a new goal…

You’re right, I didn’t use a belt. Also no chalk, since my gym doesn’t allow it. I just keep a bag of pitcher’s rosin in my pocket and dust my hand before each pull. Kinda looks like I’m playing pocket pool before each lift.

[quote]jthsiao wrote:
Modi wrote:
06/29/07 - DL (ME)

A) Deadlift (Conventional)
600x1!! (PR +15lbs)

C) T-Bar Rows (5x5)
205x5x5! (PR +15lbs)

The whore is back! Nice lifts Modi! Way to hit that 600![/quote]

Thanks man. No more whoring for at least a week. I’m turning over a new leaf. Just 2 easy lifts next week, and then I’m heading to Maine to see if I can get up over 250 before the next training cyle.