Westside/PLing Training Thread

Training Powerlifting
3451

Matt, That looked a lot better than the previous video. Did you get your singlet yet?

Deload Day Two

SLDL
135x10
225x6x3

Deficit Dead
135x8x3

Bent Over Row
135x8x3

Low Pull
80x8
140x6x3

I know that depression is a sign of overtraining, but I’m starting to think it’s a sign of undertraining! I feel like a ass, just kinda going through the motions at the gym.

My original plan was to lift MWF this week, but it looks like it will be MTW then off until the following Monday. Monday should be an ME Squat day…we’ll see how the legs feel after Sundays 5 miler.

3452

[quote]Norweige wrote:
…so I did a ME housecleaning/beer brewing session instead.

Keep at it guys.[/quote]

Sweet, what’d you brew?

3453

I watched your bench videos.

Five observations.

  1. I would disagree that you are not holding your arch. Rather, you aren’t keeping your chest up. You have good thoarcic spine flexibility and a pretty decent arch.

  2. When you take the handoff you never set your upper back and lats. In other words, work on using the momentum of the handoff to squeeze the shoulder blades together and pull the shoulder girdle towards the hips by contracting the lats.

  3. You are flaring at the top b/c you are pec and shoulder dominant. In a RAW press, this transfers the load from the triceps to the delts and pecs. As your tricep strength comes up, this will start to go away.

The bottom line, however, is that on a limit lift you will probably still have this tendency and that is OK. Most RAW lifters do.

  1. Learning to set your lats and upper back better will also help with the flare.

  2. Really focus on starting your leg drive at the handout and pushing your chest up to the bar.

You are pretty soft in your hips and in the video where your butt lifts you are only applying leg drive off the chest. Start it while when you lock your elbows and get ready to initiate descent.

Lastly, after the meet of course, spend some time doing medium grip benches as an accesory (thumbs length from the smooth, 3x6-8) with a band wrapped around your wrists. We have found this to be very effective in helping a lifter keep the emphasis on the triceps and learn to set up with the upper back and lats tight.

Good luck at your competition. Feel free to ask me questions, including disagreement. I am interested in dialogue.

3454

[quote]Modi wrote:
Norweige wrote:
…so I did a ME housecleaning/beer brewing session instead.

Keep at it guys.

Sweet, what’d you brew?[/quote]

The “Vienna Lager” from the Mr. Beer homebrew kit, with an extra 1/2 cup of honey and some corn sugar to add some gravity/body. It’s pretty easy to use this set-up vs. actually brewing from scratch. I don’t have the room for that.

This kit allows me to brew about a half-rack’s worth at a time using pre-made extracts and I’ll add some spices and fermentables to make it a little stronger and unique. I’ve made this recipe before and it came out sort of like an amber ale, which my girlfriend likes.

3455

[quote]Norweige wrote:
Modi wrote:
Norweige wrote:
…so I did a ME housecleaning/beer brewing session instead.

Keep at it guys.

Sweet, what’d you brew?

The “Vienna Lager” from the Mr. Beer homebrew kit, with an extra 1/2 cup of honey and some corn sugar to add some gravity/body. It’s pretty easy to use this set-up vs. actually brewing from scratch. I don’t have the room for that.

This kit allows me to brew about a half-rack’s worth at a time using pre-made extracts and I’ll add some spices and fermentables to make it a little stronger and unique. I’ve made this recipe before and it came out sort of like an amber ale, which my girlfriend likes.

[/quote]

Nice, I just brewed a Newcastle Brown Ale clone from extracts. Will bottle it this coming weekend.

3456

[quote]apwsearch wrote:
I watched your bench videos.

Five observations.

  1. I would disagree that you are not holding your arch. Rather, you aren’t keeping your chest up. You have good thoarcic spine flexibility and a pretty decent arch.

  2. When you take the handoff you never set your upper back and lats. In other words, work on using the momentum of the handoff to squeeze the shoulder blades together and pull the shoulder girdle towards the hips by contracting the lats.

  3. You are flaring at the top b/c you are pec and shoulder dominant. In a RAW press, this transfers the load from the triceps to the delts and pecs. As your tricep strength comes up, this will start to go away.

The bottom line, however, is that on a limit lift you will probably still have this tendency and that is OK. Most RAW lifters do.

  1. Learning to set your lats and upper back better will also help with the flare.

  2. Really focus on starting your leg drive at the handout and pushing your chest up to the bar.

You are pretty soft in your hips and in the video where your butt lifts you are only applying leg drive off the chest. Start it while when you lock your elbows and get ready to initiate descent.

Lastly, after the meet of course, spend some time doing medium grip benches as an accesory (thumbs length from the smooth, 3x6-8) with a band wrapped around your wrists. We have found this to be very effective in helping a lifter keep the emphasis on the triceps and learn to set up with the upper back and lats tight.

Good luck at your competition. Feel free to ask me questions, including disagreement. I am interested in dialogue.[/quote]

Thanks for the feedback.

  1. When I said that I wasn’t holding my arch, I meant that I wasn’t effectively transferring the power from my legs through my hips and into my upper body. I believe that I was helped by this by keeping my ass down.

2)I’m not positive I know what you mean by this. I try to set up shoudler blades tight and back together before the handoff and not move them throughout the lift. I feel like that by messing with that I might get flattened or lose stability in the shoulder girdle. Perhaps you can clarify?

3)I see what you mean about the flare. It actually comes in more on the later reps. It’s not very present on the first and then by the third I start flaring earlier. I’ve heard conflicting viewpoints about letting the elbows flare at the top (usually with those who like pressing back to the rack) and keeping the tuck (with those who like pressing in a straight line). The former feels more natural for me and I’d choose this position if I were doing rack lockouts as well.

My tricep work only really comes in the form of full ROM compound lifts. I haven’t done any extensions or “isolation” tricep work in a while as I find it helps me recover better and helps the elbows feeling healthy. The exception is band pressdowns for active recovery.

I’ve never really failed on a bench at lockout so I think the majority of my problems are off the chest. If lockout becomes a problem, I’ll worry about it when it does.

  1. Still not sure what you mean about setting the upper back. It’s funny, I was actually almost completely focused on the lower body with the 2nd bench video yet the weight felt quite easy. The elbows have a decent tuck at the bottom I think (or at least I’m bringing the bar low) but you’re probably right in that the lats could be more involved. I might try to get my spotter to call “belly up” as well to try and get this ingrained into my technique.

I did a close grip cycle for a few weeks and it’s interesting, when I came back to regular grip, I couldn’t get any tuck or lat involvement for shit. I might give it a try again though.

Thanks for the input.

-Matt

Oh and Modi, I’m about to order the singlet from Titan right now. I called House of Pain earlier in the week but they were all screwed up.

3457

[quote]4est wrote:
Moday 4-16-07

Prehab

Shoulder Horn 15lbs - 2 x 12
#2 Band Presses - 30
8lb Medicine Ball tosses - 30
Pro Grip Face Pulls 40lbs - 2 x 12

ME Bench

BP
135 x 10
185 x 3
205 x 2
225 x 1
240 x 1 *15 lb. PR

Floor Presses
95 x 5
95 x 3
95 x 5 * 5 lbs. PR

Rack Rail Pullups 2 x 10 - felt good

Face Down Incline DB Rows
55 x 10
55 x 8
felt good

Gimpler - moved to Thurs and Sat only

BTW, last week I managed to toss the medicine ball into a nice graceful arch drirectly onto my water bottle. It exploded as if shot with a high powered rifle. :wink:
[/quote]

Ha nice shot

hell of a PR br 15 lbs is huge!!

Phill

3458

RE Upper Deloading

Warmup

OHS Standing
barx8
95x8
135x5
155x5
185x2 PR
175x2
155x2

Bent Over Row
135x8
225x5
245x5
275x4
225x8

Haven’t done these in months.

DB Bench
50x10
75x10
100x5
120x7
100x10

Curls

Face pulls

Lateral raises

3459

I’d first off like to say, good benching to 4est and Matt.

Second, I’ve got a couple issues/ questions I’m going to post about.

I evidently have a small pec tear. I’ve had a red line at my arm pit for a bit, and it hasn’t gone away. When I flex my right pec, there is a definite scallop area where the muscle tore. Can’t tell much from looking, but you can feel it compared to the left.

I have a doctors appointment thursday anyhow, but I’ve been working out with it for quite some time without any issues, however, I’m worried having a small tear predisposes me for something worse.

I’m also considering giving a new split a try for a month or so:

T: ME Bench
W/Th: Squat
F: Jerks + RE Bench
Sun: Cleans + Deads

There would obviously be some Posterior chain work on squat day and possibly squatting, probably front, on dead day. The dead would also not always be full range. Probably sometihng like conventional, rdl, pins sumo, pins, rdl, conventional …

Any thoughts?

3460

after readin about all this benching i decided to bench to day…first serious bench workout in quite a while…at least going over 225

  1. bench- 1358,8 1855 2253 2751 real fast went for 305 got it but i guess i was strugglin a lil bit and the spotter grabbed early…would have been a pr since i dont really bench… oh well…then did 225 for 12…pretty funny to watch since i’m slow as hell off the chest…but if i can grind it a few inches it starts moving…guess thats where the OH work/ lockout pays off…nice work everyone else
3461

[quote]gags wrote:
after readin about all this benching i decided to bench to day…first serious bench workout in quite a while…at least going over 225

  1. bench- 1358,8 1855 2253 2751 real fast went for 305 got it but i guess i was strugglin a lil bit and the spotter grabbed early…would have been a pr since i dont really bench… oh well…then did 225 for 12…pretty funny to watch since i’m slow as hell off the chest…but if i can grind it a few inches it starts moving…guess thats where the OH work/ lockout pays off…nice work everyone else[/quote]

Nice work, a (near) PR on your first day back. It must feel good to be back benching.

I gave up overhead work in December after 3-4 months of heavy push pressing led me to serious shoulder pain. 2 months of ART took care of the pain, and since then my pressing has been limited to flat bench.

Doesn’t seem to have effected me yet, DE work seems to have helped my speed off the chest. I’ll find out in a few weeks if that’s really the case.

3462

[quote]ExNole wrote:
I’d first off like to say, good benching to 4est and Matt.

Second, I’ve got a couple issues/ questions I’m going to post about.

I evidently have a small pec tear. I’ve had a red line at my arm pit for a bit, and it hasn’t gone away. When I flex my right pec, there is a definite scallop area where the muscle tore. Can’t tell much from looking, but you can feel it compared to the left.

I have a doctors appointment thursday anyhow, but I’ve been working out with it for quite some time without any issues, however, I’m worried having a small tear predisposes me for something worse.

I’m also considering giving a new split a try for a month or so:

T: ME Bench
W/Th: Squat
F: Jerks + RE Bench
Sun: Cleans + Deads

There would obviously be some Posterior chain work on squat day and possibly squatting, probably front, on dead day. The dead would also not always be full range. Probably sometihng like conventional, rdl, pins sumo, pins, rdl, conventional …

Any thoughts?
[/quote]

In my opinion you are doing way way too much work. If you have a pec tear, that is a definite sign that you are not giving your body enough time to recover. I used to train like you and I was always injured. I never gave myself the time to recover.

Now I train three times a week - one upper, one lower and then a GPP day. Now I feel strong and rested for each workout. I throw in repitition and dynamic work when needed. I’m not saying you have to do what I do, but you definitely need to cut some of it out.

here’s what I think would work for you-
Tues-ME bench with some accessory work or RE work after
Thursday-ME squat/dead- do one squat motion and one dead motion- alternate between emphasizing one or the other every two weeks. finish with some accessory work.

weekend day- GPP/dynamic work or RE work. whatever you feel you need but keep the weight light and work on technique/speed

Most people can’t believe that I only lift two days a week, becuase the same people are in the gym everyday. but I’m the one getting stronger every week…

meat

3463

[quote]Modi wrote:
gags wrote:
after readin about all this benching i decided to bench to day…first serious bench workout in quite a while…at least going over 225

  1. bench- 1358,8 1855 2253 2751 real fast went for 305 got it but i guess i was strugglin a lil bit and the spotter grabbed early…would have been a pr since i dont really bench… oh well…then did 225 for 12…pretty funny to watch since i’m slow as hell off the chest…but if i can grind it a few inches it starts moving…guess thats where the OH work/ lockout pays off…nice work everyone else

Nice work, a (near) PR on your first day back. It must feel good to be back benching.

I gave up overhead work in December after 3-4 months of heavy push pressing led me to serious shoulder pain. 2 months of ART took care of the pain, and since then my pressing has been limited to flat bench.

Doesn’t seem to have effected me yet, DE work seems to have helped my speed off the chest. I’ll find out in a few weeks if that’s really the case.[/quote]

thanks Modi…i will continue to OH press though since i compete in strongman…i just thought i give it lil test to see where i’m at…i usually just do some flat for assistance work…although since my strongman training will be sporadic at best this summer i may try a PL(raw) contest just to see what happens…

3464

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
ExNole wrote:
I’d first off like to say, good benching to 4est and Matt.

Second, I’ve got a couple issues/ questions I’m going to post about.

I evidently have a small pec tear. I’ve had a red line at my arm pit for a bit, and it hasn’t gone away. When I flex my right pec, there is a definite scallop area where the muscle tore. Can’t tell much from looking, but you can feel it compared to the left.

I have a doctors appointment thursday anyhow, but I’ve been working out with it for quite some time without any issues, however, I’m worried having a small tear predisposes me for something worse.

I’m also considering giving a new split a try for a month or so:

T: ME Bench
W/Th: Squat
F: Jerks + RE Bench
Sun: Cleans + Deads

There would obviously be some Posterior chain work on squat day and possibly squatting, probably front, on dead day. The dead would also not always be full range. Probably sometihng like conventional, rdl, pins sumo, pins, rdl, conventional …

Any thoughts?

In my opinion you are doing way way too much work. If you have a pec tear, that is a definite sign that you are not giving your body enough time to recover. I used to train like you and I was always injured. I never gave myself the time to recover.

Now I train three times a week - one upper, one lower and then a GPP day. Now I feel strong and rested for each workout. I throw in repitition and dynamic work when needed. I’m not saying you have to do what I do, but you definitely need to cut some of it out.

here’s what I think would work for you-
Tues-ME bench with some accessory work or RE work after
Thursday-ME squat/dead- do one squat motion and one dead motion- alternate between emphasizing one or the other every two weeks. finish with some accessory work.

weekend day- GPP/dynamic work or RE work. whatever you feel you need but keep the weight light and work on technique/speed

Most people can’t believe that I only lift two days a week, becuase the same people are in the gym everyday. but I’m the one getting stronger every week…

meat

[/quote]

i’m not disagreeing with Meat but i would give your layout a shot just to see what happens…theres so many ways you can set things up…and everyone recovers differently…

one thing i have learned is less is more… and heres another idea for you if your starts to beat you down…1- bench day w/ acces 2- squat dead day 3- oly day or full body DE day…just a thought

3465

[quote]gags wrote:
Modi wrote:
gags wrote:
after readin about all this benching i decided to bench to day…first serious bench workout in quite a while…at least going over 225

  1. bench- 1358,8 1855 2253 2751 real fast went for 305 got it but i guess i was strugglin a lil bit and the spotter grabbed early…would have been a pr since i dont really bench… oh well…then did 225 for 12…pretty funny to watch since i’m slow as hell off the chest…but if i can grind it a few inches it starts moving…guess thats where the OH work/ lockout pays off…nice work everyone else

Nice work, a (near) PR on your first day back. It must feel good to be back benching.

I gave up overhead work in December after 3-4 months of heavy push pressing led me to serious shoulder pain. 2 months of ART took care of the pain, and since then my pressing has been limited to flat bench.

Doesn’t seem to have effected me yet, DE work seems to have helped my speed off the chest. I’ll find out in a few weeks if that’s really the case.

thanks Modi…i will continue to OH press though since i compete in strongman…i just thought i give it lil test to see where i’m at…i usually just do some flat for assistance work…although since my strongman training will be sporadic at best this summer i may try a PL(raw) contest just to see what happens…[/quote]

That’s fair. I wasn’t actually suggesting that you give OH pressing up, I was just relaying the fact that I gave it up (for now at least) to save my shoulders, and it hasn’t effected my bench.

Back in December my chest workouts finished with these sets (no pauses):

12/12 - 325x2, 340xmiss
12/20 - 345x1(PR), 350x1(PR)
12/27 - 300x2**, 300x1** shoulder pain

I actually couldn’t get 300 off the rack without a lift off, and didn’t sleep that night because of the pain. I figured it was about time to get it checked out!

3466

04/18/07 - Deload Day Three

A)Bench Press
185x6
225x6x3

B)Incline DB
65x10
85x10

C)Side Delt Raise
25x10
25x10

D)Rear Delt Raise
25x10
25x10

ESW - 3.5 miles 34min

Today was my last weight day until Monday 4/23. The run sucked. I actually hate running. I used to run. I ran a marathon for a charity on a dare once, but never liked any part of the training. Today reminds me why I don’t run. I don’t mind sprints, I actually enjoy sprinting to the point of nausea, but there’s something about a long slow jog that blows. Somehow my wife talked me into this 5 mile run this weekend. It’s about as anti Powerlifting as it gets.

Ok, I’m done complaining. There’s free beer at the end, so there is light at the end of the tunnel. Hopefully my slow twitch fibers don’t get any ideas and try to take over.

3467

[quote]gags wrote:
maraudermeat wrote:
ExNole wrote:
I’d first off like to say, good benching to 4est and Matt.

Second, I’ve got a couple issues/ questions I’m going to post about.

I evidently have a small pec tear. I’ve had a red line at my arm pit for a bit, and it hasn’t gone away. When I flex my right pec, there is a definite scallop area where the muscle tore. Can’t tell much from looking, but you can feel it compared to the left.

I have a doctors appointment thursday anyhow, but I’ve been working out with it for quite some time without any issues, however, I’m worried having a small tear predisposes me for something worse.

I’m also considering giving a new split a try for a month or so:

T: ME Bench
W/Th: Squat
F: Jerks + RE Bench
Sun: Cleans + Deads

There would obviously be some Posterior chain work on squat day and possibly squatting, probably front, on dead day. The dead would also not always be full range. Probably sometihng like conventional, rdl, pins sumo, pins, rdl, conventional …

Any thoughts?

In my opinion you are doing way way too much work. If you have a pec tear, that is a definite sign that you are not giving your body enough time to recover. I used to train like you and I was always injured. I never gave myself the time to recover.

Now I train three times a week - one upper, one lower and then a GPP day. Now I feel strong and rested for each workout. I throw in repitition and dynamic work when needed. I’m not saying you have to do what I do, but you definitely need to cut some of it out.

here’s what I think would work for you-
Tues-ME bench with some accessory work or RE work after
Thursday-ME squat/dead- do one squat motion and one dead motion- alternate between emphasizing one or the other every two weeks. finish with some accessory work.

weekend day- GPP/dynamic work or RE work. whatever you feel you need but keep the weight light and work on technique/speed

Most people can’t believe that I only lift two days a week, becuase the same people are in the gym everyday. but I’m the one getting stronger every week…

meat

i’m not disagreeing with Meat but i would give your layout a shot just to see what happens…theres so many ways you can set things up…and everyone recovers differently…

one thing i have learned is less is more… and heres another idea for you if your starts to beat you down…1- bench day w/ acces 2- squat dead day 3- oly day or full body DE day…just a thought
[/quote]

Id chime in but hell im the volumeator and sitting here in a cast lol

id say yesa less is more many time and think what im doing now ill try once healed one me upper, lower, a assistance RE day. then a conditioning, gpp, day im feeling fresher etc then when i was doing four relatively hard days

#1 let that pec heal

Phill

3468

ya forgot to add that–go see DR. and let the pec heal first…good advice phil, lol…hows things going with you? sounds decent from what ive read

3469

Excuse my ignorance on this, but isn’t ART recommended a few weeks post injury?

Anyone have the specifics of this?

3470

Thanks for the advice everyone.

Interestingly, the pec has been like this for a while, definitely over a month. I remember it hurting, but not being that bad.

The mark wasn’t getting better, so i got suspicious and it feels like it was beginning to tear.

I’m going to see what the doc has to say tommorow.