Wendler's 5/3/1 Program - Part 3

Training Powerlifting
501

[quote]ssplit wrote:
New year, new spreadsheet. After a few cycles I got annoyed by the more cluttered spreadsheet I used previously, which had BBB assistance percentages and movements, too.

If anyone has ideas to make it even simpler, please post. Here’s the new one.[/quote]

Round it, dude.

eg at B15,

=(ROUNDDOWN((B6*B9)/2.5))*2.5

SO, you’re dividing it by 2.5 kilos, and rounding it down to the nearest whole number. You then multiply it by 2.5 kilos to get a weight that you can actually put on the bar. This is assuming that you have 1.25 kilo plates at your place.

502

[quote]Woppa wrote:

[quote]ssplit wrote:
New year, new spreadsheet. After a few cycles I got annoyed by the more cluttered spreadsheet I used previously, which had BBB assistance percentages and movements, too.

If anyone has ideas to make it even simpler, please post. Here’s the new one.[/quote]

Round it, dude.

eg at B15,

=(ROUNDDOWN((B6*B9)/2.5))*2.5

SO, you’re dividing it by 2.5 kilos, and rounding it down to the nearest whole number. You then multiply it by 2.5 kilos to get a weight that you can actually put on the bar. This is assuming that you have 1.25 kilo plates at your place.[/quote]

Here’s mine for pounds. I don’t think it matters if you round up or down as long as its consistent everywhere.

=ROUNDUP((B11*N)/5,0)*5

The values B11 and N are just the percentage like 0.95 and the working max like 300.

503

[quote]motherofpearl wrote:
why is wsfsb 3 bad when combined with 5/3/1 program. Using the volume from wsfsb and percentages for the main excercise?[/quote]

-This is pretty much DeFranco’s new Built Like a Badass program and what they now do in his gym. ie not a bad idea at all

504

Hey Guys,

Has anyone tried using 5/3/1 as a two-a-day?

I’ve done 5 cycles of it and I’m about to start my last semester of college. I really think this might be the last time in my life I’ll be able to lift twice a day.

I was thinking major lift in the morning plus something like bbb. Then doing more accessory in the evening.

Or it could be major lift plus accessory in the morning. bbb and more accessory at night. That way I’d do the big lift twice in the day.

I should mention my goals are to just get bigger and stronger. I’m thinking lifting twice a day would help more with the bigger part.

Has anyone tried anything similar to this?

What do you think?

505

[quote]sufiandy wrote:

[quote]Woppa wrote:

[quote]ssplit wrote:
New year, new spreadsheet. After a few cycles I got annoyed by the more cluttered spreadsheet I used previously, which had BBB assistance percentages and movements, too.

If anyone has ideas to make it even simpler, please post. Here’s the new one.[/quote]

Round it, dude.

eg at B15,

=(ROUNDDOWN((B6*B9)/2.5))*2.5

SO, you’re dividing it by 2.5 kilos, and rounding it down to the nearest whole number. You then multiply it by 2.5 kilos to get a weight that you can actually put on the bar. This is assuming that you have 1.25 kilo plates at your place.[/quote]

Here’s mine for pounds. I don’t think it matters if you round up or down as long as its consistent everywhere.

=ROUNDUP((B11*N)/5,0)*5

The values B11 and N are just the percentage like 0.95 and the working max like 300.[/quote]

Aye, I agree, but following the principle which seems to run through the ebook of starting a bit lower, I went for the round down option. I seem to remember this guy being a Finnish dude, hence I went for the kilos option (plus his numbers look like kilos).

506

Hey, thanks! I never bothered to figure out how to round it to closest 2.5 kilos, as my Excel skills weren’t that good and figuring it out didn’t seem worth it. But now my calculator is even simpler and requires less use of brains during training.

And in regards to rounding, I round to the closest available weight. But that’s one of the great things about this program: It doesn’t matter. You still end up increasing weight every cycle and the difference in rounding might swing the final set 1 rep in either direction, but who cares?

When I was a bit weaker and using Bill Starr’s 5x5 the proposed 2,5% weekly increase was not always enough to add another 1,25 kilo plate a side.

507

Are you the Finnish version of me? I used 5x5 for a long while and found that, too. You can just use ROUND in excel instead of ROUNDUP or ROUNDDOWN to go to the nearest weight.

508

I use MROUND and round to the nearest 2.5kg for DL, fSQ & BP, I round to the nearest 1.25kg for MP as it is weaker than weak! (Trg max is 55kg after 3 cycles)

509

[quote]Woppa wrote:
Are you the Finnish version of me? I used 5x5 for a long while and found that, too. You can just use ROUND in excel instead of ROUNDUP or ROUNDDOWN to go to the nearest weight.[/quote]

That, or we are both enlightened guys who are able to pick good programs and spot out the flaws and strengths in them.

Boffin: My OHP sucks, too. In my next cycle I’m going to try adding a couple more sets at 65-80% of 1RM, I think I can get away with it as my weights are so low and that the added volume at that % will help to push it up. Perhaps I’ll work up to the heaviest set and then back down.

510

ssplit, I think the BBB gives plenty of volume after the 5/3/1 , especially as I do the last set just shy of failure- so I might do 4x10 with a 1x13 at the end. The small plates (0.625kg) help a lot.

511

Loving this program so far. First cycle is pretty well down, and according to the calculator my max Deadlift has increased 50 pounds. Hopefully the next couple cycles are even half as good.

One thing that’s been throwing me off though is my Chin up numbers. I do them after OHP and BBB OHP, the first session I did them I got something like 14 my first set and around 7 or 8 my fifth set. Role around next week I could hardly get 3. Week three comes along and I could barely get 6 my first set. Any ideas on why this is happening.

I do chins on sunday after my OHP session, and Deadlifts are on monday.

512

So far so good. I started off very conservatively so I wouldn’t stall. My #s from cycles 1 and 2 at a bodyweight of 175-180 lbs.

531 1st cycle 2nd cycle

MP 140x5 140x6(don’t expect this to move alot, so I will take what I can get).
DL 355x2 355x8(big jump I know)
BP 230x2 230x4(not my best, but not bad for taking 1.5 off from flat bench. )
FullBSQ 250x10 255x11(going lighter on this movement for a bit, but feeling real strong)

Currently in my deload week. Looking forward to running one more full cycle before vacation.

513

I just finished cycle 13.

Squat and deadlift have progressed very well and keep progressing. Bench and military press, not so much.

Have any of you mixed things up and are doing something different for those lifts? Yes I have reset already. I do good for a couple cycles then start to slow again.

I’m considering doing SS or Starr for upper body. Thoughts?

514

[quote]TheDudeAbides wrote:
I just finished cycle 13.

Squat and deadlift have progressed very well and keep progressing. Bench and military press, not so much.

Have any of you mixed things up and are doing something different for those lifts? Yes I have reset already. I do good for a couple cycles then start to slow again.

I’m considering doing SS or Starr for upper body. Thoughts?[/quote]

Not sure what you’re assistance work looks like but have you tried adding in more triceps work? I do an extension movement (pushdowns, skull crushers, overhead dumbbell ext., etc) on my military press day and a pressing movement (close grip bench press, floor press, dips, etc) as my second movement on my bench day.

I need the extra triceps work. When I do it, my bench and military press go up. When I don’t do it, I stall.

515

[quote]TheDudeAbides wrote:
I just finished cycle 13.

Squat and deadlift have progressed very well and keep progressing. Bench and military press, not so much.

Have any of you mixed things up and are doing something different for those lifts? Yes I have reset already. I do good for a couple cycles then start to slow again.

I’m considering doing SS or Starr for upper body. Thoughts?[/quote]

I don’t know exactly what cycle I am on, but I’ve been running this for a over a year and made good gains on my deadlift and push press – I don’t use 531 for squatting and I use push press on a log in place of military pressing. However I’ve only put on 10-15 pounds on my bench 1RM in this time.

Bench is always the first lift I struggle to hit reps with and it has always lagged behind the gains in the other lifts. I never thought much about it since things were going so well with all my other lifts. But then I realized just how little my bench had gone up. So, coinciding with the New Year, I reset my maxes and decided to try some new ideas with the bench to try and make better gains.

One thing I’m trying is making sure I get some heavier weights in my hands throughout each cycle. On the week of 3’s, I’m stopping at 3-5 reps depending on how I feel, and then doing some heavier singles. I’ve also added 3 and 4 board presses as assistance mostly just so I can keep lifting with heavier poundages. In addition to this, I’m going to hit a lot more upper back work.

This isn’t anything I’ve read or anything. It’s just something I’m going to test out for the next few months and try to figure the right combination to make better gains.

516

[quote]Built Big wrote:

[quote]TheDudeAbides wrote:
I just finished cycle 13.

Squat and deadlift have progressed very well and keep progressing. Bench and military press, not so much.

Have any of you mixed things up and are doing something different for those lifts? Yes I have reset already. I do good for a couple cycles then start to slow again.

I’m considering doing SS or Starr for upper body. Thoughts?[/quote]

Not sure what you’re assistance work looks like but have you tried adding in more triceps work? I do an extension movement (pushdowns, skull crushers, overhead dumbbell ext., etc) on my military press day and a pressing movement (close grip bench press, floor press, dips, etc) as my second movement on my bench day.

I need the extra triceps work. When I do it, my bench and military press go up. When I don’t do it, I stall.

[/quote]

I do weighted dips on bench day, which ends up being me plus 70-90 lbs for 6-8 reps. I work up to that of course. I also do weighted chins and db rows, all ramped to a top set.

I think you’re on to something though. I just may need more tricep work.

517

[quote]malonetd wrote:

[quote]TheDudeAbides wrote:
I just finished cycle 13.

Squat and deadlift have progressed very well and keep progressing. Bench and military press, not so much.

Have any of you mixed things up and are doing something different for those lifts? Yes I have reset already. I do good for a couple cycles then start to slow again.

I’m considering doing SS or Starr for upper body. Thoughts?[/quote]

I don’t know exactly what cycle I am on, but I’ve been running this for a over a year and made good gains on my deadlift and push press – I don’t use 531 for squatting and I use push press on a log in place of military pressing. However I’ve only put on 10-15 pounds on my bench 1RM in this time.

Bench is always the first lift I struggle to hit reps with and it has always lagged behind the gains in the other lifts. I never thought much about it since things were going so well with all my other lifts. But then I realized just how little my bench had gone up. So, coinciding with the New Year, I reset my maxes and decided to try some new ideas with the bench to try and make better gains.

One thing I’m trying is making sure I get some heavier weights in my hands throughout each cycle. On the week of 3’s, I’m stopping at 3-5 reps depending on how I feel, and then doing some heavier singles. I’ve also added 3 and 4 board presses as assistance mostly just so I can keep lifting with heavier poundages. In addition to this, I’m going to hit a lot more upper back work.

This isn’t anything I’ve read or anything. It’s just something I’m going to test out for the next few months and try to figure the right combination to make better gains.[/quote]

For some reason I thought you have been doing 5/3/1 longer than me. Check your calendar again :wink: So you’re doing more chest/tricep work as well.

How about:

add flat db press on MP day
add seated db press on BP day

I never really get anything out of tricep extensions. I’m interested in doing heavy singles. Typically, I get 10-12 reps on the first wave of both lifts. I might be getting burned out by all the high reps (which has been working for squat and deadlift) Maybe if I explosively do the minimum reps, then do other explosive work. Just thinking.

My best military and bench gains were when I was doing SS, so sets of 5. Perhaps I respond better to lower volume, more frequency.

518

[quote]TheDudeAbides wrote:

[quote]Built Big wrote:

[quote]TheDudeAbides wrote:
I just finished cycle 13.

Squat and deadlift have progressed very well and keep progressing. Bench and military press, not so much.

Have any of you mixed things up and are doing something different for those lifts? Yes I have reset already. I do good for a couple cycles then start to slow again.

I’m considering doing SS or Starr for upper body. Thoughts?[/quote]

Not sure what you’re assistance work looks like but have you tried adding in more triceps work? I do an extension movement (pushdowns, skull crushers, overhead dumbbell ext., etc) on my military press day and a pressing movement (close grip bench press, floor press, dips, etc) as my second movement on my bench day.

I need the extra triceps work. When I do it, my bench and military press go up. When I don’t do it, I stall.

[/quote]

I do weighted dips on bench day, which ends up being me plus 70-90 lbs for 6-8 reps. I work up to that of course. I also do weighted chins and db rows, all ramped to a top set.

I think you’re on to something though. I just may need more tricep work.
[/quote]

My bench day is almost exactly like yours. I keep the 2nd movement fairly heavy and rarely go over 6 to 8 reps. When I do the extension movement on my military press day though, I keep that light. My rep range is anywhere from 12 to 30 depending on the movement. It’s helped my pressing strength considerably.

Maybe give the periodization bible template a try if you have’t already. It might help.

519

Q: Besides “ramping up” towards your all-out work set is it ok to do a supra-maximal walkout to realy prime your CNS. tried it today and during my last workset of squats it fellt like i had nothing on my back.
like this:
----warm-up—
540%
550%
560%
----worksets—
565%
575%
31*150/160% walkout
and BAM 5+*85%

doing good or fucking up?

520

[quote]TheDudeAbides wrote:
I just finished cycle 13.

Squat and deadlift have progressed very well and keep progressing. Bench and military press, not so much.

Have any of you mixed things up and are doing something different for those lifts? Yes I have reset already. I do good for a couple cycles then start to slow again.

I’m considering doing SS or Starr for upper body. Thoughts?[/quote]

I am the same upper body - slow if any improvement, DL+Squat=great,
i am implementing more triceps work - at least one extension like pushdown or ez-bar or something(not kickbacks ;))
and i found that dips dont help my bench! i was doing +100lbs for 5 and my bench didnt move…