Hi guys,
Do you think BBB fits for my needs? Trying to get bigger, stronger and faster. I’m also getting ready for an special forces recruitment. On the off days I’ll sprint, ruck, run or swim. I think cycling the skill work (sprinting, rucking, swimming and running) is the best option.
Stats:
17 YO in a week
Weight 163 lbs. 74 kg
Height 6 feet. 184 cm
Deadlift 319 lbs. 145 kg
Squat 242.5 lbs. 110 kg
Bench 187 lbs. 85 kg
Military 110 lbs. 50 kg
I’m in the gym a few years but only the last year was a serious one.
Summer vacation start next week and I’m ready to bust my ass off training. I’m getting a job so I’ll be able to have more quality food.
Thanks in advance.
Edit: I’ll start my day (everyday) with an 1 hour ruck.
To be honest, I don’t think it is.
You’re a little vague on “elite combat units,” so I can’t say for sure, but that seems to imply some sort of special forces. While strength is a huge determining factor in success in the fleet, the most important factor in success is endurance, both mental and physical. The more muscle you put on now (which is the point of BBB) the more you’ll have to move through all of the running, swimming, rucking, and other physical activities you do.
Strength training 4 times a week leaves only 2-3 days a week for GPP and conditioning, and I would recommend you have the scales tipped in the wrong direction. Look up Stew Smiths workouts and you’ll see the importance of endurance training, and I don’t just mean long runs. I personally would recommend two strength training days, leaving 3-4 days a week to work on GPP.
This was advice given to me by a Marine Scout Sniper-focus on your legs and back. 5/3/1, while a phenomenal program, focuses a lot on the upper body pressing muscles. Your back and legs are going to carry most of the weight, so a program that prioritizes the chest and shoulders will not give you the greatest benefits. There is plenty of time to get big and strong after you get into the fleet-worry about getting through the training now.
Here is something along the lines that I would recommend in place of BBB. It has two strength training days to help you build strength, but most of it is done in the lower rep ranges. Two days are devoted to bodyweight training and more “recruit” style training. That leaves two days to work on your long distance endurance work. So for example,
Monday-Squats, Row, OH Press- Hill Sprints for cardio
Tuesday- Bodyweight workouts w/ mid dist OR intervals*
Wednesday-Long Run
Thursday- Deadlift, Bench, Pull Ups- More Sprints
Friday- Same as Tuesday*
Saturday-Long Ruck March
Sunday-Off
*Ideas for BW workouts. Again, look up Stew Smiths workouts. Push up/crunch/pull up pyramids. MARSOC short card. Marine Corps fartlek runs (GREAT idea that combines interval training and BW workouts). PPPA (push,pull,press,abs). You could start off the workout with a 3 mile run (or so), or you could do 1/4-1 mile intervals in between each time through, or swim laps in between, or bike, or row, or anything. Mix it up, but always push yourself.
Also, feel free to look up the MARSOC workout or the Navy SEAL physical training program to give you more ideas, or a solid workout to follow.
In summary, I think you should do some strength training, to get your absolute strength up. Building muscle isn’t as important, so don’t do BBB. Focus on the strength basics, and do a ton of calisthenics and endurance training. Getting big and super strong can come later.
Best of luck to you.
[quote]breakingiron wrote:
To be honest, I don’t think it is.
You’re a little vague on “elite combat units,” so I can’t say for sure, but that seems to imply some sort of special forces. While strength is a huge determining factor in success in the fleet, the most important factor in success is endurance, both mental and physical. The more muscle you put on now (which is the point of BBB) the more you’ll have to move through all of the running, swimming, rucking, and other physical activities you do.
Strength training 4 times a week leaves only 2-3 days a week for GPP and conditioning, and I would recommend you have the scales tipped in the wrong direction. Look up Stew Smiths workouts and you’ll see the importance of endurance training, and I don’t just mean long runs. I personally would recommend two strength training days, leaving 3-4 days a week to work on GPP.
This was advice given to me by a Marine Scout Sniper-focus on your legs and back. 5/3/1, while a phenomenal program, focuses a lot on the upper body pressing muscles. Your back and legs are going to carry most of the weight, so a program that prioritizes the chest and shoulders will not give you the greatest benefits. There is plenty of time to get big and strong after you get into the fleet-worry about getting through the training now.
Here is something along the lines that I would recommend in place of BBB. It has two strength training days to help you build strength, but most of it is done in the lower rep ranges. Two days are devoted to bodyweight training and more “recruit” style training. That leaves two days to work on your long distance endurance work. So for example,
Monday-Squats, Row, OH Press- Hill Sprints for cardio
Tuesday- Bodyweight workouts w/ mid dist OR intervals*
Wednesday-Long Run
Thursday- Deadlift, Bench, Pull Ups- More Sprints
Friday- Same as Tuesday*
Saturday-Long Ruck March
Sunday-Off
*Ideas for BW workouts. Again, look up Stew Smiths workouts. Push up/crunch/pull up pyramids. MARSOC short card. Marine Corps fartlek runs (GREAT idea that combines interval training and BW workouts). PPPA (push,pull,press,abs). You could start off the workout with a 3 mile run (or so), or you could do 1/4-1 mile intervals in between each time through, or swim laps in between, or bike, or row, or anything. Mix it up, but always push yourself.
Also, feel free to look up the MARSOC workout or the Navy SEAL physical training program to give you more ideas, or a solid workout to follow.
In summary, I think you should do some strength training, to get your absolute strength up. Building muscle isn’t as important, so don’t do BBB. Focus on the strength basics, and do a ton of calisthenics and endurance training. Getting big and super strong can come later.
Best of luck to you.[/quote]
Ye I meant special forces…
I can ruck every morning and sprint on the off days if it’s a better idea. I PMed Alpha yesterday for this, I think he has the most experience with this stuff here. I’m not that concerned about my size because I know that as long as I eat enough while I’m gaining strength I’ll get a bit bigger.
I thought that squatting and deadlifting twice a week combining that with sprinting would be more than enough. I usually train with higher volume than BBB’s so FSL or joker sets may be an option for lower body day.
I’ll do the BW workout with the sprints, I can do them in rounds. Thanks for the help bro!
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I would consider following the advice of the special forces guy you got in this topic
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
I would consider following the advice of the special forces guy you got in this topic
I second that. Just read bbrock171’s posts and they are gold. Especially about the rucking.
You mentioned rucking in the morning, which is actually what I do. I am about to commission in the Marine Corps in a few months, and I’ve already completed OCS. It was my first exposure to rucking and it murdered me; it’s something I really need to work on. So I decided to ruck 2-3 miles every morning during the week, upping the weight every month or so. On top of that, I plan on going for a longer hike once a month on the weekends.
And also, being huge is not in your best interest right now. The user Alpha from those threads is a monster, but I bet he got to those type of workouts and numbers through building his work capacity, then building the strength, from what I’ve learned talking to a handful of SF guys. I think strength training 1-2 times a week is important to improve work capacity in a way, but it shouldn’t be your priority. I bet with a smart plan, you could even get away with strength training once a week, if it was squats, deadlifts, a press, and some heavy pulling.
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
I would consider following the advice of the special forces guy you got in this topic
[quote]breakingiron wrote:
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
I would consider following the advice of the special forces guy you got in this topic
I second that. Just read bbrock171’s posts and they are gold. Especially about the rucking.
You mentioned rucking in the morning, which is actually what I do. I am about to commission in the Marine Corps in a few months, and I’ve already completed OCS. It was my first exposure to rucking and it murdered me; it’s something I really need to work on. So I decided to ruck 2-3 miles every morning during the week, upping the weight every month or so. On top of that, I plan on going for a longer hike once a month on the weekends.
And also, being huge is not in your best interest right now. The user Alpha from those threads is a monster, but I bet he got to those type of workouts and numbers through building his work capacity, then building the strength, from what I’ve learned talking to a handful of SF guys. I think strength training 1-2 times a week is important to improve work capacity in a way, but it shouldn’t be your priority. I bet with a smart plan, you could even get away with strength training once a week, if it was squats, deadlifts, a press, and some heavy pulling. [/quote]
Guys, I opened that thread a few months ago. His answer got me into rucking from the first place. Till’ now I’ve always was on FBW (or TBT, however you want to call it). As for training, I really don’t want to minimize it… I have all the time I need this summer to do everything I possibly can to improve myself and I think getting stronger while building the work capacity, rucking, running and doing BW workouts will all help if I’ll structure everything smartly.
I am curious why you feel it is necessary to also spend time improving maximum static strength in the squat, bench press, deadlift and overhead press for your goal of being a member of special forces, especially when members of special forces units have told you the opposite. I feel as though the time you invest in that could be better invested in other skillsets that would be valuable toward your future, such as learning foreign languages, developing land navigation skills, becoming a better marksman, etc.
The special forces guys that I have known were never really the biggest and strongest guys around, because that isn’t what they needed to succeed. Instead, most of them were pretty light, could run for days, had very high pain tolerance, and no quit in them.
Unless you have heard from other special forces folks that you should be focusing on your bench press, squat, overhead press and deadlift to have a chance of joining up, I feel like this is simply time and energy that could be better invested, if your goal is to acually join.
There’s been plenty of solid, useful info so far, so I don’t want to complicate or confuse things any further. Just wanted to toss in a few quick comments.
[quote]Regev19978 wrote:
Weight 163 lbs. 74 kg
Height 6 feet. 184 cm[/quote]
Pretty much everything I’ve ever read is that people tend to lose weight during basic training, from the PT and whatnot. So, the sooner you cure your case of skinny, the better. Especially if you’re increasing your conditioning work right now, absolutely do bump up your calories (protein, carbs, and fats) accordingly.
Do you know what the most important word in that sentence is? Hint: it’s two letters long.
EDIT: Just double-checked your log from two months ago.
[quote]Body weight around 161 lbs and those are my best lifts:
- Squat 100kg (225) 5RM
- Bench 80 kg (176) for double
- military sucks 50 kg (110) for triple
- deadlift 140kg (308) for triple [/quote]
Comparing then to now …
[quote]Weight 163 lbs. 74 kg
Height 6 feet. 184 cm
Deadlift 319 lbs. 145 kg
Squat 242.5 lbs. 110 kg
Bench 187 lbs. 85 kg
Military 110 lbs. 50 kg[/quote]
Take a second to realize that, unfortunately, you’ve made practically zero progress in strength or bodyweight in two full months.
I’m betting this is because you’re still searching for “the best” program. You’re wasting time and energy in the hopes of finding “it”. But you think you’ll suddenly pull it all together over this summer and make tremendous progress? I totally hope you do, but you’ve got to get your head right, decide on one plan of action, and stick to it.
I agree with the advice that’s been laid out. Getting big and strong is largely going to be a waste of your time. In boot camp alone, you will lose a tremendous amount of muscle mass and the only strength you will have will be relative to your bodyweight. I’m not trying to discourage you at all from doing what you want to do. However, just bear in mind it won’t help you in your journey.
The Special Forces guys generally get big and strong AFTER training.
So… you might want to consider that.
Concentrate on getting your education. I can assure you that even if you enlist relatively untrained, you will pass boot camp/ basic training or whatever its called in your country, as long as you possess the required stamina and mental fortitude.
Don’t go training multiple things for hours a day for the next 2 years before you enlist.
[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
There’s been plenty of solid, useful info so far, so I don’t want to complicate or confuse things any further. Just wanted to toss in a few quick comments.
[quote]Regev19978 wrote:
Weight 163 lbs. 74 kg
Height 6 feet. 184 cm[/quote]
Pretty much everything I’ve ever read is that people tend to lose weight during basic training, from the PT and whatnot. So, the sooner you cure your case of skinny, the better. Especially if you’re increasing your conditioning work right now, absolutely do bump up your calories (protein, carbs, and fats) accordingly.
Do you know what the most important word in that sentence is? Hint: it’s two letters long.
EDIT: Just double-checked your log from two months ago.
[quote]Body weight around 161 lbs and those are my best lifts:
- Squat 100kg (225) 5RM
- Bench 80 kg (176) for double
- military sucks 50 kg (110) for triple
- deadlift 140kg (308) for triple [/quote]
Comparing then to now …
[quote]Weight 163 lbs. 74 kg
Height 6 feet. 184 cm
Deadlift 319 lbs. 145 kg
Squat 242.5 lbs. 110 kg
Bench 187 lbs. 85 kg
Military 110 lbs. 50 kg[/quote]
Take a second to realize that, unfortunately, you’ve made practically zero progress in strength or bodyweight in two full months.
I’m betting this is because you’re still searching for “the best” program. You’re wasting time and energy in the hopes of finding “it”. But you think you’ll suddenly pull it all together over this summer and make tremendous progress? I totally hope you do, but you’ve got to get your head right, decide on one plan of action, and stick to it.[/quote]
Actually I know didn’t progress at all, I had a lot exams recently so I had to miss a couple weeks of training and my nutrition was like shit too.
You know? I do have some kinde of ADD about this stuff, this is why I thought on something structure and proven for a few months like 5/3/1.
Guys, I have an year more or less for the boot camp,now I’m at the beginning stage of the selection which is medical and intellectual tests. Do you think I should focus on endurance and calisthenics only right now? Getting to the gym and lifting heavy is probably one of the things I just like to do the most.
Thanks for all the tips guys, really.
Some of you said that bbrock171’s tips are gold and that’s another respond I got from him in that thread.
[quote]bbrock171 wrote:
Well, getting your body (especially feet) used to rucking will help in the endurance and bodyfat department, so that along with some sprints or intervals 2-3 times a week will get you where you need to go. I would say rucking is more important than your 2-mile run time, both in Afghanistan and in a training environment.
As far as the other stuff, do whatever weight routine suits you. I would just add pushups as a burnout exercise to the end of your bench/chest workouts, and add some extra pullups to your back workout. Any old ab routine will work too. If you can do 70-80 situps in 2min you’re doing great.
All that said, I wouldn’t sweat any of it. The fact that you even give two shits about physical fitness puts you head and shoulders above the rest. You’ll get plenty of exposure to rucking, running, pushups and situps in basic training. [/quote]
He told me himself (and Alpha too when I talked to him for an advice) that all I need is basic routine, ruck, run and swim. I’m really confused…
[quote]Regev19978 wrote:
He told me himself (and Alpha too when I talked to him for an advice) that all I need is basic routine, ruck, run and swim. I’m really confused…[/quote]
What are you confused about? To me… everyone seems to be saying basically the same thing.
- get the rucking thing figured out
- work on your cardiovascular endurance
- with whatever energy you have left over, put it toward a basic routine and make progress there
Look… you go through training in the military to be TRAINED TO DO ALL THAT SHIT.
Unless you need to pass certain physical fitness tests prior to enlistment, just do any strength program you want which includes sit-ups, pull-ups and some basic endurance work.
[quote]LoRez wrote:
[quote]Regev19978 wrote:
He told me himself (and Alpha too when I talked to him for an advice) that all I need is basic routine, ruck, run and swim. I’m really confused…[/quote]
What are you confused about? To me… everyone seems to be saying basically the same thing.
- get the rucking thing figured out
- work on your cardiovascular endurance
- with whatever energy you have left over, put it toward a basic routine and make progress there[/quote]
OK, thanks.
I’ll stick to 5/3/1 BBB, rucking every morning except Sunday. Most of the week the ruck will be 30min, always beating time/length/weight.Saturdat will be a long ruck (1.5-2 hours) Twice a week cardio vascular work with BW workout(on the ‘off’ days). Do you think I should add carries (farmers is all I can…) and some more BW rep work to BBB? If I’ll couldn’t handle it I can always cut them off…
[quote]Regev19978 wrote:
Some of you said that bbrock171’s tips are gold and that’s another respond I got from him in that thread.
[quote]bbrock171 wrote:
Well, getting your body (especially feet) used to rucking will help in the endurance and bodyfat department, so that along with some sprints or intervals 2-3 times a week will get you where you need to go. I would say rucking is more important than your 2-mile run time, both in Afghanistan and in a training environment.
As far as the other stuff, do whatever weight routine suits you. I would just add pushups as a burnout exercise to the end of your bench/chest workouts, and add some extra pullups to your back workout. Any old ab routine will work too. If you can do 70-80 situps in 2min you’re doing great.
All that said, I wouldn’t sweat any of it. The fact that you even give two shits about physical fitness puts you head and shoulders above the rest. You’ll get plenty of exposure to rucking, running, pushups and situps in basic training. [/quote]
He told me himself (and Alpha too when I talked to him for an advice) that all I need is basic routine, ruck, run and swim. I’m really confused…[/quote]
You are correct. Running, rucking, swimming, lifting, and calisthenics are all the things you need to do. The problem is though, that you have to be smart about how you put everything together. You have a limited ability to recover, and if you spread yourself too thin, you won’t have the energy to get better at the important things. You’ve heard a couple different things from a couple different people, and you sound confused because you’re getting a lot of information. What you need to realize is that there is no “one” way to get ready, and if you followed any program that intelligently combines everything, you’ll be prepared. What you need to avoid is thinking I can do all of it.
The other thing to remember is that getting ready for a training environment is entirely different then actually joining a unit. Like myself and several others have mentioned, you have time to get big later. Endurance is super important right now. For example, a buddy of mine trained and applied for a BUDS contact, but was medically disqualified. From his conversations with former and current SEALS, he was recommended to run about 40-50 miles a week, and be prepared to do 1000 4 count flutter kicks. Train for endurance now, and you can build muscle later.
Lifting twice a week is more than enough to build the strength necessary,but still leave enough extra time to focus on your endurance. Wendler has a couple twice a week variations of 5/3/1, if you really want to follow his program. Rucking once a week is a solid goal. Use the rest of your time to focus on calisthenics, running, and swimming.
Hope that clarifies some of your questions.
[quote]dt79 wrote:
Look… you go through training in the military to be TRAINED TO DO ALL THAT SHIT.
Unless you need to pass certain physical fitness tests prior to enlistment, just do any strength program you want which includes sit-ups, pull-ups and some basic endurance work.
[/quote]
No, I don’t. So I guess I have nothing too special worry about besides Strength, Ruck, Endurance and BW training. Thanks.
By the way, how bad is my grammar? haha
Many thanks.
[quote]Regev19978 wrote:
[quote]dt79 wrote:
Look… you go through training in the military to be TRAINED TO DO ALL THAT SHIT.
Unless you need to pass certain physical fitness tests prior to enlistment, just do any strength program you want which includes sit-ups, pull-ups and some basic endurance work.
[/quote]
No, I don’t. So I guess I have nothing too special worry about besides Strength, Ruck, Endurance and BW training. Thanks.
By the way, how bad is my grammar? haha
Many thanks.[/quote]
Your grammar is probably better than mine.
You don’t have anything to worry about NOW because its 2 years away.
Focus on your education instead of spending an excessive amount of time on this. Just build up your endurance and include bodyweight exercises in your training.
And go have fun doing things a kid should be doing. If you want to strength train go ahead and do it. You can worry about all the other types of training a few months before enlistment.
What makes it tough for a new recruit is not simply the training, but the entire culture shock. Just be mentally prepared for that.