But are other people finding things heavy? Feels heavy. And these are not heavy weights, not really. On the 1+ rep final set of the 2nd cycle, 95% of 90% of your maxes is 85.5% of your max. THAT should not be heavy. You should be able to get 5-6 reps with it. But I suspect there is quite a bit of accumulated fatigue from the previous weeks. Which is fine - but do most people find it quite heavy going?
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The only people that do find it heavy overestimate their current maxes. I would seriously reconsider and re-configure (to sound like Al Sharpton) your maxes. Why don’t you just back off the maxes for a bit and let your body get used to the weights? Phil Wylie had all of his guys use 85% of their maxes and they all made great progress. I have done the same and made awesome progress.
Don’t let your ego get in the way of increasing your ego.
I’ve also noticed that the 2 work-up sets sometimes feel heavier but the last set still goes just fine. I think its because mentally and physically you are not giving your best effort on the first two because your focus is on what happens on the last set. You are thinking of them as something along the lines of warmup sets but you forget that you are doing reps with 75-85% of your 1RM. I’ve recognized this in my own training.
If the first or second set feels a little on the heavy side it doesnt phase me. I know I’ll be ready to destroy the last set no matter what. I just dont get jacked up for the first two sets. I save it all for the last.
Good response Jim. I used actualy maxes, although that’s not to say that I can pull those maxes out whenever I want.
But if you say it was from an overestimate, that people who overestimate maxes find it heavy, then that may be the case.
Although I also think using the 5% increments, doing too much volume on accessory work, and this suspected cold have knocked me about. Also, I never stalled on anything. And I do workout first thing in the morning, on little food - which I think makes me sluggish through the warmups.
But I would love to be going in there killing the last set and feeling more refreshed.
Note though despite all my complaining - this is working - and it is good.
Also (just measuring waist) I have lost 1" off my waist without doing a damned thing to lose fat. Not a damned thing. I think this would be a great skeleton for weight loss. 4 main lifts, strength steadily getting greater, all accessory work aimed at fat loss (perhaps all cardio). I think that would be a really excellent approach. Or maybe, 5-3-1 lifts, then a single movement 5 sets of 10, then cardio = major fat loss, good strength gain or maintain, muscle size increase.
Thanks Brent, it could of course be the fact that I am still half asleep.
When I get to the point where I cannot do the last set, then I will happily reset weights.
In the meantime, I will continue as I have, but I will switch to the 10% jumps because I think 5% jumps are a bit crazy.
A bit surprised to find the deload weeks so sluggish though, but, the following cycle, am usually fresh and ready to go. Did deload squats an hour or so ago, feel good now. No doubt will feel great next week.
But are other people finding things heavy? Feels heavy. And these are not heavy weights, not really. On the 1+ rep final set of the 2nd cycle, 95% of 90% of your maxes is 85.5% of your max. THAT should not be heavy. You should be able to get 5-6 reps with it. But I suspect there is quite a bit of accumulated fatigue from the previous weeks. Which is fine - but do most people find it quite heavy going?
The only people that do find it heavy overestimate their current maxes. I would seriously reconsider and re-configure (to sound like Al Sharpton) your maxes. Why don’t you just back off the maxes for a bit and let your body get used to the weights? Phil Wylie had all of his guys use 85% of their maxes and they all made great progress. I have done the same and made awesome progress.
Don’t let your ego get in the way of increasing your ego.
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Jim is correct, we based our max off of 85%. I also think once your rep outs fall below 5 reps you should lower your max and start over again.
When I deadlifted 705 in competition my top weight in the gym was 585 for 7 reps. I based my deadlift max on 610. I definitely learned from 5/3/1 that you don’t have to train with heavy percentages to get stronger.
Thanks guys, this is good to know. It is hard to get it out of your head - the desire to chase the max. But doing max effort work all the time is a killer. Which is partly why this looked so good in the first place.
I know it says in the book a few times that a lot of people were using 85% instead of 90% of their maxes.
It is good to know that backing off shouldn’t cause any problems ie will still progress well. I will stick to my guns though until I stall.
Phillip are you saying that if, on your 1+ set, you fail to get 5 reps you should reduce your maxes? Jim do you agree with this? I would have thought getting 2, 3 reps on your 1+ day would be fine. But if you think it would be better to adjust everything until you get 5 reps on those days …
Hey Jim, i’m curious why in your new book you didnt include the bodybuilding template from 3 day book? you dont recomend it anymore? Not that i’m planning to do it now, just curiosity…
[quote]Magarhe wrote:
Phillip are you saying that if, on your 1+ set, you fail to get 5 reps you should reduce your maxes? Jim do you agree with this? I would have thought getting 2, 3 reps on your 1+ day would be fine. But if you think it would be better to adjust everything until you get 5 reps on those days … [/quote]
Yes, that is correct. For me the program worked best if I was getting at least 5 reps on my top set.
Phillip, do you go right to failure on that last set? Jim was kind of implying not to go to total failure, maybe have one left in the tank, or something like that.
I can very much see that adjusting weights down until you get 5 or more reps in the last set for the 1+ set is a good idea. I think I prob. would have no trouble doing that if I wasn’t using the 5% jumps, the earlier sets do take a bit (not much but noticeable) out of me.
[quote]Sagat wrote:
Hey Jim, i’m curious why in your new book you didnt include the bodybuilding template from 3 day book? you dont recomend it anymore? Not that i’m planning to do it now, just curiosity…[/quote]
You can do it if you want - not a big deal. Accessory work isn’t that complicated. Work everything and strive for balance.
Phillip are you saying that if, on your 1+ set, you fail to get 5 reps you should reduce your maxes? Jim do you agree with this? I would have thought getting 2, 3 reps on your 1+ day would be fine. But if you think it would be better to adjust everything until you get 5 reps on those days … [/quote]
I never agree with Phil. He is friends with Donegan which means he might have the Clap. But then again I’m friends with Donegan, too. Fuck me…
Any news or update on which or what your next project? Ebook coming soon(yoke,conditionning) or maybe something else your working on?[/quote]
I have about 10 million things planned. I just have to get everything in order. I think the Yoke manual will be next. I have some pretty cool stuff planeed out that I really think will help people; things that will cut through some of the B.S. that seems to confuse everyone. Does anyone have any suggestions?
[quote]Magarhe wrote:
Phillip, do you go right to failure on that last set? Jim was kind of implying not to go to total failure, maybe have one left in the tank, or something like that.
I can very much see that adjusting weights down until you get 5 or more reps in the last set for the 1+ set is a good idea. I think I prob. would have no trouble doing that if I wasn’t using the 5% jumps, the earlier sets do take a bit (not much but noticeable) out of me.
[/quote]
I didn’t go to failure. The goals I set, but exceeded until my 7th wave were; 1st week = 8 reps, 2nd week = 5 reps, 3rd week = 3 reps. Those were the goals I set, but I usually did at least 5 reps. In my opinion the rep max is more important on the deadlift. You get fatigued and learn to grind through the deadlift. This really brought up my lockout strength and improved my deadlift form.
[quote]Jim Wendler wrote:
Phillip are you saying that if, on your 1+ set, you fail to get 5 reps you should reduce your maxes? Jim do you agree with this? I would have thought getting 2, 3 reps on your 1+ day would be fine. But if you think it would be better to adjust everything until you get 5 reps on those days …
I never agree with Phil. He is friends with Donegan which means he might have the Clap. But then again I’m friends with Donegan, too. Fuck me…
[quote]Jim Wendler wrote:
I have about 10 million things planned. I just have to get everything in order. I think the Yoke manual will be next. I have some pretty cool stuff planeed out that I really think will help people; things that will cut through some of the B.S. that seems to confuse everyone. Does anyone have any suggestions?
[/quote]
How about a guide to understanding women? They confuse me.
How about your own version of Dave’s “27 Reasons to be big”. Some people need a refresher.
Or you could just do the Yoke Manual. That would be just as good. I guess.
[quote]Phillip Wylie wrote:
Magarhe wrote:
Phillip, do you go right to failure on that last set? Jim was kind of implying not to go to total failure, maybe have one left in the tank, or something like that.
I can very much see that adjusting weights down until you get 5 or more reps in the last set for the 1+ set is a good idea. I think I prob. would have no trouble doing that if I wasn’t using the 5% jumps, the earlier sets do take a bit (not much but noticeable) out of me.
I didn’t go to failure. The goals I set, but exceeded until my 7th wave were; 1st week = 8 reps, 2nd week = 5 reps, 3rd week = 3 reps. Those were the goals I set, but I usually did at least 5 reps. In my opinion the rep max is more important on the deadlift. You get fatigued and learn to grind through the deadlift. This really brought up my lockout strength and improved my deadlift form.
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How is life treating you Phil? Good to see you. I saw you on the first page here. Youre HOT.
[quote]kickureface wrote:
so at the end of the 4wk cyclish, after you get your 1rm from the 5/3/1 days, you deload then use the new 1rm and do another cycle?
if you got burnt out from the 5 and 3 before the max single and you got lower than before, do i just use my old 1rm or my current noob one?[/quote]
Add 10lbs to your lower body noob maxes, 5lbs to your upper body noob maxes, and get after it.
