Wendler 5/3/1 Program - pt 2.

[quote]dez6485 wrote:
jsdool wrote:
Aww c’mon… Now if you don’t do exactly 3 warm-up sets, you are not doing 5/3/1?

In the eBook, JW says “Warming up prior to training is important. I usually recommend …”. He goes on to say that you shouldn’t need to many warm-up sets but just enough to prepare yourself.

I agree that Airness shouldn’t monkey around with the work sets though.

in your opinion, are 3 warm up sets REALLY too much? they certainly arent heavy enough that they should be taxing, and take away from your work sets. so why the apparent aversion to them?

no one said if you didnt do exactly 3 warm ups you werent doing 5/3/1. the question that was asked showed that the guy seemed to just be jumping to the work sets, and the answer he received on the 40, 50, 60% warm up sets was the exact answer he shouldve gotten. [/quote]

No, I’m not jumping straight to the work sets. This is what I do:

Bar x 5
80lbs x 5
100lbs x 5
Work sets

Edit: What I really mean is, if the warm up sets aren’t enough because my bench is really shit, can I do some ‘feel sets’ in between the warm up sets with a weight that is in between each working set to prime me up for the last set?

[quote]evitagen wrote:
…Just telling the guy what he needed to hear tersely. Sort of like when you petulantly…[/quote]

Heehee. I know what petulant means but sometimes I look a word up just to see if there are other meanings. One was “cranky: easily irritated or annoyed;” but I prefer: “an incorrigibly fractious young man” although I am by no means young. Touche.

Starting my fourth cycle on Monday. I had some non-weightlifting related back pain last cycle and didn’t get a single PR like I did in the second. I haven’t looked at any of the 5/3/1 logs on T-Nation but plan on doing so now. Does every one posting here have one on T-Nation?

[quote]Airness wrote:
dez6485 wrote:
jsdool wrote:
Aww c’mon… Now if you don’t do exactly 3 warm-up sets, you are not doing 5/3/1?

In the eBook, JW says “Warming up prior to training is important. I usually recommend …”. He goes on to say that you shouldn’t need to many warm-up sets but just enough to prepare yourself.

I agree that Airness shouldn’t monkey around with the work sets though.

in your opinion, are 3 warm up sets REALLY too much? they certainly arent heavy enough that they should be taxing, and take away from your work sets. so why the apparent aversion to them?

no one said if you didnt do exactly 3 warm ups you werent doing 5/3/1. the question that was asked showed that the guy seemed to just be jumping to the work sets, and the answer he received on the 40, 50, 60% warm up sets was the exact answer he shouldve gotten.

No, I’m not jumping straight to the work sets. This is what I do:

Bar x 5
80lbs x 5
100lbs x 5
Work sets

Edit: What I really mean is, if the warm up sets aren’t enough because my bench is really shit, can I do some ‘feel sets’ in between the warm up sets with a weight that is in between each working set to prime me up for the last set?

[/quote]

i would say if a few more warm up sets helps you feel ready to handle the work sets, then by all means, do them.

[quote]Airness wrote:
However, what I did last week for my squat was something like this I ramped up to my 85% squat weight.

E.g. bar x 5
100lbs x 5
135lbs x 5
150lbs x 3
180lbs x 1
200lbs x 1
215lbs x 13

No, I’m not jumping straight to the work sets. This is what I do:

Bar x 5
80lbs x 5
100lbs x 5
Work sets

Edit: What I really mean is, if the warm up sets aren’t enough because my bench is really shit, can I do some ‘feel sets’ in between the warm up sets with a weight that is in between each working set to prime me up for the last set?

[/quote]

Given that you are using the first week which uses 5 reps for the working sets, it looks like you added extra 1 rep sets, and I am not sure how you are using the working sets in the second example. Without checking the exact percentages, if looks like you would be doing it as prescribed if you simply changed those sets of 1 to sets of 5. To make sure we are all on the same page, a standard approach would look like (using arbitrary weights):

Warmup sets
40% x5
50% x5
60% x3
Working sets
65% x5
75% x5
85% x5+

Now, your suggestion of adding “‘feel sets’ in between the warm up sets with a weight that is in between each working set” would look like what? Taking “a weight that is in between each working set” would mean 70% and 80%, and placing them “between the warm up sets” would look like this:

Warmup sets
40% x5
70% x1 Feel set
50% x5
80% x1 Feel set
60% x3
Working sets
65% x5
75% x5
85% x5+

I don’t think this is what you are asking about doing, but it is what your wording seems to mean, so it may help if you clarify. Overall, I think that if you 3 working sets at the standard weights (65,75,85 all 5 reps) and warm up with 40,50,60 you will likely be fine. If you need more warm up sets and want to lift heavier, you could switch to using working weights with 5% jumps – so 75, 80, 85 for 5 reps, and maybe do warm up sets with 40, 50, 60, and a feel rep at 65 and 70%.

Can you clarify in what way your bench is shit? To you mean technique is off so you need more sets to practice that (which can be done with added warmup sets at the sub-working set weights), or that your focus is lacking so you think you need to work with a heavy weight to ‘prime’ yourself? I’m sure others could give some great input, but maybe the question you are asking isn’t sufficiently clear.

In any case, good luck withe the program.

[quote]revchad wrote:
Airness wrote:
However, what I did last week for my squat was something like this I ramped up to my 85% squat weight.

E.g. bar x 5
100lbs x 5
135lbs x 5
150lbs x 3
180lbs x 1
200lbs x 1
215lbs x 13

No, I’m not jumping straight to the work sets. This is what I do:

Bar x 5
80lbs x 5
100lbs x 5
Work sets

Edit: What I really mean is, if the warm up sets aren’t enough because my bench is really shit, can I do some ‘feel sets’ in between the warm up sets with a weight that is in between each working set to prime me up for the last set?

Given that you are using the first week which uses 5 reps for the working sets, it looks like you added extra 1 rep sets, and I am not sure how you are using the working sets in the second example. Without checking the exact percentages, if looks like you would be doing it as prescribed if you simply changed those sets of 1 to sets of 5. To make sure we are all on the same page, a standard approach would look like (using arbitrary weights):

Warmup sets
40% x5
50% x5
60% x3
Working sets
65% x5
75% x5
85% x5+

Now, your suggestion of adding “‘feel sets’ in between the warm up sets with a weight that is in between each working set” would look like what? Taking “a weight that is in between each working set” would mean 70% and 80%, and placing them “between the warm up sets” would look like this:

Warmup sets
40% x5
70% x1 Feel set
50% x5
80% x1 Feel set
60% x3
Working sets
65% x5
75% x5
85% x5+

I don’t think this is what you are asking about doing, but it is what your wording seems to mean, so it may help if you clarify. Overall, I think that if you 3 working sets at the standard weights (65,75,85 all 5 reps) and warm up with 40,50,60 you will likely be fine. If you need more warm up sets and want to lift heavier, you could switch to using working weights with 5% jumps – so 75, 80, 85 for 5 reps, and maybe do warm up sets with 40, 50, 60, and a feel rep at 65 and 70%.

Can you clarify in what way your bench is shit? To you mean technique is off so you need more sets to practice that (which can be done with added warmup sets at the sub-working set weights), or that your focus is lacking so you think you need to work with a heavy weight to ‘prime’ yourself? I’m sure others could give some great input, but maybe the question you are asking isn’t sufficiently clear.

In any case, good luck withe the program.[/quote]

Thanks for the reply.

What I really meant was something along the lines of this:

Warmup sets
40% x5
50% x5
60% x3
Working sets
65% x5
70% x1 Feel set
75% x5
80% x1 Feel set
85% x5+

Because from personal experience, I don’t seem to work as well as I am able to (especially on the bench) without these ‘feel sets’.

What I did for my squat was I worked up to my 3RM and then went back down to my 85% set and that worked extremely well. I got 13 reps. Even though technically I wasn’t doing 5/3/1 then but I think what matters ultimately is that you get rep pr’s for the last set. Sure, I think the prescribed reps are important but I think if you calculate your numbers well (and even then, it’s probably not all that accurate anyway because your strength levels are different each time-- but that’s what the 90% is for so this is not my point really.)

Personally, I feel like it benefits me more if I ramp up to the last set by warming up and then doing feel sets and then ‘back off’ and do the 65% x 5 and 75% x 5 for extra volume.

Also, to clarify, what I mean by my bench being shit is how I can only do 205lbs and I’m like 200lbs lol.