Jim,
Your diet and nutritional advice is about where I stop following you. It’s just too technical for me.
After reading Wendler’s latest article, I decided to include power cleans in before my squat workout. I tried it out last thursday, and it felt pretty good. Jim says to put it into a 5/3/1 setup for the reps, and I did, but I just didn’t go all out on the last set… I figured they are a little more technical and it could get dangerous with heavy weights and high reps. So I did 3x5 while just ramping the weight.
Do you guys think this is ok? Or should I drop the weights and go all out? Or maybe even stick with the normal progression to gradually heavier weights next week and go all out on the last set?
[quote]ButtNugget wrote:
After reading Wendler’s latest article, I decided to include power cleans in before my squat workout. I tried it out last thursday, and it felt pretty good. Jim says to put it into a 5/3/1 setup for the reps, and I did, but I just didn’t go all out on the last set… I figured they are a little more technical and it could get dangerous with heavy weights and high reps. So I did 3x5 while just ramping the weight.
Do you guys think this is ok? Or should I drop the weights and go all out? Or maybe even stick with the normal progression to gradually heavier weights next week and go all out on the last set?[/quote]
This is what I have been doing. For the cleans I’m actually using the tighter percentages as the other option in the manual. That being said, I never go past 5 reps on the all out last set. Higher intensity should make up for the lack of volume and keep progression moving along.
[quote]ButtNugget wrote:
After reading Wendler’s latest article, I decided to include power cleans in before my squat workout. I tried it out last thursday, and it felt pretty good. Jim says to put it into a 5/3/1 setup for the reps, and I did, but I just didn’t go all out on the last set… I figured they are a little more technical and it could get dangerous with heavy weights and high reps. So I did 3x5 while just ramping the weight.
Do you guys think this is ok? Or should I drop the weights and go all out? Or maybe even stick with the normal progression to gradually heavier weights next week and go all out on the last set?[/quote]
i am in the same boat with the cleans. ive never done them with any consistency, so i didnt have any idea of how much i could do. i know that every now and then at the end of a deadlift workout or something, halfway through stripping the bar down, id have a bar sitting on the ground weighing 225lbs, and attempt to clean it up to the J hooks on the rack, with no luck.
i think what i ended up doing with the weight the other day was using 190lbs as my training max. and since i was on the 3’s day for deads (70, 80, 90%'s) i just did that with the cleans, so that everything was on the same wave as i progress.
…my plan is essentially to get a few weeks of consistent work with just the prescribed reps, to make sure im doing something at least close to what a clean should look like, before hitting the higher reps. that said, im definitely not going to buy into the common thought that cleans shouldnt be done for high reps- im not an olympic lifter, nor am i interested in becoming one, and ive never understood the problem with doing that specific movement for high reps.
when do you scale back after a few cycles? say the first time i started on week 1 (5rm) i could get 10+ reps on an exercise, but after several cycles i can only get 5 reps on the ‘531’ week’ or less. keep going until i can only get 1 rep on the 531 week?
also, is it better to keep the weights in the range where i can pump out 10 reps + on the 5rm day?
[quote]kickureface wrote:
when do you scale back after a few cycles? say the first time i started on week 1 (5rm) i could get 10+ reps on an exercise, but after several cycles i can only get 5 reps on the ‘531’ week’ or less. keep going until i can only get 1 rep on the 531 week?
also, is it better to keep the weights in the range where i can pump out 10 reps + on the 5rm day?[/quote]
You keep going until you can’t get the prescribed reps on any of the weeks.
And no it’s not better.
I have been doing 3x10 power cleans and 3x10 good mornings after deadlifts. I will ramp weight up and eventually get to 5x10 of each when those lifts are in my current cycle.
@ powercleans after deadlifts- personally that would be worthless for me. When I finish deads, I’m done. Some good mornings, ab work, that’s it. No way I would rep out with 400+ lbs on deads and then get good power cleans.
Did them before squats and had no problem, would think the same for doing them before deads.
@ when to back off-
Personally, if I get to the point where I’m failing to hit the prescribed reps, then I’m past the point where I should have backed off. If on the 5’s week I were to get 7 or below, it’s time to back off, unless I were to blow away the reps on 3’s and then 531 day, to indicate that the 5’s day was just an off day.
Otherwise, my rules are general 7 or below on 5’s day, 5 or below on 3’s day, or 3 or below on 531 day, at that point I reset. Keeping in mind, sometimes you may just go in with those reps in mind for that day, or even going in on say 5’s day and only aim for 5. But you would need to be the judge between if you were only capable of doing 5, or chose to only do 5 to “reserve” yourself for maybe later in the cycle or something.
[quote]dez6485 wrote:
@ when to back off-
Personally, if I get to the point where I’m failing to hit the prescribed reps, then I’m past the point where I should have backed off. If on the 5’s week I were to get 7 or below, it’s time to back off, unless I were to blow away the reps on 3’s and then 531 day, to indicate that the 5’s day was just an off day.[/quote]
Does anyone else do this? I think I’d have had to back off in cycle 2 if I did this. I at least get the prescribed reps, but sometimes I only get 1 more than that. I wasn’t planning on backing off until I missed the prescribed reps. Hell, even if you hit just the prescribed reps, that means you’re progressing 5-10 lbs a month.
I plan on backing off if I only get the prescribed reps for two weeks in a row. I am on my third cycle and only did 1x285lb squat in Cycle 2/Week 3 but managed one more than presribed so far in Cycle 3. Based upon past squat history, I don’t think I overestimated my 1RM but something sure doesn’t seem right with my squat.
[quote]DeeseB wrote:
dez6485 wrote:
@ when to back off-
Personally, if I get to the point where I’m failing to hit the prescribed reps, then I’m past the point where I should have backed off. If on the 5’s week I were to get 7 or below, it’s time to back off, unless I were to blow away the reps on 3’s and then 531 day, to indicate that the 5’s day was just an off day.
Does anyone else do this? I think I’d have had to back off in cycle 2 if I did this. I at least get the prescribed reps, but sometimes I only get 1 more than that. I wasn’t planning on backing off until I missed the prescribed reps. Hell, even if you hit just the prescribed reps, that means you’re progressing 5-10 lbs a month.[/quote]
i am under the impression that a lot of people do it this way. have you read the book?
[quote]dez6485 wrote:
DeeseB wrote:
dez6485 wrote:
@ when to back off-
Personally, if I get to the point where I’m failing to hit the prescribed reps, then I’m past the point where I should have backed off. If on the 5’s week I were to get 7 or below, it’s time to back off, unless I were to blow away the reps on 3’s and then 531 day, to indicate that the 5’s day was just an off day.
Does anyone else do this? I think I’d have had to back off in cycle 2 if I did this. I at least get the prescribed reps, but sometimes I only get 1 more than that. I wasn’t planning on backing off until I missed the prescribed reps. Hell, even if you hit just the prescribed reps, that means you’re progressing 5-10 lbs a month.
i am under the impression that a lot of people do it this way. have you read the book?[/quote]
Yeah, pg 29 discusses stalling. I was just curious how others were doing it.
[quote]DeeseB wrote:
dez6485 wrote:
DeeseB wrote:
dez6485 wrote:
@ when to back off-
Personally, if I get to the point where I’m failing to hit the prescribed reps, then I’m past the point where I should have backed off. If on the 5’s week I were to get 7 or below, it’s time to back off, unless I were to blow away the reps on 3’s and then 531 day, to indicate that the 5’s day was just an off day.
Does anyone else do this? I think I’d have had to back off in cycle 2 if I did this. I at least get the prescribed reps, but sometimes I only get 1 more than that. I wasn’t planning on backing off until I missed the prescribed reps. Hell, even if you hit just the prescribed reps, that means you’re progressing 5-10 lbs a month.
i am under the impression that a lot of people do it this way. have you read the book?
Yeah, pg 29 discusses stalling. I was just curious how others were doing it.
[/quote]
I am 11 cycles in and I reset if I can only get the prescribed reps (i.e. 5, 3, or 1). If I get anymore than what is prescribed then I keep going. I have found that to be effective for me and have continued to make progress on the plan.
Anyone else going to the seminar in Chicago (Saturday)?
[quote]Jim Wendler wrote:
irishlifting wrote:
Any word on you (Jim) coming to Ireland for a drinking, I mean training seminar?
I will be there presenting on November 8th (in Ireland). I will also be in Chicago next weekend.[/quote]
Maybe I’m looking in the wrong places but can’t find any info on your seminar.
I re-read the eBook (fourth time), searched here and at EliteFTS but couldn’t find an answer.
Can speed sets be done for assistance exercises? I figure they fit the criteria for assistance exercises in the eBook: 1) Strengthen weak areas of the body; 2) Compliment and help increase the four basic lifts; 3) Provide balance and symmetry to your body and your training; and 4) Build muscle mass.
I was thinking of doing speed deadlifts as an assistance on squat day and speed squats on deadlift day.
[quote]jsdool wrote:
I re-read the eBook (fourth time), searched here and at EliteFTS but couldn’t find an answer.
Can speed sets be done for assistance exercises? I figure they fit the criteria for assistance exercises in the eBook: 1) Strengthen weak areas of the body; 2) Compliment and help increase the four basic lifts; 3) Provide balance and symmetry to your body and your training; and 4) Build muscle mass.
I was thinking of doing speed deadlifts as an assistance on squat day and speed squats on deadlift day.[/quote]
That become pathetics…speed work is not part of the program…do it if you want but that not the 5/3/1…if you didnot find anything on elitefts there a big problem…just search speed on Jim Wendler and you get a answer!!
[quote]crankMAN wrote:
jsdool wrote:
I re-read the eBook (fourth time), searched here and at EliteFTS but couldn’t find an answer.
Can speed sets be done for assistance exercises? I figure they fit the criteria for assistance exercises in the eBook: 1) Strengthen weak areas of the body; 2) Compliment and help increase the four basic lifts; 3) Provide balance and symmetry to your body and your training; and 4) Build muscle mass.
I was thinking of doing speed deadlifts as an assistance on squat day and speed squats on deadlift day.
That become pathetics…speed work is not part of the program…do it if you want but that not the 5/3/1…if you didnot find anything on elitefts there a big problem…just search speed on Jim Wendler and you get a answer!!
[/quote]
Does every anwser have to be its not the program (yes, I did that to someone else but he was talking about the main lifts)? I thought the 5/3/1 program emphasized warm-up + main lifts + assistance exercises + north of vag stuff. All I was asking was whether the speed stuff qualified as assistance. Don’t know why you call it pathetic but that is your opinion and maybe someday I’ll read your ebook.
[quote]jsdool wrote:
crankMAN wrote:
jsdool wrote:
I re-read the eBook (fourth time), searched here and at EliteFTS but couldn’t find an answer.
Can speed sets be done for assistance exercises? I figure they fit the criteria for assistance exercises in the eBook: 1) Strengthen weak areas of the body; 2) Compliment and help increase the four basic lifts; 3) Provide balance and symmetry to your body and your training; and 4) Build muscle mass.
I was thinking of doing speed deadlifts as an assistance on squat day and speed squats on deadlift day.
That become pathetics…speed work is not part of the program…do it if you want but that not the 5/3/1…if you didnot find anything on elitefts there a big problem…just search speed on Jim Wendler and you get a answer!!
Does every anwser have to be its not the program (yes, I did that to someone else but he was talking about the main lifts)? I thought the 5/3/1 program emphasized warm-up + main lifts + assistance exercises + north of vag stuff. All I was asking was whether the speed stuff qualified as assistance. Don’t know why you call it pathetic but that is your opinion and maybe someday I’ll read your ebook.
[/quote]
Well the subject has been more then discuss…do you have the book, and if you re read it a few times and still asking about speed work…And if im not wrong Jim answer that question not later then this week!!!
[quote]jsdool wrote:
I re-read the eBook (fourth time), searched here and at EliteFTS but couldn’t find an answer.
Can speed sets be done for assistance exercises? I figure they fit the criteria for assistance exercises in the eBook: 1) Strengthen weak areas of the body; 2) Compliment and help increase the four basic lifts; 3) Provide balance and symmetry to your body and your training; and 4) Build muscle mass.
I was thinking of doing speed deadlifts as an assistance on squat day and speed squats on deadlift day.[/quote]
… I don’t know why these knuckleheads can’t understand the concept of slow, but constant progression…
Reminds me of when I was a newbie doing StrongLifts 5x5 3X per week starting with an empty bar as recommended and adding 5-10lb each workout. Slow and constant progression that worked for nearly six months. Lots of guys asking whether they could start the program with x lbs instead of an empty bar.