Wendler 5/3/1 Program - pt 2.

Training Powerlifting
661

[quote]Built Big wrote:
JPeggEFS wrote:
malonetd wrote:
pumped340 wrote:
I’m currently doing 4 days a week as outlined by his article on this site. This coming week is my deload, it seems like it’s still ok/recommended to do the 4 workouts a week but just with the deload structure of 3x5@40,50,60%? I would be taking accessory work down to about half the volume or so, same intensity.

I’m just asking because generally I don’t see deloads having 4 workouts in a week, usually 2-3.

Thanks

The truth is, when it comes to deloading, you need to do what works for you. Some deloads – several, actually – I’ve taken the entire week off and done no lifting. And other weeks Ido exactly what is outlined in the program. I pretty much just do what I feel like when the time comes.

I do a lot of the same things you do. One thing I try to do, is find and experiment with different exercises to see if I thought they would work well as assistance work for the next cycle. Some (high face pulls) work very well. Others (hand over hand prowler dragging) dont.

Jason

Same here. I don’t plan my training for my deload weeks at all. I may screw around with a few things if I feel like it but that’s about it.

Jason,

Interesting idea about using deloads as an experiment week for new exercises. Usually, if I add something new I run it for a whole cycle. I just wondered if you feel that a week is long enough to gauge whether or not a movement is going to be effective for you? I assume you would only do the movement once or twice during the deload. Just curious about what sort of indicators you are looking for.

Thanks! [/quote]

Honestly, at this point in my training “career” I really only need to do an exercise once or twice to deem it effective, or ineffective for what I’m doing. You have to remember too though that Im not really inventing new exercises, but it may be tying something that I haven’t included in a while, for whatever reason, or some sort of variation of an exercise. There are so many variables that you can control with them, as far as loading, tempo, accommodating restistance, bar used, etc. That the choices and possibilities are really limitless.

Jason

662

[quote]Dymdez wrote:
Jim, I don’t know if anyone has asked this question yet.

Can you apply 531 to assistance work? [/quote]

I’ve been using 531 on assistance work for my strongman events the last 6 months.
It works well for me on push press, log press, strict press, close grip bench, power cleans, squat and deadlift.

663

[quote]LeanCarlosBrown wrote:
Gentlemen,

I have finished my first cycle of Jim’s 5/3/1 and I must say that I am amazingly impressed with the results. I did not take any before or after pictures, all I did was check my BW a few times a week. I stayed at a steady 200lbs through the month and I only got stronger.

Visibly, I look bigger and stronger. And damn do I feel stronger. Did I lose some fat? Most definitely. I work in Iraq and I don’t have a Prowler to push or hills to run. So I jump rope or get on the elliptical a few times a week. I wasn’t too stressed about doing lots of cardio so I did it twice a week and still gained lots of muscle. My shirts are smaller now because of my size, and my legs are bigger.

The accessory work is very important. I took that from one of Louie Simmons videos where he says that they live off of accessory work or GPP. When I took on this mentality, I gave it my all with the acessory work and all of the major lifts became stronger every week.

Every week, I did some different accessory work which kept things fresh. Although, at the beginning of my deload week I was ready to, well, deload. On the deload week I kept my accessory work the same and I did NOT go easy on the accessory work. Now I’m ready to add the 5 lbs to the MP and BP and the 10lbs to my DL and SQ. I’m looking foward to it. But this time, I’ll include more cardio like the suitcase carry some other type of carry. I’m at work 12 hours a day so I have to get it done in the gym.

Here are my rep max:
Military Press 165x13
Bench Press 255x12
Deadlift 280x13
Squat 240x20 (I thought I was too weak on my Actual Squat Max, but ended up being stronger than what I originally had performed)

I followed everything Jim Wendler’s book told me to do, other than the cardio, and still got amazingly stronger than what I was at the beginning of the book.

On Nutrition:
After every work out I drank Biotest’s Surge Recover. This shit works wonders!
Throughout the day, I drank two protein shakes, low carb Metabolic Drive of course. Two scoops with Superfood, leucine, and milled flax seed. These were taken between breakfast and lunch, and lunch and dinner. They were also mixed with one small carton of low fat milk mixed with water.
Breakfast, lunch, and dinner were all clean foods. For example:

Breakfast:
4 boiled eggs(white only)
2 eggs fried hard
Oatmeal(regular)
apple or banana

Lunch:
Vegetables(lettuce, tomato, cucumber, onions)
Baked chicken, or chicken breast, or Turkey(6 slices) sandwich on Wheat
Baked potato
I’d indulge in fried potato wedges once a week

Dinner:
Protein shake or turkey sandwich(6 slices of course)

I took 8 Fish oil’s a day, 12 Beta-Alanines(on training days), no BCAA’s because I didn’t have any, and everything worked out just fine.

Now the guys in the gym that do upper body all of the time know I’m a regular, and they saw me transform right in front of them. I wish I could chew their asses for doing the same redundant shit while waisting their genetics. Oh well, they’ll learn when they bend over and can’t pick up their own body weight because of weak lower back and weak hamstringers. They motivate me every time I’m in there, amongst other things. But anyhow…

So there it is, BW stayed the same while I got stronger throughout the whole month. I look bigger, feel bigger and feel stronger. In Jim’s book, he was right about a lot of things. One thing in particular was that there wasn’t much that could stress me out since I was maxing out every week. So my mentality has improved about certain things in my life, and my mind is much sharper. It’s amazing what one month of slow and steady gains did for me. THANK YOU JIM!!

Kind Regards,

LCB
[/quote]

Congratulations on the progress and thanks for the words.

664

Thanks Jim. You deserve the words.

‘STRENGTH AND HONOR’

LCB

665

[quote]JPeggEFS wrote:
Dymdez wrote:
Jim, I don’t know if anyone has asked this question yet.

Can you apply 531 to assistance work?

I wouldn’t. It turns it from “assistance” to “main lift”

Jason[/quote]

I’m not sure what you mean? If I apply 5/3/1 to … lets say… barbell curls. Increased max every month by 2.5 lbs. You don’t think it would work well?

666

[quote]Dymdez wrote:
JPeggEFS wrote:
Dymdez wrote:
Jim, I don’t know if anyone has asked this question yet.

Can you apply 531 to assistance work?

I wouldn’t. It turns it from “assistance” to “main lift”

Jason

I’m not sure what you mean? If I apply 5/3/1 to … lets say… barbell curls. Increased max every month by 2.5 lbs. You don’t think it would work well?
[/quote]

What you are suggesting is different than applying the concepts of the 5/3/1 program to barbell curls. If you applied 5/3/1 to it you would have to establish a max and work up to 75%, 85%, and 95% of that max. Who works up to 95% on curls? Progressively increasing the weight each month as you suggest is not the same thing as applying the principles used on the main lifts of the 5/3/1 program. See what I am saying?

667

[quote]Apostate wrote:
Dymdez wrote:
JPeggEFS wrote:
Dymdez wrote:
Jim, I don’t know if anyone has asked this question yet.

Can you apply 531 to assistance work?

I wouldn’t. It turns it from “assistance” to “main lift”

Jason

I’m not sure what you mean? If I apply 5/3/1 to … lets say… barbell curls. Increased max every month by 2.5 lbs. You don’t think it would work well?

What you are suggesting is different than applying the concepts of the 5/3/1 program to barbell curls. If you applied 5/3/1 to it you would have to establish a max and work up to 75%, 85%, and 95% of that max. Who works up to 95% on curls? Progressively increasing the weight each month as you suggest is not the same thing as applying the principles used on the main lifts of the 5/3/1 program. See what I am saying?
[/quote]

what you can do…not same as 5/3/1 but something similar, on shrugs,curls ,db press…pick a weight, 2 set of 10 reps…and on the third one go all out…if you want try to beat this score next week!

668

[quote]crankMAN wrote:
Apostate wrote:
Dymdez wrote:
JPeggEFS wrote:
Dymdez wrote:
Jim, I don’t know if anyone has asked this question yet.

Can you apply 531 to assistance work?

I wouldn’t. It turns it from “assistance” to “main lift”

Jason

I’m not sure what you mean? If I apply 5/3/1 to … lets say… barbell curls. Increased max every month by 2.5 lbs. You don’t think it would work well?

What you are suggesting is different than applying the concepts of the 5/3/1 program to barbell curls. If you applied 5/3/1 to it you would have to establish a max and work up to 75%, 85%, and 95% of that max. Who works up to 95% on curls? Progressively increasing the weight each month as you suggest is not the same thing as applying the principles used on the main lifts of the 5/3/1 program. See what I am saying?

what you can do…not same as 5/3/1 but something similar, on shrugs,curls ,db press…pick a weight, 2 set of 10 reps…and on the third one go all out…if you want try to beat this score next week![/quote]

aka, “Kroc that shit”

669

[quote]Apostate wrote:
Dymdez wrote:
JPeggEFS wrote:
Dymdez wrote:
Jim, I don’t know if anyone has asked this question yet.

Can you apply 531 to assistance work?

I wouldn’t. It turns it from “assistance” to “main lift”

Jason

I’m not sure what you mean? If I apply 5/3/1 to … lets say… barbell curls. Increased max every month by 2.5 lbs. You don’t think it would work well?

What you are suggesting is different than applying the concepts of the 5/3/1 program to barbell curls. If you applied 5/3/1 to it you would have to establish a max and work up to 75%, 85%, and 95% of that max. Who works up to 95% on curls? Progressively increasing the weight each month as you suggest is not the same thing as applying the principles used on the main lifts of the 5/3/1 program. See what I am saying?
[/quote]

I think what Jason is trying to say (and something I have said many times) is that you can’t major in too many things. Can it work with Curls? Yes. But what is more important, Curls or Squats? Curls or Presses?

You can’t focus on too many things in training and expect to make gains. Nothing wrong with doing curls but don’t spread yourself too thin.

670

m1sf1t

Thanks for convincing me to use chalk. Today i did deadlifts with it for the first time, and it really made that much difference. I realized that not only sometimes i ended a set because of grip, but i was also wasting energy in the earlier reps because the bar was sliping a little.

Last cycle i ended with 400x5, today i did 410x5 a lot easier, i stoped at 5 because my left leg was a little tight from hill sprints and i was afraid of pulling the hamstring but felt like i had 2 reps in the tank. I 'm confident i’ll hit some serious deadlift PRs next cycle. Thanks man.

671

I have a question regarding loading/training maxes for my next cycle. I haven’t stalled yet on bench, military or deadlift yet but would it be a bad idea to repeat my training maxes on those lifts for another cycle and go for more reps on my final set each week? My squat continues to improve, but I feel taking the extra cycle might help in the long run. Has anyone else done this?

672

Could someone please answer this question for me. I’ve read the book twice and have been using the program for 7 weeks. In he book it implies in the Q and A section that substitution exercises are permited such as military presses for push presses, regular deads for trap bar deads, etc.

In certain threads (maybe people who haven’t bought the book) they go crazy with substitutions - I saw one guy say that he does 5/3/1 with face pulls and another who does 5/3/1 as his big exercise with pull throughs. What’s up with this? Is there a list of “permitted” replacement exercises or is it mainly common sense?

I’m nearing a deload week and I would like to start back with db benches rather than BPs to give my shoulder a rest but I know the author says this is not recomended when he states paraphase - if you have to ask why you haven’t been lifting long. Just a little confused. Thanks

673

[quote]bparis wrote:
I have a question regarding loading/training maxes for my next cycle. I haven’t stalled yet on bench, military or deadlift yet but would it be a bad idea to repeat my training maxes on those lifts for another cycle and go for more reps on my final set each week? My squat continues to improve, but I feel taking the extra cycle might help in the long run. Has anyone else done this?[/quote]

I’ve done it several times in the past with great success. I might do it again next cycle because work is about to get crazy.

674

Need a little bit of advice here. In regards to progress w/ reps, I seem to be doing fine. Hitting the end of the 4th cycle this week. I am using this week as a test week so I hit my 5/3/1 and then go for a PR. Saturday I am doing sq/b/dl as I plan on living/eating at the gym during a “test meet.”

Anyway, I tested my MP on Monday. I did not do as well as I had hoped. Question is this: For those of you doing something non-BBB for MP accessory work, what do you find has helped your MP? I dont believe I am getting enough volume for my shoulders just solely doing MP for 5/3/1. My temporary plan is to just add back in BBB for only MP, as my other lifts seem to do fine w/o it.

On a side note, my shoulders have gotten bigger/fuller, but just dont seem to be getting stronger. My MP is pathetic- about 66% of my BW and 55% of my bench. I really think this is a HUGE limiting factor in my bench numbers.

675

[quote]pepperman wrote:
Could someone please answer this question for me. I’ve read the book twice and have been using the program for 7 weeks. In he book it implies in the Q and A section that substitution exercises are permited such as military presses for push presses, regular deads for trap bar deads, etc. In certain threads (maybe people who haven’t bought the book) they go crazy with substitutions - I saw one guy say that he does 5/3/1 with face pulls and another who does 5/3/1 as his big exercise with pull throughs. What’s up with this? Is there a list of “permitted” replacement exercises or is it mainly common sense? I’m nearing a deload week and I would like to start back with db benches rather than BPs to give my shoulder a rest but I know the author says this is not recomended when he states paraphase - if you have to ask why you haven’t been lifting long. Just a little confused. Thanks[/quote]

Not Jim but, facepulls and pullthroughs are assistance exercises and should be treated as such. The main lift should be a variation of the big lifts outlined.

These people tweaking it so drastically seem to not get this, so they obviously shouldn’t be tweaking the program. It seems a lot of guys want to get away from hard work but still say their working out. Just my opinion.

676

[quote]pepperman wrote:
Could someone please answer this question for me. I’ve read the book twice and have been using the program for 7 weeks. In he book it implies in the Q and A section that substitution exercises are permited such as military presses for push presses, regular deads for trap bar deads, etc.

In certain threads (maybe people who haven’t bought the book) they go crazy with substitutions - I saw one guy say that he does 5/3/1 with face pulls and another who does 5/3/1 as his big exercise with pull throughs. What’s up with this? Is there a list of “permitted” replacement exercises or is it mainly common sense?

I’m nearing a deload week and I would like to start back with db benches rather than BPs to give my shoulder a rest but I know the author says this is not recomended when he states paraphase - if you have to ask why you haven’t been lifting long. Just a little confused. Thanks[/quote]

No one has used facepulls or pullthroughs with this program - at least not as main movements. These are assistance exercises. Box Squats, trap bar DL, inclines - if you are healthy these are what I would consider good options. If you are hurt (or something similar) then your list of exercises will be different. But only if you are hurt.

Other than that - stick with the basics. ALWAYS. NO QUESTIONS. NO DB’s. if your shoulders need a rest move to 3 days/week and space out the workouts more.

677

[quote]bparis wrote:
I have a question regarding loading/training maxes for my next cycle. I haven’t stalled yet on bench, military or deadlift yet but would it be a bad idea to repeat my training maxes on those lifts for another cycle and go for more reps on my final set each week? My squat continues to improve, but I feel taking the extra cycle might help in the long run. Has anyone else done this?[/quote]

This is fine.

678

[quote]Testy1 wrote:
pepperman wrote:
Could someone please answer this question for me. I’ve read the book twice and have been using the program for 7 weeks. In he book it implies in the Q and A section that substitution exercises are permited such as military presses for push presses, regular deads for trap bar deads, etc. In certain threads (maybe people who haven’t bought the book) they go crazy with substitutions - I saw one guy say that he does 5/3/1 with face pulls and another who does 5/3/1 as his big exercise with pull throughs. What’s up with this? Is there a list of “permitted” replacement exercises or is it mainly common sense? I’m nearing a deload week and I would like to start back with db benches rather than BPs to give my shoulder a rest but I know the author says this is not recomended when he states paraphase - if you have to ask why you haven’t been lifting long. Just a little confused. Thanks

Not Jim but, facepulls and pullthroughs are assistance exercises and should be treated as such. The main lift should be a variation of the big lifts outlined.

These people tweaking it so drastically seem to not get this, so they obviously shouldn’t be tweaking the program. It seems a lot of guys want to get away from hard work but still say their working out. Just my opinion.
[/quote]

Someone does 5/3/1 with facepulls? That’s retarded. What’s the point of hitting a few singles in the facepull?

679

Hey guys, how do you all progress with your assistance work? Add a small amount of weight every week? Or do you just let the four basic lifts take care of progressive overload?

680

I do BBB for assistance work on squats and deadlifts. I try to increase weight every time by 5 lbs and take more rest as I need it but not any more than necessary. This is possible because I started light.

For bench press and press, I do BBB but substitute in dips and Arnold presses. I work up to 410 + a fifth set of whatever I can squeeze out. When I get 410, I add 5 lbs or the smallest available increment and do 56 or something like that. Next week I do 57, then 58, etc., up to 510, then increase the weight and repeat. The progression is similar with the other assistance work like curls or close-grip bench press except I keep the sets around 3.

Also, I think of increasing strength on assistance work as making yogurt (or Jack Daniel’s). Don’t exhaust the whole batch; leave a little for the next time.

My logbook says this progression works.