Wendler 5/3/1 Program - pt 2.

Training Powerlifting
461

This is what I do:

Monday:
squat 5/3/1
good mornings ramped
hanging leg raises

Tuesday:
Bench 5/3/1
CG bench, CG incline, or CG 2 board ramped to 5-8 reps
DB incline ramped to 8-12 or a RP set
seated DB power cleans
seated laterals
deadskull widowmaker

Thursday:
Deadlift 5/3/1
glute ham raise 2x work sets
45’ back exention 3x12 ramped

Friday:
Overhead press 5/3/1
Lat pulldown RP set
machine lat pulldown ramped
kroc rows 1x fail
Preacher curls
preacher reverse curls
lat pulldown stretch

462

[quote]Zhelezen wrote:
Hi guys,

sorry if this has been answered but it’s a long thread and couldn’t find the answer so…

Does anyone do a standard 4-way bodybuilding split with 5/3/1 for the main lift and then 2-3 assistance movements ramped up to a heavy set over 3-4 sets ?

eg.

Bench day (chest/tris)
Bench 5/3/1
DB INC - ramp of to heavy set of 6-10
CGBP - ramp of to heavy set of 6-10
PJR pullover - ramp of to heavy set of 6-10

Squat day (legs)
Squats 5/3/1
Front squat or leg press
Leg curls or RDL’s

Military Press day(shoulders)
Military Press 5/3/1
DB Press
Lateral raises
Rear delt raise

Deadlift day (Back/bis)
Deadlift of below the knee Rackpulls 5/3/1
Lat pulldowns
Pendlay row
Standing DB curl
Preacher curl

All assistance is ramped to a heaviest set of about 6-10 reps same as outlined for Bench day.

So pretty much a typical bodybuilding split with 5/3/1 done for the big 4 lifts

How does this look ?

[/quote]

‘looks’ ok, but i dont know how I could do heavy back exercises after deadlifts, it takes me 10 minutes to catch my breath to do back raises.

I was thinking of adding in another day for back, would help or is it just a stupid idea?

it’d look like this:

day1
squat
leg press
roman chair abs
calf raises

day2
bench
CGbench or Flat DB
Inc. DB
Hammer curls
Tri pushdown

day3 - off

day4
deadlift
back raise
roman chair abs
calf raises

day5
Seated overhead press (makin no fuckin progress with standing)
log press
lat raise
Tri.Pushdown
Hammer curls

day6 - off

day7
db row
pull ups
db shrugs

463

Hi!
I will begin a 5/3/1 routine next month, and I want to combine it with learning olympic lifting.

My idea is to, for the first cycle, use the complex exercises described below for warm-up, using only the bar.

Complex 1 (catch emphasis)

Drop clean x 3
High drop clean x 3

Complex 2 (transition and second pull emphasis)

Romanian deadlift x 4
Hang high pull x 4
Jump shrug x 4

Complex 3 (full power clean progression)

Hang clean from upper thighs x 1
Hang clean above the knee x 1
Hang clean below the knee x 1
Hang clean at the ankles x 1

On the squat day, I will use front squats as an assistance exercise, incorporating power cleans into the 5/3/1 routine as I feel comfortable with them. During later cycles I will work on snatch technique for warm-up with overhead squats for squat backup, eventually incorporating snatches.

My questions are as follows:

  1. Is this a good approach, or does anybody have any suggstions on how to improve it?
  2. How can I incorporate the olympic lifts into the routine? Seeing as they are complex exercises, should I for example swap back squats for power cleans as core lift and use the squats as assistance, and could I then use 5/3/1 progression on both lifts, even though only one is core?
  3. Any comments on this three-day program? Can I use 5/3/1 progression on the military press as well, and shift the place as beginning exercise between bench and military press each cycle?

Monday
Back squats 5/3/1
Front squats and Romanian deadlifts assist

Wednesday
Bench press 5/3/1
Military press and DB chest press assist

Friday
Deadlifts 5/3/1
Chin-ups and hanging leg raises assist

464

[quote]rogernh wrote:
Hi!
I will begin a 5/3/1 routine next month, and I want to combine it with learning olympic lifting.

My idea is to, for the first cycle, use the complex exercises described below for warm-up, using only the bar.

Complex 1 (catch emphasis)

Drop clean x 3
High drop clean x 3

Complex 2 (transition and second pull emphasis)

Romanian deadlift x 4
Hang high pull x 4
Jump shrug x 4

Complex 3 (full power clean progression)

Hang clean from upper thighs x 1
Hang clean above the knee x 1
Hang clean below the knee x 1
Hang clean at the ankles x 1

On the squat day, I will use front squats as an assistance exercise, incorporating power cleans into the 5/3/1 routine as I feel comfortable with them. During later cycles I will work on snatch technique for warm-up with overhead squats for squat backup, eventually incorporating snatches.

My questions are as follows:

  1. Is this a good approach, or does anybody have any suggstions on how to improve it?
  2. How can I incorporate the olympic lifts into the routine? Seeing as they are complex exercises, should I for example swap back squats for power cleans as core lift and use the squats as assistance, and could I then use 5/3/1 progression on both lifts, even though only one is core?
  3. Any comments on this three-day program? Can I use 5/3/1 progression on the military press as well, and shift the place as beginning exercise between bench and military press each cycle?

Monday
Back squats 5/3/1
Front squats and Romanian deadlifts assist

Wednesday
Bench press 5/3/1
Military press and DB chest press assist

Friday
Deadlifts 5/3/1
Chin-ups and hanging leg raises assist[/quote]

I do 5/3/1 Power cleans before Deadlifts and Snatches before squatting. for the rest of your questions, buy and/or read the eBook, they’re all covered there. Don’t be cheap my brother, it’s worth it…

465

[quote]TheDudeAbides wrote:
coolnatedawg wrote:
TheDudeAbides wrote:
Thought I would share my results so far. The numbers don’t lie.

I also lost about 30 lbs of lard during this time. Went from a tight (muffin top) 40 inch waist, to a loose fitting 36 inch waist.

Thanks Jim

looking at your numbers, my MP is pathetic compared to my other lifts…

I also think I am eating too much to drop weight like others have. I would have thought adding in running would have balanced this out and helped, but not yet. I also think I should reduce rest intervals during accesory work (especially split squats- but they suck!) Sorry for the rant…

lol yeah well my bench and deadlift are quite pathetic, so we’re even

Since I’ve been recording my daily Calories, I eat around 2000 (sometimes more, sometimes less), burn an additional 300-500 through walking, jogging, elliptical, and 5/3/1.

To summarize JW, eat less and increase your activity.[/quote]

How long have you been doing the 2000cals? That is incredibly low!

I am trying to find that balance b/w improving cardiovascularly (wtf?) and getting bigger stronger. The whole 2 demons thing…

I should be running closer to 3+ miles soon every 2 days, and my lifts keep going up (minus the 5rep week b/c I never seem to come back very strong- maybe switch the 5 and 3 rep week?)

466

[quote]m1sf1t wrote:
Sagat wrote:
kickureface wrote:
several results indicate more strength and a decent amount of weight lost during the training time. usually, however, mass increases during the strength increase. is there any special thing about 531 that makes it the exception? surely eating a lot is required since these high rep single sets are taxing on the body, yet there is no hi-work or cardio business that would reduce the weight.

I dont think that this program is an exception, but the program is being used for a lot of people who are trying to lose fat while increasing/mantaining strength and are eating and doing conditioning for that goal. I’m sure the guys who are doing 5/3/1 and eating like a horse are gaining muscle.

Absolutely, I train for strength, size and athletic ability. So far I’m up 10 lbs. since I started 5/3/1 with no visible increase in bodyfat.

[/quote]

how did you set uo the assistance? i figure the core lifts alone wont do much without higher rep work.

467

[quote]kickureface wrote:
m1sf1t wrote:
Sagat wrote:
kickureface wrote:
several results indicate more strength and a decent amount of weight lost during the training time. usually, however, mass increases during the strength increase. is there any special thing about 531 that makes it the exception? surely eating a lot is required since these high rep single sets are taxing on the body, yet there is no hi-work or cardio business that would reduce the weight.

I dont think that this program is an exception, but the program is being used for a lot of people who are trying to lose fat while increasing/mantaining strength and are eating and doing conditioning for that goal. I’m sure the guys who are doing 5/3/1 and eating like a horse are gaining muscle.

Absolutely, I train for strength, size and athletic ability. So far I’m up 10 lbs. since I started 5/3/1 with no visible increase in bodyfat.

how did you set uo the assistance? i figure the core lifts alone wont do much without higher rep work.[/quote]

On upper-body day (bench):
5X10 Push+Pull assistance with about 70-75 % 1rm
3X12 CG Bench alternating with Curls

Upper body (Push Press + Pull ups):
5X10 Benching
Kroc Rows
3X12 Alternating DB press or flies + Face pulls

For Deads and Squat days I also do 5/3/1 power cleans and Snatches plus 2 alternating 5X10 quad/posterior chain exercises and 1 or 2 sets of abzzz.

It’s been kicking my ass to the point I wouldn’t been able to do anymore but I’m in a good groove now and improving nicely with the main lifts.

468

[quote]coolnatedawg wrote:
TheDudeAbides wrote:

Since I’ve been recording my daily Calories, I eat around 2000 (sometimes more, sometimes less), burn an additional 300-500 through walking, jogging, elliptical, and 5/3/1.

To summarize JW, eat less and increase your activity.

How long have you been doing the 2000cals? That is incredibly low!

I am trying to find that balance b/w improving cardiovascularly (wtf?) and getting bigger stronger. The whole 2 demons thing…

I should be running closer to 3+ miles soon every 2 days, and my lifts keep going up (minus the 5rep week b/c I never seem to come back very strong- maybe switch the 5 and 3 rep week?)[/quote]

Too low? According to TNation, Berardi, Shelby Starnes, and other sources it is too low. However, I have gained weight on a 2400-2600 Calorie diet. So I’m not really sure why/how I am able to make strength gains on such low amounts according to expert standards. It is what it is, I really don’t have an answer except it’s working. I have struggled with finding the ‘best’ Calorie range for a long time now. Reading articles and expert opinions … I just wasn’t losing. I honestly eat about whatever I want, eat when I’m hungry, and don’t starve myself. I eat every 2-4 hours like a good boy. So what has really helped was dropping my Cals and increasing my cardio/daily activity.

I think the trick to increasing your cardio and getting/maintaining strength is pacing yourself. Its the whole build up slowly. I really think you can do both, maybe not optimally (key word) but it can be done. I’ve lost weight and gained strength - probably not the best or most optimal plan, but it has worked and I’m happy. It has taken me longer to lose 30 lbs than if I just set out to lose the weight.

As is (now weighing 230), I can run 2 miles in under 20 minutes. I could run a third, but at a little slower pace. I’m not ‘there’ yet. So I end up walking the third mile, for a total time of 35 minutes. I can live with that amount of cardio a day or every other day. At the minimum, I try to walk 2 miles/day.

Switching the 5 and 3 weeks around? I remember reading it in the 3 Days a Week book, Matt Kroc’s log, Q & A, or somewhere else that it would be fine. I do seem to recover better/faster on the 3 and 5/3/1 days. I push myself hard, ending up with major DOMS that carry over into the second week. Without fail.

469

[quote]roofus_5 wrote:

I followed the BBB pretty close the first 3-4 waves. I will admit that the next few waves life got very busy so I was often just getting the lift in and leaving. Most recently my accessory work has been specific strongman event training. For instance, after deadlifts I do tire flipping, or farmers carry. After squat I do yoke and keg/atlas loading, etc. So I guess you can say I cycle through it somewhat.
[/quote]

Looks good, i wish i had a big tire to use in my accessory work too… :slight_smile:

470

[quote]Sagat wrote:
roofus_5 wrote:

I followed the BBB pretty close the first 3-4 waves. I will admit that the next few waves life got very busy so I was often just getting the lift in and leaving. Most recently my accessory work has been specific strongman event training. For instance, after deadlifts I do tire flipping, or farmers carry. After squat I do yoke and keg/atlas loading, etc. So I guess you can say I cycle through it somewhat.

Looks good, i wish i had a big tire to use in my accessory work too… :)[/quote]

We got lucky and came across a couple (650 and almost 800) and a gym that lets us keep them outside the building. Check around tire stores, especially ones that do farm and construction supply. They have to pay a pretty hefty disposal fee for those so they are usually more than happy to give them away.

To the Dude: At the end of your last above post you mentioned flipping the “5” week with the “3” week. You’re right, it doesn’t really matterm it’s more of a personal preference. When I bought the very first book and started back in September I did this because I noticed Jim was doing it. He took a little more “hard line” in the second book because people were obsessing on it and couldn’t wrap their heads around it.

Here’s what I found: I first started with 3’s because I figured I’d deload, do 3’s, use the 5 week to “deload” then hit the 5/3/1 week hard. What I found around the 5th or 6th wave was that my first week following deload I was pretty much just getting my reps in then I’d come back the next week of 5’s and just go nuts. So then I decided my body was more primed for good effort that second week and decided if that was the case I would rather have great sessions with my heavier sets of 3.

471

[quote]roofus_5 wrote:
Sagat wrote:
roofus_5 wrote:

I followed the BBB pretty close the first 3-4 waves. I will admit that the next few waves life got very busy so I was often just getting the lift in and leaving. Most recently my accessory work has been specific strongman event training. For instance, after deadlifts I do tire flipping, or farmers carry. After squat I do yoke and keg/atlas loading, etc. So I guess you can say I cycle through it somewhat.

Looks good, i wish i had a big tire to use in my accessory work too… :slight_smile:

We got lucky and came across a couple (650 and almost 800) and a gym that lets us keep them outside the building. Check around tire stores, especially ones that do farm and construction supply. They have to pay a pretty hefty disposal fee for those so they are usually more than happy to give them away.

To the Dude: At the end of your last above post you mentioned flipping the “5” week with the “3” week. You’re right, it doesn’t really matterm it’s more of a personal preference. When I bought the very first book and started back in September I did this because I noticed Jim was doing it. He took a little more “hard line” in the second book because people were obsessing on it and couldn’t wrap their heads around it.

Here’s what I found: I first started with 3’s because I figured I’d deload, do 3’s, use the 5 week to “deload” then hit the 5/3/1 week hard. What I found around the 5th or 6th wave was that my first week following deload I was pretty much just getting my reps in then I’d come back the next week of 5’s and just go nuts. So then I decided my body was more primed for good effort that second week and decided if that was the case I would rather have great sessions with my heavier sets of 3.
[/quote]

This is interesting, because I recently wrote in to him because my bench was stagnating. Specifically, i was still getting all my reps, but whereas I had hit 8 with 295 with it was 95% of my max (310) three months later I only got 7 when it was 90% of my max (325). I would’ve thought this was just one of those days, but it happened consistently the next month, weights being harder at 90% than at 95%. So gym advised I do the week of 3s,going all out if i feel good, do a week of 5 but ONLY do 5 (or even 3x3) and then do the 531 week, working up if i felt good. i’ve only done it for a month, but i like it

472

Question for all…

What style of deadlift you favor?? Deadstart from the floor or touch and go…

I know what is written in the book,both are fine …just as example i did 295x8 touch and go but only 295x5 with a deadstart…I think my form is very good on both but maybe its a little better with a dead start…According to Rippetoe…deadstart from the floor is the way to go…

473

Still having good results with the program. I’m on my 3rd cycle, nearing the end of it. Had a shitty 2nd cycle due to a tweaked back (still got my reps), but now I’m stronger than ever, hitting PR’s.

I’m using 10 lb jumps for big movements and 5 lb for the presses. Once I hit my previous rep PRs (for instance, my personal best before the program was 300x5 in squat. I am scheduled to do that in my 5’s week next cycle, I believe), I am going to lower the jumps to 5 and 2.5lbs. Love the slow progress on this.

I also sort of “wave” the loading. Last cycle I got more than necessary on the 5’s week but left a few in the tank, 3’s week I got the bare minimum, and tried to go all out on the 1’s week. Last week I couldn’t do any deadlift accessory work due to time, so I went all out and set a rep PR.

Love the flexibility of the program. You really can make it your own.

474

[quote]crankMAN wrote:
Question for all…

What style of deadlift you favor?? Deadstart from the floor or touch and go…

I know what is written in the book,both are fine …just as example i did 295x8 touch and go but only 295x5 with a deadstart…I think my form is very good on both but maybe its a little better with a dead start…According to Rippetoe…deadstart from the floor is the way to go…[/quote]

As you are finding, touch and go is easier than coming to a deadstop. I prefer the deadstop because I think this is a better test of a true deadlift since touch n go has more momentum than strength and I want to get strong.

475

[quote]KBCThird wrote:
roofus_5 wrote:
Sagat wrote:
roofus_5 wrote:

I followed the BBB pretty close the first 3-4 waves. I will admit that the next few waves life got very busy so I was often just getting the lift in and leaving. Most recently my accessory work has been specific strongman event training. For instance, after deadlifts I do tire flipping, or farmers carry. After squat I do yoke and keg/atlas loading, etc. So I guess you can say I cycle through it somewhat.

Looks good, i wish i had a big tire to use in my accessory work too… :slight_smile:

We got lucky and came across a couple (650 and almost 800) and a gym that lets us keep them outside the building. Check around tire stores, especially ones that do farm and construction supply. They have to pay a pretty hefty disposal fee for those so they are usually more than happy to give them away.

To the Dude: At the end of your last above post you mentioned flipping the “5” week with the “3” week. You’re right, it doesn’t really matterm it’s more of a personal preference. When I bought the very first book and started back in September I did this because I noticed Jim was doing it. He took a little more “hard line” in the second book because people were obsessing on it and couldn’t wrap their heads around it.

Here’s what I found: I first started with 3’s because I figured I’d deload, do 3’s, use the 5 week to “deload” then hit the 5/3/1 week hard. What I found around the 5th or 6th wave was that my first week following deload I was pretty much just getting my reps in then I’d come back the next week of 5’s and just go nuts. So then I decided my body was more primed for good effort that second week and decided if that was the case I would rather have great sessions with my heavier sets of 3.

This is interesting, because I recently wrote in to him because my bench was stagnating. Specifically, i was still getting all my reps, but whereas I had hit 8 with 295 with it was 95% of my max (310) three months later I only got 7 when it was 90% of my max (325). I would’ve thought this was just one of those days, but it happened consistently the next month, weights being harder at 90% than at 95%. So gym advised I do the week of 3s,going all out if i feel good, do a week of 5 but ONLY do 5 (or even 3x3) and then do the 531 week, working up if i felt good. i’ve only done it for a month, but i like it[/quote]

What does your accessory work look like? For the first 4-5 waves, I was burning myself out on the accessory work and couldn’t make any progress. Then I switched it up to be much lighter and higher reps and have been doing great ever since.

476

Just started the 531 program… one question

I am in the 5/3/1 week and just did the deadlift workout tonight. I was able to do my last set for 6 reps. And honestly it was my grip that limited me, might have another couple reps left if my grip hadn’t quit on me.

Is this to be expected? Being able to complete 6 reps (and maybe more with better conditions) on that set? Or am I lifting to light? It has been a while since I have pulled for singles so the max I am using is a couple months old, maybe that is the issue.

Wouldn’t that be awesome, if I am just stronger than I thought?

On a side note, I love the workout so far… using the boring but big template. Seems so easy, but the first couple times, especially during leg work, I am probably a set or two away from revisiting my lunch. Really fits my philosophy of taking my lifting intensity to another level.

477

[quote]dberg8907 wrote:
Just started the 531 program… one question

I am in the 5/3/1 week and just did the deadlift workout tonight. I was able to do my last set for 6 reps. And honestly it was my grip that limited me, might have another couple reps left if my grip hadn’t quit on me.

Is this to be expected? Being able to complete 6 reps (and maybe more with better conditions) on that set? Or am I lifting to light? It has been a while since I have pulled for singles so the max I am using is a couple months old, maybe that is the issue.

I based my training maxes off of actual 1RM’s that I did the week before I started the program. My Wave 1, Week 3 95% of training-max money reps were as follows: Deads-10 reps, Bench-10 reps, Squats-12 reps, Press-8 reps. My rep ranges for week 3 are consistent with other logs I have read on here. You actually may have started too heavy. You are supposed to be able to get 7-8 waves before you stall and reset your training max. Hope this helps.

Jack

478

[quote]dberg8907 wrote:
Just started the 531 program… one question

I am in the 5/3/1 week and just did the deadlift workout tonight. I was able to do my last set for 6 reps. And honestly it was my grip that limited me, might have another couple reps left if my grip hadn’t quit on me.

Is this to be expected? Being able to complete 6 reps (and maybe more with better conditions) on that set? Or am I lifting to light? It has been a while since I have pulled for singles so the max I am using is a couple months old, maybe that is the issue.

Wouldn’t that be awesome, if I am just stronger than I thought?

On a side note, I love the workout so far… using the boring but big template. Seems so easy, but the first couple times, especially during leg work, I am probably a set or two away from revisiting my lunch. Really fits my philosophy of taking my lifting intensity to another level.[/quote]

That is pretty typical, but what makes you stronger. Keep after it.

Jason

479

[quote]four60 wrote:
Firebug9 wrote:
Ok, I am looking for some assistance here. I love the 5/3/1 program, but I have three powerlifting meets in the next 4 months. One in about two weeks, another the first week of October and the last one the first week of November. These are all international meets and I am trying to get my strength back after my treatments. With all that in mind this style of training is great for me, but I am going to have to be in equipment for training. So, I am looking for suggestions.

I was thinking of using rep scheme of 3/2/1 and the BBB for assistance with maybe a couple of other assistance exercises thrown in to work on specific weaknesses. Between the first and second meet I will have 7 weeks of training, and between the second and third I will have four weeks…

Any and all help is appreciated :wink:

WOW, No resting for you huh. [/quote]

Well, no not really :wink:

So, no one has any ideas or suggestions? I am kind of at a loss here. I have lost a bit with my chemo and I will be getting radiation between the first and second meets. I know that training will be difficult but I will train. I did during chemo, even though my numbers do not really show it. I was just hoping to get some brain storming ideas so I can string together a decent 6 weeks or so of training.

thanks

480

[quote]Firebug9 wrote:
four60 wrote:
Firebug9 wrote:
Ok, I am looking for some assistance here. I love the 5/3/1 program, but I have three powerlifting meets in the next 4 months. One in about two weeks, another the first week of October and the last one the first week of November. These are all international meets and I am trying to get my strength back after my treatments. With all that in mind this style of training is great for me, but I am going to have to be in equipment for training. So, I am looking for suggestions.

I was thinking of using rep scheme of 3/2/1 and the BBB for assistance with maybe a couple of other assistance exercises thrown in to work on specific weaknesses. Between the first and second meet I will have 7 weeks of training, and between the second and third I will have four weeks…

Any and all help is appreciated :wink:

WOW, No resting for you huh.

Well, no not really :wink:

So, no one has any ideas or suggestions? I am kind of at a loss here. I have lost a bit with my chemo and I will be getting radiation between the first and second meets. I know that training will be difficult but I will train. I did during chemo, even though my numbers do not really show it. I was just hoping to get some brain storming ideas so I can string together a decent 6 weeks or so of training.

thanks[/quote]

Damn Malinda, why such a long break between competitions? :slight_smile:

I’m not qualified to be giving you training advice, but as for brain storming I’d say consider something like you said of running the 5/3/1 template in full gear and tapering your training based on how you peak best (ie. stopping deadlifts 2 weeks out, or whatever works for you).

For the assistance, stay flexible and adjust it based on how your body responds. By that I mean if you’re too fatigued lighten the load, if hips are tight maybe you do something like front squats and seated band abductors (or whatever they’re called). Basically use the assistance to assist with recovery and keep the focus on the main movements.

Again just my 2 cents.