Wendler 5/3/1 Program - pt 2.

four60 · July 9, 2009, 12:37pm

[quote]brauny96 wrote:
Cant wait to start 5/3/1, i am going to wait till football season is over, but then, I am going to do it. I hope this doesnt sound dumb, but is anyone doing the program in full gear?[/quote]

I still compete in full gear and Switched over to Wendlers 5/3/1 program. I have been doing 5/3/1 for about 4 phases now and have a meet in DEC. I will break out the gear around 3 months shy of competition but right now I’m enjoying the hell out of FEELING stronger. Its weird that something this simple gives you the over all feeling of strength.
The plan is to stay on the program all the way up to the meet. I will hit my 95%of 1 rep on the 3rd week of each training phase and instead of going for reps I will gear up and press/squat/lift so I don’t mess up my training cycles.

JPeggEFS · July 9, 2009, 1:48pm

[quote]Therizza wrote:
Rape Weight wrote:
Does he not also say that lifting in gear could work, he just can’t be arsed to figure it out himself?

Yea he did say something like that. I mean Brawny could do something like do some cycles, take the 3rd week from your last cycle before a meet and do the heavy sets in gear, deload and go to your meet. Don’t quote me or flame me for not knowing how powerlifters train with regards to gear, as that suggestion could fly in the face of geared powerlifting tenets.

Jim also mentioned about how chains and bands affect different strength curves, to the effect that they would benefit a geared lifter more than a raw one. If you want to train for geared meets why don’t you do a straight Westside template, I mean that’s predominantly what it was developed for, right?

Also, does training in gear really matter that much if your not an elite level powerlifter?[/quote]

I’m using it and training in gear. It is working VERY well for me thus far. I’m experimenting with a ton of stuff for it, but it seems that everything is working well for me thus far. Im actually writing an article about it for EFS as I do it. I’m going to wait until probably September to send it in though, as I don’t want it to be an article based on speculation and theory. It is pretty long right now, and I’m not done with it. Close to 7,000 words. Hopefully it is as well accepted as I think it will be.

Jason

four60 · July 9, 2009, 3:02pm

Mr. Pegg, arent you also using a form of shelby’s The Troponin Nutrition Macronutrient meal plan with 5/3/1. I’m in the military and with our fitness test and a DEC Meet coming up I was thinking about going on it to help me drop to another wieght class while staying strong and active. How is it working for you so far.

coolnatedawg · July 9, 2009, 3:21pm

[quote]brauny96 wrote:
Cant wait to start 5/3/1, i am going to wait till football season is over, but then, I am going to do it. I hope this doesnt sound dumb, but is anyone doing the program in full gear?[/quote]

Well you should at least take the cleats off… haahaha. sorry, im a lame ass.

Anyway, I normally compete in gear, but I wanted to do this program for the exact reason mentioned- to get stronger raw. I had an issue with not being able to control some of my gear b/c I just did not feel strong enough. However, the first “cycle” I used some loose powerpants to help the transition to raw squatting as they normally hurt. Now I squat just fine w/o them.

There were a couple articles posted on Elite about using gear (altho it was talking bench shirts), perhaps you can derive something useful from that article? I know, for me personally, when I do plan on competing in gear again, I will just build my own program to prep for it. In the meantime tho, I want to learn to bench 590…

coolnatedawg · July 9, 2009, 3:31pm

Here is the article I am talking about. See if you can make something using the principles incorporated here. http://www.elitefts.com/documents/531bench.htm

Therizza- Yessir, altho I am going to be relocating out towards Leesburg soon, so I am in search of a gym to use during the week. (will still travel to current gym on Saturdays)

four60- I was thinking about where to train in DC, and I really dont know if Clarendon is considered part of DC or not, but there is a place right next to Clarendon Grill that had some racks and EliteFTS glute ham raises that I noticed one night when I was out- I think they also do some Crossfit style stuff- those are typically PL friendly. Of course, for all I know, they are simply a retail outlet of sorts.

Are you doing military PL meets? I am very interested in this as I will hopefully be in soon…

four60 · July 9, 2009, 5:29pm

[quote]coolnatedawg wrote:
Here is the article I am talking about. See if you can make something using the principles incorporated here. http://www.elitefts.com/documents/531bench.htm

Therizza- Yessir, altho I am going to be relocating out towards Leesburg soon, so I am in search of a gym to use during the week. (will still travel to current gym on Saturdays)

four60- I was thinking about where to train in DC, and I really dont know if Clarendon is considered part of DC or not, but there is a place right next to Clarendon Grill that had some racks and EliteFTS glute ham raises that I noticed one night when I was out- I think they also do some Crossfit style stuff- those are typically PL friendly. Of course, for all I know, they are simply a retail outlet of sorts.

Are you doing military PL meets? I am very interested in this as I will hopefully be in soon…[/quote]

Doing the AAU Military Nationals in DEC want to build up my power before I do another meet. So I stopped what I was doing (which was just a little of this “WSB template for Sqauts” a little of that “Ed Coan type training for bench and Deadlift” and getting no where)

Bought the 5/3/1 and put the gear away for a while and thought hell If this does nothing but make me all over stronger how could that hurt. So far I’m loving it.
The first 3 phases 5/3/1 I did not use the .0333 and just said ok on a good day I can do a 540 deadlift knocked 30lbs off an used 95% of that to work out the formula the problem with that was EGO got in the way and it worked for Bench&Squat but deads didn’t move as much. So used the formula for 4 and feel like i"m on the road to the right track.

Going into 5 phases I think and now my 95% Work numbers are looking like this:
Military Press -95% of 220
Squat-95% of 455
Deadlift-95% of 500
Bench-95% of 384

Lets see what happens.

jsdool · July 9, 2009, 5:42pm

[quote]coolnatedawg wrote:
Here is the article I am talking about. See if you can make something using the principles incorporated here. http://www.elitefts.com/documents/531bench.htm…[/quote]

Ummm…and this resembles Wendler’s 5/3/1 how?

Goodfellow · July 9, 2009, 6:19pm

I’m having a fucking load of trouble trying to progress with Military Press right now.

I think im overshooting what weight I can use on it. On my 3x5 day, I only managed to get 3 reps on the final set. So I kept the same weight for 3x3 and got 4 reps. Then today (5/3/1) I added 5lb onto the weight I had been using, and only got 1 rep.

I’m guessing I should re-calculate and use a lower weight so I can get more reps?

coolnatedawg · July 9, 2009, 6:32pm

uh… i read it forever ago but remembered it had been written. looking back on it now (and actually reading what I posted), it does not really follow 5/3/1. so i guess thats my bad, i apologize.

anyway, obviously for geared work you are going to have to take some liberties with the program- this, of course, makes it something else- not 5/3/1. so for geared lifting, there may be better routes than following this program.

if you are all gung-ho about it tho, i am sure you could find a way to incorporate gear into it- apparently true if JPegg is workin on it.

but for brauny, I would say you should stick to the regular format as is anyway. just do it after your meet…

tw0scoops2 · July 9, 2009, 10:34pm

What does the e-book from elitefts have that I would need, that the general outline of the program doesn’t have?

coolnatedawg · July 9, 2009, 6:37pm

[quote]Goodfellow wrote:
I’m having a fucking load of trouble trying to progress with Military Press right now.

I think im overshooting what weight I can use on it. On my 3x5 day, I only managed to get 3 reps on the final set. So I kept the same weight for 3x3 and got 4 reps. Then today (5/3/1) I added 5lb onto the weight I had been using, and only got 1 rep.

I’m guessing I should re-calculate and use a lower weight so I can get more reps?[/quote]

well, using your last week, technically you got the prescribed reps. But obviously your 5 week didnt go so well. Some would say either run the weights through the next cycle again, but if it were me, I would probably re-calc and start over. Most likely, even if you do slightly better next cycle, chances are that will be it and you will need to recalc anyway. slow and steady…

Therizza · July 9, 2009, 6:45pm

read the faq about how to handle stalling. or start going up by 2.5 lbs. and you add 5 lbs to your max, then take 90% of that, and then apply the formulas.

four60 · July 9, 2009, 7:01pm

[quote]Goodfellow wrote:
I’m having a fucking load of trouble trying to progress with Military Press right now.

I think im overshooting what weight I can use on it. On my 3x5 day, I only managed to get 3 reps on the final set. So I kept the same weight for 3x3 and got 4 reps. Then today (5/3/1) I added 5lb onto the weight I had been using, and only got 1 rep.

I’m guessing I should re-calculate and use a lower weight so I can get more reps?[/quote]

Ok I’m not sure I may be reading to much into your post but are you adding 5lbs becuase that is what it should have been (meaning that it took you back to 95% of your 1rm for that phase.
Basically and I can only use myself as an example if I have a bad first outing I keep the program moving each weak going from % to % and from 5(+)reps on the first week to 1(+)reps on the last week of the cycle, and add the 5lbs on the next phase.

four60 · July 9, 2009, 7:05pm

[quote]Goodfellow wrote:
I’m having a fucking load of trouble trying to progress with Military Press right now.

I think im overshooting what weight I can use on it. On my 3x5 day, I only managed to get 3 reps on the final set. So I kept the same weight for 3x3 and got 4 reps. Then today (5/3/1) I added 5lb onto the weight I had been using, and only got 1 rep.

I’m guessing I should re-calculate and use a lower weight so I can get more reps?[/quote]

But in the end if you feel you over estimated then maybe you did. Try using the .0333 formula and 95% of that for your lifts then move up each phase 5lbs each phase.
I’m still learning myslef. I think I finally get what Wendler meant by LEARNING TO STRAIN THRU THE BENCH.

jsdool · July 9, 2009, 8:05pm

Goodfellow, why did you add 5lb during 5/3/1 (Week 3). Shouldn’t you have waited until after the Deload in Week 4 and then add weight for the next cycle?

I think all this may have worked out if you would have stuck to your original plan. I am assuming that the reps you are referring to were all for the last set. If you would have kept to the original weights, I bet you would have made 5/5/4, 3/3/3 and 5/3/1. You missed one rep and didn’t achieve extra reps on the last set but this doesn’t seem to shabby. You then have deload week to recover. Now, if you start a new cycle and add 5lb and start missing reps, then maybe you need to back off on the weight, eat more, more sleep, etc.

mjnewland · July 9, 2009, 8:35pm

[quote]brauny96 wrote:
Bchamp wrote:
motherofpearl wrote:
brauny96 wrote:
Cant wait to start 5/3/1, i am going to wait till football season is over, but then, I am going to do it. I hope this doesnt sound dumb, but is anyone doing the program in full gear?

Not for dynamic days. You know you are not supposed to right?

brauny96: One of the philosophies behind this program is to get stronger without gear. That’s why Jim developed this program, we wanted to get stronger without the aid of powerlifting gear (page 7, first paragraph).

If you haven’t done so already, take $20 and buy the e-book.

well yes I read it, I was just seeing who was doing it in gear, damn I want to do it, but I also have a meet in like March which is the APF state meet. I guess I’ll do it after the state meet
[/quote]

skinny jason pegg keeps threatening to write an article at elitefts.com called “5/3/1 for the Gearwhore”. pester him on his log about it. it was supposed to be done a month ago.

TheDudeAbides · July 9, 2009, 8:39pm

[quote]tom8658 wrote:
TheDudeAbides wrote:
tom8658 wrote:
TheDudeAbides wrote:
Any iPhone owners interested in making a 5/3/1 app? It would function similar to some of the spreadsheets floating around on the Interwebz.

Isn’t the dev kit $100? If I knew I could recoup the fee, I would be willing to do it when I get my iPhone, it would be very useful app.

looks free to me

You’re right, I was looking at this:

Now I just need an iPhone.[/quote]

Well I have an iPhone (work) so I might give it a try. Looks like it comes with an iPhone simulator, so you don’t actually need to have one to write a program.

I have a couple different spreadsheets I would base it off of, one of them from “old lard” mjnewland. He has mad Excel skillz

tom8658 · July 9, 2009, 9:28pm

[quote]TheDudeAbides wrote:
tom8658 wrote:
TheDudeAbides wrote:
tom8658 wrote:
TheDudeAbides wrote:
Any iPhone owners interested in making a 5/3/1 app? It would function similar to some of the spreadsheets floating around on the Interwebz.

Isn’t the dev kit $100? If I knew I could recoup the fee, I would be willing to do it when I get my iPhone, it would be very useful app.

looks free to me

You’re right, I was looking at this:

Now I just need an iPhone.

Well I have an iPhone (work) so I might give it a try. Looks like it comes with an iPhone simulator, so you don’t actually need to have one to write a program.

I have a couple different spreadsheets I would base it off of, one of them from “old lard” mjnewland. He has mad Excel skillz :)[/quote]

You have to be running OS X to use the iPhone SDK. Not surprising, but disappointing. I guess it’s time I got around to installing a VM anyway.

Goodfellow · July 9, 2009, 9:57pm

[quote]jsdool wrote:
Goodfellow, why did you add 5lb during 5/3/1 (Week 3). Shouldn’t you have waited until after the Deload in Week 4 and then add weight for the next cycle?

I think all this may have worked out if you would have stuck to your original plan. I am assuming that the reps you are referring to were all for the last set. If you would have kept to the original weights, I bet you would have made 5/5/4, 3/3/3 and 5/3/1. You missed one rep and didn’t achieve extra reps on the last set but this doesn’t seem to shabby. You then have deload week to recover. Now, if you start a new cycle and add 5lb and start missing reps, then maybe you need to back off on the weight, eat more, more sleep, etc.[/quote]

No I don’t think I came across clearly. And a couple of people have mis-interpereted it.

Here’s exactly what I have been doing for my military presses:

I had been repping 135lbs (60kg) for 2-4 reps for 2 weeks before I started doing 5/3/1.

So, when I did 5/3/1, I put 154lb (70kg) as my 1RM, as I felt I could easily do that if I had to (only an extra quarter plate each side).

For week 1, on my final set I was supposed to use 59.5kg (rounded it up to 60kg) for 5 reps. I only managed 3 reps…

For week 2, I was supposed to use 63kg (rounded it down to 60kg) for 3 reps. I managed 4 reps.

For week 3, I was supposed to use 66.5kg
At the rate I had been going, I knew i would barely get 1 rep out of it. And since I had been using 60kg for the past 4 god damn weeks in a row, I thought i’d add 5-6lbs so I’d be using a different weight than the past 2 weeks.

So for week 3, I used 62.5kg (140ish lbs), and only got 1 fucking rep.

So as you can see, i’ve made hardly any progress on military presses in 5 weeks (2 of those were before I got onto 5/3/1)

The day before though I got a huge PR on my deadlifts so I may of been fatigued from that. Even so, I’m weak as shit on military press.

I bench 225lbs for 6ish, squat 315lb for 2 and deadlifted 350lbs for 4

jjackkrash · July 9, 2009, 10:26pm

[quote]Goodfellow wrote:
jsdool wrote:
Goodfellow, why did you add 5lb during 5/3/1 (Week 3). Shouldn’t you have waited until after the Deload in Week 4 and then add weight for the next cycle?