I think if you read the OP’s post again you will draw the conclusion that he is not (yet) a competitive “strength athlete” regardless of the forum he chose to post in.
I can see your point about altering the firing patterns, and I drew the same conclusion when I first read that McGill paper. I wouldn’t argue with it, either, not as an underlying principle anyway.
However, after some influence from Paul Chek, I felt that I was getting enough practise with the belt using it for all back squats >85% of 1RM. I squat a lot.
At my current (novice) level, this is working for me. Actually, my belted form feels far more solid since I stopped relying on the belt below 85% of 1RM. I had a weak core.
I think most of us need all the core strength we can get. Plus, I do stuff other than PL so beltless “functional” strength (for want of a better term) is pretty important, particularly with my long history of back injury.
I think I do as much accessory work as most people, more than a lot of people. It all helps.
A more experienced lifter may get different results and a different individual may have different requirements.
If someone has just picked up “an old weight belt in the corner” and tried it on for the first time (then surprised at the result!), I can comfortably assume they need some time learning to stiffen up their core without it before they start becoming reliant upon it.
I think the judgements about my opinion made by some others earlier were a bit premature, this is not a “gear vs no gear” debate or something dumb like that.
I am a fan of Dr. McGill, am familiar with his work and would agree that a belt should not be used for the majority of training. That said-This is a Strength Sports Forum, and as such Strength Athletes ‘when appropriate’ use the “tools of the trade”. Belts, wraps, chalk, etc. You mentioned belts are O.K. for maximum lifts in a post prior to the one I’m quoting above. Dr. McGill’s objections to belts are based on his belief that a belt alters the firing patterns(I tend to agree).
I learned this not too long ago when after squatting without a belt for a long time I used it on my 1RM beltless. To my surprise I almost missed the lift because it felt weird and the belt dug into my sides at the bottom when I assumed it would be easier. Like the others have stated it seems to be best to mix it up.
DragnCarry…
It is because the original post was from an un-informed; that simple "Dogmatic’ statements like “yes the belt interferes with low back training-use only for max or near max attempts” may not help much. When others point out that your answer may be incomplete, you post from McGill to shore up your position. If you’re helping the guy out…explain what the belt does, explain McGill beliefs , why some use it more than others, discuss strength development relative to body-weight. You mention using the belt at 85% and above.
I don’t where you’re at; but 85% of 320 is 272(1.360xBW for a 200lb lifter)years later this lifters max may be 600lb. 85% is 510lb (2.55xBW). You may need the belt for the last couple of warm-ups as well as above 85%. Maybe something like “You should avoid using a belt for your squats and deadlifts until you are getting to twice your body-weight because…”
I have seen some of the strongest men in the world (literally) at the strongman competition this week and thay are all wearing weight belts. If you want to see any pics go to www.wvexecutive.com/blog
The competition is being held this week in Charleston, wv.
Why does everybody have to think in such absolutes?
Use a belt when you need it, and leave it off when you don’t. Don’t use it for every set of every lift, and don’t be afraid to put it on when the weights get heavy. Note that heavy is a very relative term and you will have to decide for yourself where that point is.
Will it take away from some of your back and ab isolation? Of course. Can you overcome this? Absolutely.
The one point I think that really needs to be added to this is that if you decide to only use a belt when you max, make sure you have at least trained a bit with the belt so that you know how to properly use it and are accustomed to its feel.
Training without a belt for a long period and then throwing it on for one rep is a sure-fire way to throw you out of your groove.
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
If you’re helping the guy out…explain what the belt does, explain McGill beliefs , why some use it more than others, discuss strength development relative to body-weight. You mention using the belt at 85% and above.
[/quote]
Thanks for your opinion. I’m satisfied with the answer I gave, there is no concrete prescription to give and I believe his question was answered adequately.
As this is an open forum, and the question was not directed solely at me in private correspondence, others are free to include their educated opinions too.
This system works, I just like it better when people voice their opinion without implying that someone else’s opinion is “ludicrous” or “hilarious”.
i get about 475lbs out of my belt for squats, about 550lbs for deads, and 405lbs on bench:) i wear my belt on all sets from 225 and up on squats, 135 on deads and bench. My groove is totally diffent without it.
[quote]tedro wrote:
Why does everybody have to think in such absolutes?
Use a belt when you need it, and leave it off when you don’t. Don’t use it for every set of every lift, and don’t be afraid to put it on when the weights get heavy. Note that heavy is a very relative term and you will have to decide for yourself where that point is.
Will it take away from some of your back and ab isolation? Of course. Can you overcome this? Absolutely.
The one point I think that really needs to be added to this is that if you decide to only use a belt when you max, make sure you have at least trained a bit with the belt so that you know how to properly use it and are accustomed to its feel.
Training without a belt for a long period and then throwing it on for one rep is a sure-fire way to throw you out of your groove.[/quote]
As much as I hate to say this, that’s probably the best post on the thread!!
I used to be part of the anti belt cult. I believed wearing one would make me a weakling and hurt my back in the long run.
I dont wear it often but I do use it during heavy squats, and I find it helps me keep my back upright and puts less pressure on it, it basically allows me to focus on my legs.
People have said to me what can you squat without a belt, as if to imply that the only reason I can squat more is cause the belt helps or does the work for me.
I always say to them, well lets throw the belt inside the power rack and see what it can lift by itself then.
I rest my case.
Wear it when you feel like it can help you when going heavy, when you dont need it then dont use it.
[quote]Hanley wrote:
tedro wrote:
Why does everybody have to think in such absolutes?
Use a belt when you need it, and leave it off when you don’t. Don’t use it for every set of every lift, and don’t be afraid to put it on when the weights get heavy. Note that heavy is a very relative term and you will have to decide for yourself where that point is.
Will it take away from some of your back and ab isolation? Of course. Can you overcome this? Absolutely.
The one point I think that really needs to be added to this is that if you decide to only use a belt when you max, make sure you have at least trained a bit with the belt so that you know how to properly use it and are accustomed to its feel.
Training without a belt for a long period and then throwing it on for one rep is a sure-fire way to throw you out of your groove.
As much as I hate to say this, that’s probably the best post on the thread!!
[/quote]
I believe that is exaclty my point…without implying that anyone else was incorrect.
[quote]Hanley wrote:
tedro wrote:
Why does everybody have to think in such absolutes?
Use a belt when you need it, and leave it off when you don’t. Don’t use it for every set of every lift, and don’t be afraid to put it on when the weights get heavy. Note that heavy is a very relative term and you will have to decide for yourself where that point is.
Will it take away from some of your back and ab isolation? Of course. Can you overcome this? Absolutely.
The one point I think that really needs to be added to this is that if you decide to only use a belt when you max, make sure you have at least trained a bit with the belt so that you know how to properly use it and are accustomed to its feel.
Training without a belt for a long period and then throwing it on for one rep is a sure-fire way to throw you out of your groove.
As much as I hate to say this, that’s probably the best post on the thread!!