can someone direct me to any studies (not “war on drugs” propoganda) that actually demonstrate a meaningful decrease in test levels?
Stop demonizing weed everybody. If you blow a reefer on the weekends it’s not gonna affect your progress at all. Now booze can beat up your results badly and is far more destructive and unhealthy than weed. Hell, even tabaco is more damaging than weed! Not that I can’t pop a bunch of Heiniken every now and then, but you cannot make it a frequent habbit. Not to mention all the smokers who were in good shape.
Of course if you’re a weed junkie who smokes often, then why the jiz are you even interested in weighttraining in the first place? Otherwise it’s not as bad as some people make it out to be.
You haven’t lived unless you’ve smoked out of a 500lb bong.
Right?
[quote]vroom wrote:
I don’t think you can blame weed for turning folks into brainless zombies. If you want to party, play video games and live with a total lack of drive and discipline, it won’t take weed to do it.
We need to relax about the concept of drugs and how they all kill you, like ephedra. What a crock of shit. Some substances, drugs or not, are dangerous and some aren’t. It isn’t dangerous merely because the authorities deem it a controlled substance.
Just don’t get addicted to it. If it interferes with your life in some way, lack of drive or discipline, financial drain, bad eating habits, drop it like a stone. That goes for booze too.[/quote]
I am going to blame weed for turning some friends into brainless zombies. Sorry, quit trying to defend the stuff, the pharmacology is consistently shown to cause intelligence loss and loss of drive. I have seen several studies that verify that occurance. Don’t try to group ephedra in with weed, that is really stupid. I used ephedra and loved the product, have since switched to the ROX and am doing even better. No, weed won’t kill you, but saying just don’t get hooked is lame. Rolling the dice on whether you get hooked or not is dangerous, be smart with your drug use, if you learn, you will see what drugs make your life better(test, ephedra, metformin and GH) and which will destroy you(smoking, weed, heroin, coke and meth). For a selfrespecting T-MAN, how could you use the destructive ones, they are life-destroyers.
There may not be any studies showing a decrease in Test but there are plenty of studies that show that THC is an estrogen mimicker.If you think soy is something to avoid, would you go looking for something that has the highest possible levels of the active ingredients in soy that have an estrogenic effect and pay out the nose for it? I wouldnt. As far as some Great Bodybuilders smoking up and staying on training? They shoot more synthetic test and fat strippers than any 10 of us have naturaly. The best way to find out for yourself would be to put it down and train for about 6 months without any. That means none, for 6 months.
[quote]StevenF wrote:
YOU’RE AN IDIOT. [/quote]
That’s a bit harsh.
First off, smoking once in a while (i.e. once a week) isn’t going to derail your training. You gotta live. Besides, who wants to look like Ronnie Coleman, or even try to be hyyooooge like him. Chicks don’t dig that.
Second, smoking weed is a pleasureable activity.
Third. MANY chicks like smoking weed. Tons of them. Seriously. Getting nekkid when stoned is one of life’s finer pleasures.
Y’all are funny. Like someone said, alcohol and tobacco will do much more damage to your body than THC. As long as your training is in check and it doesn’t interfere with your nutrition/workout habits, then your fine. From reading the responses on this thread, it doesn’t appear that anyone knows any professional athletes, let me just say you would be so friggin surprised if you knew not only some athletes but medical professionals, cops, judges, teachers, etc. Not saying all or most do drugs, but your ignorant if you think they don’t and its only the ‘lazy’, ‘loser’, ‘stoners’, who do.
RIT Jared wrote:
“You haven’t lived unless you’ve smoked out of a 500lb bong. Right?”
He-he.
Mack wrote:
“Not saying all or most do drugs, but your ignorant if you think they don’t and its the ‘lazy’, ‘loser’, ‘stoners’, who do.”
Mack, I’m sure there are many successful weed-smokers out there. But just like Clark Call was talking about, I too (and probably many of you) have rediculous stories of friends going to smoke out instead of attending an important function (i.e. missing a final exam to go get high). Bottom line; smoking weed on occassion probably isn’t the worse thing in the world, but I don’t have a whole lot of respect for people getting high on a daily basis. And unfortunately, many occasional weed smokers turn into chronic smokers.
Danny
pharmacology is consistently shown to cause intelligence loss and loss of drive
Boollashit! Can you show us this research please? I mean, maybe WHILE you’re stoned but the only evidence of deleterious effects that I’ve seen in the literature is slower decision making skills and more risk of spontaneous DNA mutation. The lower T myths sounds like something straight from an anti-drugs propaganda unit.
Original poster - if you’re worried give it up. If you think you’re fine and it’s not negatively affecting your life, then you’re fine. Don’t worry about it.
I will admit that some ppl ruin their lives with weed but that also happens with tobacco, alcohol, steroids, painkillers… the list goes on and on. You can’t blame a drug for the individual’s actions, it’s their choice to abuse the drug.
Everyone’s responsible for their own actions. To blame a substance for their mistakes or subsequent path is a copout for losers who cannot control themselves.
Still no reply from GOD…
Don’t you guys see? This dude is a troll. Don’t even give him the satisfaction of arguing over this crap.
I just wanted to chime in and share a small story about tonight…
I usually workout around 6:00p.m. or so at night, but tonight we had our company x-mas party so I couldn’t get there in time. I was going to skip it altogether, and just pick up tomorrow, so I went home and got high(as I usually do nightly before bed). When midnight rolled around(still high as a kite because I had smoked twice) I got the most wicked urge to go to the gym and do my back workout. The pumps you get when you’re high are unreal. I had a great workout, and I found it very easy to make that mind-muscle connection that I think too many people neglect these days. I am not suggesting that ANYONE do this, but it just goes to show(even if I am the exception rather than the rule) that sometimes weed can actually motivate.
Bottom Line, smoke or no smoke, train hard and eat well, you’ll be fine either way.
TF
i’m suprised at the lack knowledge about
pot on this thread. anyone says that smoking pot will kill you is wrong, thus if you smoke 1lb(example) in one
night you cannot die and mosy likely still be high the next day. by the same token if you drink alcohol 1 gallon(example) in one night you will die and be in a morgue the same night. there are
a few medical necessity use for pot. far as i know there hasn’t been a major
pot study since the late 60’s and 70’s
and common knowledge is that pot is stronger since then. physically it is
not addictive however mental side that is another matter…alcohol, opiates,(pills, heroin) are both mental and physically addictive. pot has been demonized greatly as true for any other
drug illegal or legal. for those with
friends with problems be their friend if they ask for help if not, doesn’t give you the to right to treat them as less then human. again just what i picked up over the years and i haven’t smoked pot over 7yrs, far as drinking
goes maybe a 12 pack once a year. so now working out is my drug and enjoy it.
i like being a member of t-nation and sometimes i dont but that just me and my 2 cents.
Barton
What follows is the opinion of an old guy who has never smoked anything:
Wideguy and vroom expressed very reasoned opinions–I said to myself–but then tfrench said something that got me really thinking.
The best numbers I’ve ever had on deadlifts were on days when I went to the gym feeling a pronounced lack of sleep, but didn’t want to miss a workout. I attributed this to the lack of mental edge getting me past the annoying internal voice that always says things like “That’s too much weight.” or “Your lower back is too tight for this to be a good idea.” or “Remember, if it’s too heavy, just drop it.”
Perhaps a lack of sleep, or a recent alcoholic drink, or a recent joint (or a Valium?) can send you to your workout feeling less anxious, allowing your body to “just do it.” Of course, meditation or Zen philosophy would probably accomplish the same, with no physical drawbacks.
And notice that tfrench and I are talking about working out with moves that don’t involve heavy weight being held over our ribcages or heads. Deads are one thing when loopy, bench pressing would be another.
That’s all I wanted to say.
It probably depends on the weed. Some weed gives you an “up” feeling, and some of it gives you a “down” feeling. It could depend on the strain or when it was harvested. I remember back when I was young and stupid at age 16 and did lots of research on it, because I grew it (smoked it once or twice surprisenly). Now, there is no point to smoke it. Smoke is bad for the lungs, no matter what. Smoking a piece of paper is bad for you. I don’t think cigarettes are better then weed (even though they say it is) because in cigs, you have 2000 chemicals, while weed is all natural. If you think weed gives you a good pump, then thats awesome, but there are draw backs to it, of course.
Just smoke weed and be merry.
I will just say this: I’ve seen it ruin a lot more people than it will ever help. I think you will find this to be a trend.
I found a couple of articles where Dr. Berardi mentions marijuana.
First, from a Gang of Five article:
Q. Ready for another excuse to smoke pot? Since the stress hormone cortisol is responsible for so many catabolic actions in the body, would something like marijuana that reduces stress help counteract it?
A. This kind of “narrow” thinking and tunnel vision is just what gets people into trouble. Why do people always try to turn a negative behavior into something seemingly positive? Is it to justify the behavior? Is it to twist their perspective so that they don’t have to recognize the harm they’re doing to themselves? Whatever the reason, it gets on my nerves. Then again, maybe I should just cool down and go smoke a joint. My stress level is getting high (no pun intended) and I don’t want to get all catabolic (yes, this is sarcasm).
Listen, you have to understand that the body is a complex physiological unit that works as an integrated whole. One part does not work independently of another. So although smoking pot may relax you and reduce your “perceived stress”, does this mean that your adrenal gland (the source of stress hormones) will be less active? Probably not. Marijuana contains a whole host of physiological “toxins” that do a relatively good job “stressing out” your physiology in other ways including causing some negative changes to heart, lung, and brain function. I won’t even waste time listing all the potential physiological problems that may be associated with marijuana use since a simple internet search will list them for you. However here is a quote taken from the web site of Dr.Oscar Cabrera, a psychology and narcotics trafficking expert and professor at the University of Houston.
“Marijuana can be termed “harmless” in the sense that it has never been directly linked to any deaths. However, smoking of marijuana (the most popular method of ingestion) has been linked to memory loss, transitory sexual impotence, lung cancer, inattentiveness, and lower testosterone levels, which contribute to male infertility. This last effect has the greatest significance for adolescent males going through the pubertal process, because interference with the body’s distribution of testosterone could lead to short- and long-term behavioral and physiological aberrations. Additionally, some individuals using marijuana (especially those using the drug for the first time) experience severe panic or anxiety attacks. Although marijuana does not have the same potential for psychological and/or physiological dependence as cocaine or heroin, it still retains a significant potential to induce psychological dependence.”
In addition, normal physiological concentrations of cortisol do not cause muscle catabolism anyway. Again, the body is pretty smart and produces stress hormones for a good reason. Taking any drug or supplement designed to decrease resting cortisol concentrations is unlikely to do anything to increase your muscle mass. So even if marijuana did decrease resting cortisol concentrations that would have very little effect on muscle growth.
Am I against smoking marijuana? No. But I certainly don’t believe that smoking marijuana will enhance your muscle-building efforts. And I certainly don’t think that you should justify your pot habits based on weight lifting grounds.
Here?s another excerpt from Dr. Berardi?s aricle, The Big T ? Part II
You don’t drink? Well here is just a list of other drugs that decrease T levels in one way or another:(3,4,25)
- Aspirin
- Marijuana
- Codeine
- Opioids like Morphine, Methadone, and Heroin
…In summary, for maximum T, be cautious of how you use alcohol, marijuana, and painkillers.
For you tokers out there, sorry, but weed does decrease T levels. And if you don’t believe someone like John Berardi, then you are in denial and nothing or nobody will convince you otherwise.
[quote]Wideguy wrote:
This has been posted SOOOO many fucking times before! So I’ll be direct and to the point.
-
There is no proof that I or anyone else has shown here or on any of the other boards that I’ve seen this topic posted that show real evidence that weed lowers test levels or raises estrogen.
-
There are in fact cells in your body that look identical to THC. That in mind some argue that it is nowhere near as foreign a substance/damaging (especially in terms of muscle growth) as ALCHOHOL).
-
Smoke is the byproduct of FIRE. That said it will burn your lungs if you breath it in and certain types of smoke contain nasty chemicals that can cause all sorts of respiratory problems, ie lung cancer.
-
Certain drugs effect certain people differently than others. For example, I can smoke a fat-ass-muthafuckin blunt of haze and walk in the gym thinking I’m a demon warlord ready to rape, pillage, and burn all those who doubt me. In other words, I have a very intense workout. On the other hand someone might take a single puff of a joint and find themselves singing along to the latest Britney Spears song that they have blasting over the gym pa (in other words they are turned into a braindead fucktard).
In summation, is smoking weed healthy? No, it’s not. Will it have any effect on your bodybuilding progress? Depends on you. BTW, granted this board has a generally low opinion of pro BB’s. BUUT, I know quite a few of them smoke weed. FUCK, the governor of CA smoked weed on video while talking about pussy. Now that’s hardcore. LMFAO![/quote]
That was a great fucking post, especially the part about Arnold. Mr. Olympia burning a doobie, it obviously didn’t hurt his progress.
On a serious note, I think it would depend on the amount. If you’re smoking out like Bob Marley it’s probably going to effect you negatively in your training. If its moderate to sparse use, if your just training for health and to look good, it probably won’t.
For you tokers out there, sorry, but weed does decrease T levels. And if you don’t believe someone like John Berardi, then you are in denial and nothing or nobody will convince you otherwise.
I’ve heard this several times now, the part about lowered T-levels from weed. My question, and this is one that I would really like for someone to produce a study on, is how signicant is the decrease in natural testosterone? I would venture to guess that if your T-levels are in what is considered “the normal range” or natural physiological range, moderate use of pot isn’t going to have a dramatic effect on you. I smoke and I still grow quite a bit. I’ve managed to add 40 lbs. over the last 4 years and still smoke regularly. I won’t argue that it is good for you, I’m just saying I doubt that it is that bad. I think Dr. JB is a little more upset with people who try to defend smoking by making up shit about how helpful it can be. This is pure crap and these people are wackjobs. Make no mistake, there are assholes out there who ruin it for us potheads by becoming lazy sacks of shit once they’re high. I hate that more than anything. They perpetuate the stereotypes of weed smokers that cause the majority of the poopulatoin to continue to piegeon-hole people like me who, besides continuing to have a college education, a successful career, a solid training regimen, focused diet, and a hot girlfriend, still manage to smoke as much as often as I like. As has been said a few times, maybe not in these exact words:
“In almost every single case, too much of any one thing is bad, but no one thing used in moderation is too bad”
On a side note, I was the lucky recipient of a Holiday bag that knocked my socks off, crystals, red buds and hairs, stunk like a skunk’s asshole…mmmmmm the good shit!
1 oz. = 1 bud (11 inches long and 5 inches around…the weed that is) Extremely Pretty!
TF