This sounds like the opposite of “very slow progress” to me.
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It is still my opinion a person can make phenomenal gains without following Wendler’s philosophy. I made pretty good gains before Wendler existed.
I am in no way arguing against that.
I feel that I frequently struggle to communicate my thoughts and ideas with you. If there is any way I can better express myself, please let me know how I could accomplish that.
It is very slow when you input the actual numbers here. We’re talking OP hitting that many reps with like 110 lb. That will minimally carry over to bumping his 1rm compared to just a linear progression where he can bump the weight 5-10lb every week on sets of 3-5. Not to mention form degradation that is pretty much guaranteed for a beginner who hasn’t fine tuned the motor control of the movements yet.
This feels like arguing that increasing how many push-ups you can do will go a long way for improving your bench press numbers. Yeah, it is “progress” if you add reps, but it’s not suited to the OPs goal of increasing his bench.
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Simply put, IMO, the number of learning curves placed on the beginner should be the simplest ones. He needs to focus on the basics and master them first.
What good is “5-3-1” for squats if the beginner is incapable of squatting efficiently (his best bar path and form) even a single rep.
If I am not mistaken, you train at your home. The typical gym has far more than 50% of the squatters who are in no position to improve their maximum squat doing their current convoluted squatting form.
For whatever reason, all of the responders of this thread believe they have something to contribute to the OP. I fell into the same trap. Everyone, and I mean everyone, who I helped improve their strength or physique prior to joining T-Nation, I did so after “watching” them in the gym, lifting weights.
I don’t feel that anything you have said disagrees with anything I have written. Jim says exactly this about 5/3/1. The reps are to be crisp and sharp. They are owned.
Once again: I do not understand where our communication break down is occurring
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How much latitude is there within Wendler’s 5-3-1?
I have seen extensive accusations that people were preforming 5-3-1 improperly. The more “like comments” seems to present 5-3-1 as a rigid program that needs precise adherence.
Is my representation incorrect?
Beginner programs have vast numbers of variations that produce excellent results.
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Incredibly so. 5/3/1 is ultimately a set of principles to guide training. 5/3/1 Forever alone has 50 different programs based off the principles. Jim is very much about doing what works, exemplified in his weekly q&a.
I just think someone going from 120 x 1 to 110 x 20-30 in a couple months is spectacular progress. Is it the most efficient way to increase his 1RM as quickly as possible? I’d agree with you that it’s probably not.
However, that’s not what the OP said. They said that their bench press sucks and they want it to be stronger. And 110 x 20-30 is a whole hell of a lot stronger than 120 x 1.
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Yup. And from there, we just have to redevelop our skill with lifting heavier poundages.
But now we’re in a MUCH better place to do that. Especially when we consider the muscle we built from the assistance work in 5/3/1.
Yup. It’s almost like Jim had a plan all along…
Although
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Well i was hinting at joker sets.
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Yeah…I gathered that, haha. That’s what my comment was referring to.
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FWIW his 1rm is more like 135lb, so I was using that reference point. Could be semantics, but I think we have very different definitions of strength then. I consider 20-30 rep sets good muscular endurance and possibly even conditioning at that point, but not demonstrably stronger per se until he’s actually lifting more than 135lb in a set. And when he hasn’t been required to make the neurological adaptations necessary this early into lifting, it is VERY possible that he can barely hit 145lb for a rep at the same time.
Projected 1rm for 110x25 is 200lb, but there’s no chance in hell he’d be able to hit that if he never went over 135 for several months. He would however, be very efficient at lifting in the 110-125 range for many reps!
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Definitely disagree on the awesome part haha. I consider those days the low point of my training. My max barely budged, and after hitting so many reps on my AMRAP sets all my accessory work after suffered dramatically. Sets of 20+ feel much better suited for end of workout burn out for me now.
Today I think the 531 principles would serve me much better 15 years into lifting now. I actually recently ran a 16 week program with similar-ish principles that instead of 5/3/1 periodized the 3 sets of the main movement from lightest to heaviest from 15/12/10, 12/10/8, 10/8/6, 7/5/3, 6/4/2. I was pretty happy with the results.
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5/3/1 can be tricky to talk about.
It doesn’t really require strict adherence.
But the program has been around long enough that any problems a lifter might have with it have been exposed, worked through by a bunch of guinea pigs and “fixed.” Then written about.
So most questions can be answered by following the program.
It’s like circular.
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Machine learning 
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For awhile it was fun. We could complain directly to Wendler, daily, about every problem we had.
And he’d make smart ass replies and be dismissive.
But if somebody brought up a legitimate concern it would be fixed in the next book.
Like in modern 5/3/1 you can train for 6 weeks, then test yourself with a heavy set of 5 establish a new training max. That keeps the weights up and the reps down.
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This post is like 5 people speaking different languages and almost saying the same thing. LOL
Great patience all round through.
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