So according to you this jump in levels is not sufficient for 250mg enanthate?
It is supposed to be pharmaceutical, but it is illegally smuggled from Iran so too many variables. I learnt my lesson: no more test not bought from pharmacy. And even from the pharmacies in our part of the world you have some small risk of fakes and this is very frustrating
I donāt know about according to me, I donāt know for certain one way or the other.
However, based on labs I have seen from guys who mistakenly thought they should get them a day after their injection, instead of the day of or day previous, I would have expected total test to be about double (the lab result) what it was.
Another variable here is when enanthate should peak, I know it is relative but 48 hours should be relatively accurate for that, right?
Probably, maybe up to 72.
I know remember topics of guys on daily protocol. Some of them on 100-130mg weekly had peak levels at around 1500-1600 so I guess what I posted is for surely sign of underdosed material, except if the man has for some reason very low absorbtion, right?
Some more input on my things.
The Iranian Enanthate Iāve used a whole week is under-dosed I learned from an interesting source. I met a lady that is a steroid dealer, just got out of the prison in Spain. She said this Iran Hormone enanthate even if original is under-dosed, but otherwise good quality. Of course I dont know if I should trust her, but everything that happened with my test levels, the test levels of my friend who also used it and how I felt shitty one week after I stopped it makes sense.
Seems the Serbian pharma enanthate Iām using now is regarded as best quality if original. The lady said I made a wise choice to go there and get it from the pharmacy. I hope the chance to get fake in the pharmacy is really low. I see they have some stickers from the Serbian Health Ministry attached but here we can fake everything 
I also pay attention to their serial numbers when buying them, I know fakes often have repetative serial numbers.
It is a bit of adventure living in Eastern Europe in some regards
Looks like I gotta stop the HCG for at least some time.
Last week I realized feel sluggish at some point, then my old HCG run out and I couldnt find bact water for a few days.
I noticed my mood suddenly improved greatly after 2-3 days of no HCG, but libido dropped. However I havent reached yet the t levels at which I felt best with the last protocol, it turned out I need to incrase dose so it will take time to balance out. I was at 1000 total t last week and I have felt best at 1450. But as I said even at 1000 I felt better without HCG EXCEPT that libido suffered imediately, also quality of orgasm.
After that I got water, injected 100 UI HCG like Ive been doing since beginning of January and my libido exploded and sensitivity was awesome again, but mood and energy were trash the next day.
I found a guy in one TRT group who claims that you gotta cycle HCG, and overstimulating the glands all the time can cause issues. His clinic prescribes him to cycle it. He is something like 2 months on, one month OFF. But while he is off he thinks there is still HCG left in his system. And while he is on he is taking ONLY 20 UI 2 times per week! I couldnt believe such low dose can do something but he claim it does.
@dextermorgan @highpull I know your stance on HCG - to be taken only during time when fertility is needed right now. But seems when Im off it I suffer from some form of aorgasmia and decreased sexual pleasure. And it sucks big time. So how would you advise me to find my balance between getting these issues fix and not letting the HCG cause me unpleasant side effects?
Also a friend of mine here on TRT tried to follow the stance only t for 3 months, but his sexual part of things was horrible and he fixed it by adding HCG. His protocol was good, his t levels were quite decent and due to the fact he is low SHBG he had more than 30ng/dl calculated free t(this is what I felt best at as well).
It is very strange that my first two months that I was on the HCG I felt amazing, but now it seems to cause me issues. On the other hand my total t is still lower than it needs to be so raising it may improve things.
@highpull have you seen patients who get to feel good on HCG initially but start to get side effects at some point? What do you think is the cause for that? Another concern of mine - seems my nuts still work quite well and I would like to keep them in shape in way way or another.
Hope my post is not too confusing
Increase test would be my first thing. Decrease hCG to effect.
Very few, most cycle and do not take it indefinitely. Obviously, those that do, are fine with it.
Iām not really sure, sometimes I think it is estrogen. I also think as men, we donāt naturally have much hCG in our bodies, so jacking that up is not natural and must have some repercussion down the road, at some point.
I would try the minimum effective dose possible. Maybe try cycling it.
Hope this helps.
They cycle it because they feel bad all the time on it?
I read a theory it is not so much the estrogen but the over stimulating of the glands. I mean my estrogen was as high when I started the HCG but I felt awesome then. So seems should be something more
Probably cost, or they like it at certain times (summer), or use it temporarily for fertility.
Agreed.
He emphasizes only on dessintization as a side effect
Watch it again. He states that a majority of people cannot handle the side effects long term.
Yesterday I injected again 50ui.
A few days I could go without HCG but some point things down there got bad again, inability to orgasm and so on. HCG immediately fixes this problem, but Im a bit tired today
My test levels havent yet reached where they need to be. I hope when they rise I can find some minimal effective HCG dose and frequency that will cause me almost no side effects and give me the benefits I need
This was totally my situation. I tried 2 years on HCG and multiple dosages/schedules and the sides never really subsided after the early āhoneymoonā period. Edema and Cystic Acne on back being the major two. Did not matter where my E2 was on the scale I had these two ongoing battles. It did help with nut size and that is why I used it. Fast forward 6months after stopping HCG and I have no acne issues, no edema issues, but size decreased 1/4 yes. Orgasms and sensitivity have stayed relatively the same for me. Many respond differently. I wanted HCG to work and gave it every opportunity. Sometimes you have to evaluate symptoms with/without and decide what you can live with. I am better off without using it.
Hello. Something strange happens with my test levels
When I initially started TRT on 23.11.19 I started with 22.5mg sustanon daily sub-q. After 4 weeks I added 100 UI HCG. On week 6 Iāve tested 1156 total test and on week 10 - 1450. I felt awesome then except one thing - my sleep sucked and I was waking up every morning 5-6 AM underslept.
I decided this may be fixed If I try slower esters - cypionate and enanthate. Long story short for some reason I felt terrible on both esters, gave them enough time and decided to go back to sustanon. I felt slugish and low energy on them like shit even though my test levels reached decent numbers - around 1050 - 1100.
Now Iām doing THE SAME protocol like when I started TRT - 22.5mg sustanon daily sub-q. I know sustanoin is much slower than cypionate to build up in the system. After 1-2 weeks I started to feel better than with enan/cyp, but still not very optimal. On week 4 I was taking HCG 100 UI and my levels were 810. I felt the HCG is too much at least for this test level so decided to reduce it to 50 UI EOD and indeed energy improved. But still do not feel very good.
Today I tested total test on week 6 - 750 ! I was shocked why is it that low? I know HCG is less, but in the winter on the same protocol only that HCG was 100 UI daily(now is 50 UI EOD) my levels were 1156 .
@highpull why do you think is that big difference on the test levels? The testosterone is parmaceutical, branded, the same brand sustanon I used initially. Is it possible it is because Iāve gained 7-8 kg since I started TRT(50/50 muscle and fat)?
Also Im training very hard now 3 times a week hard strength protocol, is it possible this to be reducing my levels somehow?
Also is it possible something may have happened with my kidneys so they excrete testosterone faster? Since March I havent dont full blood work, next month maybe will do, but I want to reach decent levels first to invest in full blood work
I want to reach again 1300 at least. So now I will increase my dose to 27.5mg per day, any thoughts on that?
The only good thing is my sleep is good now - and this was the reason I messed my protocol initially. When I started TRT even before I reached high levels, like from day one I injected testosterone I started to wake up early. Now I sleep very good. Lets see if this will continue on higher levels.
I good question and I see this all the time. Just yesterday, a guy who has been running at 900-950 came back at 688. He could not feel any difference. Sometimes, it can be explained, usually not. Seeing some weird stuff with the COVID19 situation. People out of their normal routines, work, diet, training, stress, ETOH, etc. with various and multiple effects on our health.
Then you have a guy taking 200mg a week at 800 trough, and another at 150mg at 1000. We metabolize exogenous hormones differently. If we see such differences from one to another, maybe factors within the individual change from time to time as well?
I do believe that a lot of what is reported is associative and not causative. Patients going to the time, trouble and expense of HRT are doing so because of the way they feel. They end up spending a lot of time and energy focusing on how they are responding. As a result, sometimes, things not ordinarily noted are emphasized.
Sometimes, we have days that are just days when we are āoffā. Does not mean we are not āstableā (which I find almost laughable in some) or anything. Just one of those days. We see this all the time in physical endeavors. At times, when I was training and competing, Iād grab the bar for the first set and it would feel as though I was born with one in my hands. Other times, it would feel like Iāve never touched one.
Obviously, trends, like your sleep difficulty, need to be evaluated. Often, the issue go away as it came on, without explanation. Hope this rambling helps.
@highpull, @enackers, @systemlord It is strange.
So and so I was not optimized I decided to try the scrotal cream for 10 days. I know it has a very short half life, 12-14 hours so it should have built up quickly, right?
A friend of mine here ordered it before me and he feels great on it. When I started it initially I felt rush of energy but also a lot of anxiety and libido boost, errections were awesome. After 3-4 days I felt great for 2-3 days, but then anxiety got extreme and I felt constantly stressed out. I made blood work - total test and CBP and my total testosterone was in the toilet - 612. And I was doing a pretty good dose on the cream - 200mg daily. So it seems I just dont absorb it well? I though I might have used it mistakenly, but how can you mistake rubbing a cream on your balls? And the cream from this pharmacy in Greece - I know a lot of people in Europe who use it and are happy about it,
So Im back at the sustanon but higher dose this time - 27.5mg daily. Today was the fourth day I injected. Since I restarted it I feel like a shit. I guess my total test now is hovering around 600-700 and even the e2 causes me issues. Im injecting also 50 UI daily HCG and I dont plan to stop it. Just wanna get my total test at least to 1300 again and see how I feel.
But Im really bothered whether I will be able to optimize myself again. Like something got wrong in my body and Im not absorbing the testosteron as I should. Yes Iāve been changing protocols a lot the last months and I started that to fix my sleep. But I give every protocol at least six weeks to work and build up levels. And the issue is unlike other people who feel crappy but have blood work, I cannot even get my testosterone levels high. Im wondering whether they may have F*CKED up the testosterone Im using now and Iāve used when I started TRT(purely pharmaceutical branded sustanon) or something changed in my body.
Is it possible due to some mineral disbalance I have started to excrete testosterone really quickly?
When I started TRT with 22.5mg daily sub-q and 100 UI HCG I got my levels to 1450 total t. Is is possible for some reason sub-q stopped working for me when initially It worked great?
I also plan next time I test to make in the same day total test testing in two labs. Luckily they are next to each other. Ive been using this lab I still use for the last 3 years and results always made sense. And to be honest the crappy way I feel corresponds to this test values of 600-850. Just cannot understand why I cannot get it over a 1000 still with injections and even cream.
The only thing that works well for me is the gym. 1.5 months ago I hired a coach. We do 3 times weekly, only strength training base movements - deadlift, high bar back squat, push, pull. And my strength has been going up a lot, and workouts feel great. He says I need to build up strength before I can achieve hypertrophy If Im not gonna use high dose of anabolics. I know some people agree to that, some dont but at the moment I progress and feel good regarding the workouts. And this happens even with relatively crappy test levels of 600-850.