Yes, makes a lot thanks
This post should be read three times. Screw it⊠FOUR times!
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I thought I was feeling some benefits the first couple weeks too. Most of this was placebo, for sure. Especially the lift in mood and energy. I think when we start, we are so excited to feel better, and excited that we are actually doing something about it, that it makes us feel better. This hopeful mindset doesnât hurt in the gym either. The mind is a powerful thing! I do think some of what you feel early on is related to the testosterone, even after just a few days. Specifically the return morning wood and random erections. For me, that started to happen in the first couple weeks and it was very noticeable and exciting.
Now that Iâm a few months in I will tell you thisâŠ
The increased mood you feel from the excitement of taking your life and wellbeing into your own hands is nothing compared to the quiet confidence and peace that follows. I am just starting to really feel the benefits in this area.
The increased energy and strength you feel in the gym from the excitement of taking your life and wellbeing into your own hands is nothing compared to the feeling of putting actual muscle on for the first time in years. I felt the same thing you did in the gym my first week. Thatâs what hope feels like, but itâs nothing like real gains. Just wait, my friend. My workouts now are the best they have EVER been and getting better all the time.
The morning wood⊠only the beginning.
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Thanks, this sounds really reassuring.
The main reason I started TRT was not due to the worsened errections or lack of gym gains although Id like them to be fixed as well.
The main reason was the terrible brain fog that has definitely not lifted, anxiety, lack of motivation to do almost everything and feeling all the time frustrated, agitated and stressed from the smallest of thing.
In the mean time until this kicks in seems I need to try to focus less on the changing sensations in my body and focus on other things
The best things that come from TRT can take the longest to get. One you hit 6 months in youâll feel more of the pluses than at 3 months in. At 3 months in youâll feel much better than 1 month in. Hell at one year youâll look into the mirror and see a different guy.
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Exactly
At 6 months in i felt good.
9 months in wow.
10 months even better
1 year im hornier than when i started , obviously fitter and leaner, happier and just better overall.
Saying that TRT is per se not associated with any risks is against the current medical knowledge and misleading.
âResearchingâ requires at least a basic education in medicine or a related field to be able to understand the literature and an affiliation to any kind of research organisation to have access to the literature. Reading a biased selection of abstracts and extracting the information that fits to ones beliefs results exactly in what you say.
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@johann77
You would have a better argument if you listed the risks you are referring to.
I also think there are some risks with it that very much depend on how it is done and what is the health condition prior to starting.
If you put someone on a crappy protocol wouldnât that cause a risk? Of course it will
Also for example I think my father also is in dire need of more testosteroneâŠbut I dont think he can handle it. He is obese, on anti-depressants, had drinking problems, have kidney issues, blood clothing, high blood pressure and summer 2018 had ischemic attack. His lipids are terrible and he has clothing in some of the main blood vessels on the neck. Maybe he can start testosterone under the close supervision of an experienced trt doctorâŠthat we do not have in our country. Even more I do not live in the same city as him but even if I did I cannot play doctor risking his health and life advising him based on forums and so on.
For me some online consultations with specialists might be enough since I dont have yet real health issues, but obviously for him its very different
So as you can see sometimes TRT can be a risk
Yes, exactly. It depends on the individual situation and thatâs why generalized statements about the safety of TRT are inappropriate.
Take thrombotic events as an example: The largest meta analysis showed not statistically significant risk of TRT, although the OR was consistently higher than 1 in the sensitivity analysis. This simply means that most likely for the vast majority of men TRT does not increase the risk for developing thrombotic events, however for a subpopulation there is an increased risk. A study just recently published seems to confirm this. Another study just recently published suggests that even for healthy men a small increase in risk for developing thrombotic events within the first 6 months of initiation exists.
Limitations of an analysis or of a study are discussed in essentially every publication, but one needs to read and understand the entire thing and not just the results part of the abstract.
Any medical intervention poses risks and benefits and it comes down to making an individualized decision.
I hear you. My brain fog was almost debilitating. I was convinced I was heading to Alzheimerâs. Totally gone now.
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I find it interesting that you claim that what I said is misleading yet all the studies youâve posted are associative studies and not interventions studies. Do you know what the difference is? There is not a single interventional study out there demonstration testosterone causing harm. This is confirmed by the actual researchers I deal with and not just friends of mine on TRT forums. In every single interventional in existence when they gave testosterone, the men improved.
For this of you who do not know the difference between an associate study (which is utterly useless and misleading as posted above) and an interventional study, here is me explaining it in very simple terms. Te relevant bit starts at the 10 minute mark.
With 15 years of education in science and 20 years of research in drug discovery I do know the different study designs.
Do read this carefully, maybe twice or three times, read the studies that I linked above and then think about your statements again.
By the way there are two types of clinical studies, intervention studies and observation studies. Measure of association are determined in both types of studies.
What was the state of health of these men? Obese men with cardiovascular disease and diabetes? Or were they healthy men with a testosterone deficiency? If an obese man with cardiovascular disease and diabetes suddenly starts getting his testosterone levels raised, which leads to increased energy and libido, and he starts having sex again as well I start exercising again, it may just will be too much too fast and they wind up having a cardiovascular event. In this case it is not the testosterone causing the cardiovascular event. This is something we see frequently in these studies. This is why it is always preferable to have an Interventional study done on a group of relatively healthy men with a testosterone deficiency and in every one of those studies, would we give these men testosterone, they improve.
Here I tend to agree with @dbossa associations many time do not mean anything. You need to intervene to prove something. However for TRT there is lack of enough long-term interventional studies
Thatâs how I feel about it, too â there may well be an increased risk for a subpopulation, but none of the existing literature offers a compelling case demonstrating as much. Maybe something will come out that changes that, but probably not.
I started TRT at 27 â some will tell you thatâs too young â but only after weighing the pros and cons and doing research for years.
To me, the pros outweighed any potential cons even then. Now, after experiencing the before/after effects, I can say without a doubt that I have zero regrets â even if by some stroke of fate, I die a few years earlier, my years of life will have been so much more enjoyable and valuable to society.
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Yes quality of life is more important than quantity. What does longevity of life matter if it feels like shit?
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For real. If youâre a shadow of yourself for 80 years or the best version of yourself for 70, which would you choose? Iâd take the latter 100% of the time and would guess most others would agree.
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100% agreed if this is a conscious decision based on the knowledge that there might be risks.
But this is something completely different to the statement that TRT does not have any side effects and every study which indicates that there might be risks is flawed.
And we donât have any properly designed prospective long term study at hand that showed TRT is safe long term. This alone causes residual uncertainty and and should lead to caution.
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