Havn’t studies shown that Vitex agnus-castus, an ingredient in M, lowers Testosterone in males?.. Is it true that this herb has been used as an anti-aphrodisiac? This is what I’ve been seeing on some other websites… anyone out there wanna explain what’s different about the one in M?
[quote]StrongrThanDeth wrote:
Haven’t studies shown that Vitex agnus-castus, an ingredient in M, lowers Testosterone in males?.. Is it true that this herb has been used as an anti-aphrodisiac? This is what I’ve been seeing on some other websites… anyone out there wanna explain what’s different about the one in M?[/quote]
I have seen no studies which have shown a decrease in testosterone with vitex use in males. If there were such a study, it sure would be nice to see it.
The only thing I’ve seen reported in the literature, to the contrary, is an increase in LH.
Last, it’s important to keep in mind that the vitex extract used contains high concentrations of a very specific group of compounds.
For example, let’s say you have compound A, which has biological activity and in fact, increases testosterone. You also have other compounds in the plant which are either inactive or perhaps even have the opposite effect. The obvious key, is to then use an extraction method which allows for a high yield of compound A and little, if any, of the other compounds.
I think I was referring to this Evaluation of estrogenic activity of plant extracts for the potential treatment of menopausal symptoms - PubMed
I’m not asserting that it is estrogenic, I’m asking what this means…
[quote]StrongrThanDeth wrote:
I think I was referring to this Evaluation of estrogenic activity of plant extracts for the potential treatment of menopausal symptoms - PubMed
I’m not asserting that it is estrogenic, I’m asking what this means…[/quote]
It means that estrogenic in WOMEN. Doesn’t say anything about its effects in MEN, which are (the effects) very different.
[quote]StrongrThanDeth wrote:
I think I was referring to this Evaluation of estrogenic activity of plant extracts for the potential treatment of menopausal symptoms - PubMed
I’m not asserting that it is estrogenic, I’m asking what this means…[/quote]
I’ve gone over a question similar to this before. I’ll paste my response below. As for the abstract you’ve linked, specifically, the avid binding, yet lack of alkaline phosphatase expression, indicates estrogen antagonist activity.
Posted Previously:
Key points to be made. First, it’s a very specific mix of phytochemicals which are used from vitex, so it’s not the classical extract one would typically find.
Secondly, one of the compounds therein may lower prolactin, and thus heighten the response of the testicles to LH, amongst other potential benefits from decreasing prolactin.
Last, I haven’t seen any data that the specific compounds isolated and used in the Biotest product, have been shown to both bind avidly to the ER alpha subtype AND activate transcription to any significant degree.
I have been wondering about this myself.
I work with a group of naturopaths (in Aus this is a very well taught and regulated industry which is trying hard to separate itself from the quacks - the crystal healers if you will), now their views are not usually based on empirical studies but anecdotal evidence collected in some cases over centuries of indigenous herbal medicine, I believe vitex was first written about in 450bc and has been used by herbal med for even longer.
The naturopaths I have spoken to (I have asked about five of them most of which were taught under different curriculum’s in different colleges) all believe that vitex should be used in cases where the condition is related to T being too high, they point to it use over the centuries to this effect; androgen inhibition (1), using it to reduce sexual desire in women and monks (vitex a.k.a. the chaste tree and monks pepper), acne treatment (2), etc.
Clinical trials have also shown vitex administration to increase prolactin secretion in men and decrease it in women (3), hyperprolactininemia is one of the most common causes of loss of sex drive in men. When trying to diagnose low T levels in men you look for elevated levels of prolactin (4,5).
I realise the vitex stimulates the production of LH and thus the leydig cells but there are also other factors to be hormonal considered before supplementation.
Does the level of level of leydig stimulation overide any other factors at play? Why, with its effect on the levels of prolactin would vitex be included in a ‘post cycle’ supp? Is there something I am missing in the relationship between endogenous prolactin, LH and testicular regulation in healthy men as opposed to the stimulation of prolactin production by supplementation of this type?
Cy (or anyone else) sorry to be a pain, I would be grateful for any links or suggested reading.
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Antitumor activity of herbal supplements in human prostate cancer xenografts implanted in immunodeficient mice.
Anticancer Res. 2003 Sep-Oct;23(5A):3585-90. Ng SS, Figg WD.
Molecular Pharmacology Section, Cancer Therapeutics Branch, Center for Cancer Research, National Cancer Institute, National Institute of Health, 9000 Rockville Pike, Bethesda, MD -
Z Allgemeinmed. 1975 Dec 20;51(35):1645-8.
3)Exp Clin Endocrinol Diabetes. 1996;104(6):447-53.
The effects of a special Agnus castus extract (BP1095E1) on prolactin secretion in healthy male subjects.
Merz PG, Gorkow C, Schrodter A, Rietbrock S, Sieder C, Loew D, Dericks-Tan JS, Taubert HD.
4)Dr Wayne Hellstrom MD, Digital Urology Journal.
- J Sex Marital Ther. 1983 Spring;9(1):19-26.
Serum testosterone and prolactin levels in erectile dysfunction.
Segraves RT, Schoenberg HW, Ivanoff J.
Apologies Cy, I hadn’t refreshed the screen in hours before starting my post so I had no seen your reply above.
Any suggested reading on vitex you have would still be gratefully received.
[quote]Drewsky wrote:
Apologies Cy, I hadn’t refreshed the screen in hours before starting my post so I had no seen your reply above.
Any suggested reading on vitex you have would still be gratefully received.
[/quote]
The data available suggests an estrogen antagonist effect and contrary to what the document pasted had cited, DECREASED prolactin in men. In that Merz et al, 1996 study, they found that there was a dose-dependent effect upon prolactin…that is, in this case, taking 120 mg and 240 mg/day increased it, while taking 480 mg decreased it. I believe Loew, et al., found something similar. Milewicz et al, 1993, found that it decreased prolactin levels as did Lauritzen et al, 1997. So, the preponderance of data suggests a decrease, so that should help answer your main questions. Secondly, it may increase the responsiveness of the testicles to LH. Last, I’ve listed the studies you’ll want to look in to.
Jarry H, Leonhardt S, Gorkow C et al: In vitro prolactin but not LH and FSH release is inhibited by compounds in extracts of Agnus castus: direct evidence for a dopaminergic principle by the dopamine receptor assay. Exp Clin Endocrinol 1994; 102(6):448-452.
Loew D, Gorkow C, Schroedter A et al: Zur dosisabhaengigen Vertraeglichkeit eines Agnus-castus-Spezialextraktes. Z Phytother 1996; 17(4):237-243.
Merz PG, Gorkow C, Schroedter A et al: The effects of a special Agnus castus extract (BP1095E1) on prolactin secretion in healthy male subjects. Exp Clin Endocrinol Diabetes 1996; 104(6):447-453.
Milewicz A, Gejdel E, Sworen H et al: Vitex agnus castus-Extrakt zur Behandlung von Regeltempoanomalien infolge latenter Hyperprolaktinamie. Ergebnisse einer randomisierten Plazebo-kontrollierten Doppelblindstudie. Arzneim-Forsch 1993; 43(7):752-756.
Lauritzen CH, Reuter HD, Repges R et al: Treatment of premenstrual tension syndrome with Vitex agnus castus. Controlled, double-blind study versus pyridoxine. Phytomedicine 1997; 4(3):183-189.
Cheers Cy,
Drew